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'Fix Society': Transgender Teen Posted Plea Before Suicide

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posted on Jan, 2 2015 @ 06:33 AM
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originally posted by: Pinke

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
No, I'm not going to pity transgender kids.
There's nothing wrong with them except for possibly a case of denying physical reality.
The media is trying to push one more group for protected status as victims in our society.

At what point does a transgender person's abuse become real for you and compassion actually happen?

Locked in the basement? Sprayed with a hose? Denied by their parents? Neatly committed suicide in a self disposable blender? Where is that line where your compassion actually kicks in? Even if we accept your statement that the only thing wrong is a disconnect with physical reality, would you support the abuse of a schizophrenic?
On a side note, many transgender people are actually intersexed as in their condition is immediately physically evident from birth. They often have the same issues as transsexual people. Are they more or less deserving of compassion? Or perhaps in the same bracket.


I must have missed the part about being locked in a basement and sprayed with a hose. I often will take the side in a debate that's not very popular and I really think what he did was cowardly and vicious. There was no need to involve an innocent person in his death and leaving a note that blames his parents and the world is hardly a testimony of love and forgiveness.

Do you think his parents were wrong to seek Christian counseling? It's what they know and believe in and what they tried to use to help they child they loved. Transgender teens are ALWAYS going to be outcasts, the same as any other very small minority group who act counter to what popular culture deems as "normal".

I have plenty of compassion but since everyone is falling over themselves to give it to Joshua I thought I would point out the true victim in this story is the truck driver. Why are they forced to live with knowing they ran over this kid? I'm sure they saw his mangled body too - nice memory for Joshua to leave them with.

Both the content and the way this story is written is to push empathy for transgender people and blame society for their ills. At no point does any make Joshua take responsibility for his feelings or actions - it's society's fault somehow for having norms.

I have been an oddball all my life so I know what rejection is like. I even used to cross-dress at parties and that was way back in the early 70's in a small, Southern town where you don't do that kind of thing. My point being if you want to be that different you have to expect backlash and deal with it. Everybody is sorry Joshua couldn't deal with it, fine I get that but I think he would have killed himself even if he wasn't transgender - some people are always looking for others to blame and I think he was one of them. There are some who always want to believe they are being victimized to justify their anger.

What concerns me most is why the media is putting the spin they are on this story. "Fix society?" What's broken? Once again they are making another group "victims". Because if we're all victims then we all need protecting, don't we? Just look at how ludicrous England has become with their PC speech laws - people are being put in jail for saying things "Jews are mostly attracted to money" or "Islam is a religion of hate". This story is one more step towards that same type of legislation that will further strangle whatever shreds of freedom we have left.




posted on Jan, 2 2015 @ 06:45 AM
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originally posted by: Soloprotocol
Yeah, Killing yourself is the answer...How Selfish.


I hear ya.. Killing yourself and blaming someone else is worse. The kid really ripped into his parents and blamed them for him making a decision to step out in front of a truck. How does the truck driver feel now? I feel sympathy for the parents and that truck driver. He or she now has to live with that image.

Not so much sympathy for selfish acts of cowardice and the kid was a selfish lowlife coward.



posted on Jan, 2 2015 @ 06:50 AM
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>>
She came out to her parents, who took her to Christian therapists (...)
>>

Big surprise there...didn't even need to read the entire story to guess there is some so called "religious" folks involved.

Guess the "devout Christian parents" and their priest failed to drive out those pesky "demons"...SARCASM...

You cannot "change sexual orientation"...respective there is no NEED to "change sexual orientation".

The girl was of course right...society needs to change...not individual people, whether they are trans, gay, straight etc. to "change" so as to conform to society.



posted on Jan, 2 2015 @ 06:57 AM
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OK guys and gals...logic only zone here!

I feel bad that this specific situation happened. There are many people and beliefs to blame including religion and therapy is not necessiarily the solution.

However...the problem isn't so much society...at least not a problem that can be fixed. The problem is we are raising a generation unable to confront and deal with differences that are not "acceptable" to everyone. We can't change people who believe "it is just in their heads" and that "it is fixable". PERIOD!!! What we need to do is start raising our kids to be equipt to deal with this and regardless of what others say or think...mow on through...successfully.

So you are black, gay, transgender, ugly, fat, handicapped...whatever. Be who and what you are. Embrace who and what you are and get used to it. It is there forever (in many cases). But we don't teach and preach that. We say "oh...you need assistance", "you will always be looked down upon", etc. We treat these issues like they are a PROBLEM and the kids follow suit and BELIEVE they are a problem. No wonder they sometimes kill themselves. Teach them to have thicker skin and know that the opinions of others are not weapons against them.

Lets start with a simple lesson. If you are not happy in your own skin, with who and what you are...you have two choices. Change, or learn to love yourself. WE DON'T TEACH THAT! We teach "some won't like you...go out and protest" (for example). And when I say we...I don't mean just/only parents. The GROUPS that support these genres of people USE THEM without regard for the effect upon them. The GROUPS preach that "you will always be bad in some people's eyes" instead of "hey...ignore them and love yourself". Why? The GROUPS have agendas and goals and believe their "cause" is more important than the individual.

"Teach your children well"...old line from a song. It is family and friends that support an individual...not groups. Love your children regardless who and what they are, or believe they are. I understand the desire of a parent to have life be perfect for your child. It won't be perfect. But help fix the things that you can fix...not the ones that are part of what makes your child unique.



posted on Jan, 2 2015 @ 07:03 AM
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originally posted by: NoRulesAllowed
>>
She came out to her parents, who took her to Christian therapists (...)
>>

Big surprise there...didn't even need to read the entire story to guess there is some so called "religious" folks involved.

Guess the "devout Christian parents" and their priest failed to drive out those pesky "demons"...SARCASM...

You cannot "change sexual orientation"...respective there is no NEED to "change sexual orientation".

The girl was of course right...society needs to change...not individual people, whether they are trans, gay, straight etc. to "change" so as to conform to society.


So let me get this right. Her parents should have accepted her for who she was and her beliefs about herself. But you attack who they are and their beliefs? If you want utopia...you can't pick and choose. If you want everyone to accept everyone regardless of who they are and what they do, you have to preach it also. But...and I'm not saying this to attack you, but to make a point...if you are going to choose what is acceptable for EVERYONE...you are no different than her parents. I should be free to believe what I want to believe...right? But that can't be restricted by what YOU believe is not OK to believe. If a child can believe they are a different sex, than a parent can believe in a God that doesn't want that to happen.

Yes...I know it is a huge mess, but please don't try to decide what is OK and not OK to believe.



posted on Jan, 2 2015 @ 09:05 AM
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a reply to: Jamie1

Well said. Though it might seem insensitive to people who cannot feel happy because of some messed up brain chemistry.

Happiness is a state of mind. I say this because the simplest example I can think of is : one person half full cup is another's half empty cup.

But sometimes. You have to weigh other people's feeling before being happy. Sometimes your choice hurts a lot of people more than youre feelings of being hurt, like suicide. And sometimes you gotta bear that pain for others because being selfless is an infinite times more rewarding than being selfish. I mean many things we enjoy are because many people made selfless sacrifices than selfish choices. Selfish choices may benefit you while crushing many around you and while we may think we don't really matter we do. We are all connected.
edit on 2-1-2015 by Dryad2 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 2 2015 @ 09:20 AM
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a reply to: Jamie1




The answer is much easier. It's being aware that you can be happy no matter what the external situation. In each moment, we all have the power to be happy, now, no matter what's happened in our past or in our lives.


I agree, but you have no idea how hard that is for me



posted on Jan, 2 2015 @ 09:57 AM
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originally posted by: Stormdancer777
a reply to: Jamie1




The answer is much easier. It's being aware that you can be happy no matter what the external situation. In each moment, we all have the power to be happy, now, no matter what's happened in our past or in our lives.


I agree, but you have no idea how hard that is for me


Exactly! It took me about 50 years to get to that point.

Then I had to put it in to practice.
edit on 2-1-2015 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 2 2015 @ 10:07 AM
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a reply to: Dryad2

I said this during the Robin Williams threads and I'll say it here: sometimes, you have to be unselfish enough to let someone go who is hurting enough to want to leave this world.

If I had a loved one who was hurting so bad every single day of their life, be it physical, emotional, mental or a combination of all, that they were desperate to put an end to it, I would tell them it's okay to leave. I would tell them that I will miss them and it may be hard for me, but I am strong enough to bear it. I will be unselfish enough to bear whatever pain I have to in order to set them free from theirs.



posted on Jan, 2 2015 @ 10:07 AM
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originally posted by: Asktheanimals

originally posted by: Pinke

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
No, I'm not going to pity transgender kids.
There's nothing wrong with them except for possibly a case of denying physical reality.
The media is trying to push one more group for protected status as victims in our society.

At what point does a transgender person's abuse become real for you and compassion actually happen?

Locked in the basement? Sprayed with a hose? Denied by their parents? Neatly committed suicide in a self disposable blender? Where is that line where your compassion actually kicks in? Even if we accept your statement that the only thing wrong is a disconnect with physical reality, would you support the abuse of a schizophrenic?
On a side note, many transgender people are actually intersexed as in their condition is immediately physically evident from birth. They often have the same issues as transsexual people. Are they more or less deserving of compassion? Or perhaps in the same bracket.


I must have missed the part about being locked in a basement and sprayed with a hose. I often will take the side in a debate that's not very popular and I really think what he did was cowardly and vicious. There was no need to involve an innocent person in his death and leaving a note that blames his parents and the world is hardly a testimony of love and forgiveness.

Do you think his parents were wrong to seek Christian counseling? It's what they know and believe in and what they tried to use to help they child they loved. Transgender teens are ALWAYS going to be outcasts, the same as any other very small minority group who act counter to what popular culture deems as "normal".

I have plenty of compassion but since everyone is falling over themselves to give it to Joshua I thought I would point out the true victim in this story is the truck driver. Why are they forced to live with knowing they ran over this kid? I'm sure they saw his mangled body too - nice memory for Joshua to leave them with.

Both the content and the way this story is written is to push empathy for transgender people and blame society for their ills. At no point does any make Joshua take responsibility for his feelings or actions - it's society's fault somehow for having norms.

I have been an oddball all my life so I know what rejection is like. I even used to cross-dress at parties and that was way back in the early 70's in a small, Southern town where you don't do that kind of thing. My point being if you want to be that different you have to expect backlash and deal with it. Everybody is sorry Joshua couldn't deal with it, fine I get that but I think he would have killed himself even if he wasn't transgender - some people are always looking for others to blame and I think he was one of them. There are some who always want to believe they are being victimized to justify their anger.

What concerns me most is why the media is putting the spin they are on this story. "Fix society?" What's broken? Once again they are making another group "victims". Because if we're all victims then we all need protecting, don't we? Just look at how ludicrous England has become with their PC speech laws - people are being put in jail for saying things "Jews are mostly attracted to money" or "Islam is a religion of hate". This story is one more step towards that same type of legislation that will further strangle whatever shreds of freedom we have left.


I agree with ALOT of what you said... But I do think taking him/her to a Christian theropist was wrong and potinially abusive and dangerous. We all know the Christian church's policy on such things, the parents had to know as well. A Christian therapist is NOT a real medical professional! It's like taking your sick child to a faith healer... Ridiculous!


That said I think there is little said about the fact that transgendered ness medically would probubally be a mental illness. I mean come on. A female brain wireing in a male body!!! A brain wired to get hormones it needs in levels it's not getting and getting way too much testosterone instead. That undenighable would potentially cause serious mental problems.

Maybe I'm not understanding transgendered people. It is different from being a guy who is a guy but attracted to men right? It's actually a the "brain" of a woman born in a mans body right.



posted on Jan, 2 2015 @ 10:08 AM
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For a child to become this confused at such an early age is a definite indication that there is something seriously wrong with this society. At least the parents did not encourage the mental break down by saying that it is normal or that it is a lifestyle choice or some nonsense like that.

They probably should have got a better therapist though, one that the kid could trust so that the kid would entrust the details of his molestation or whatever trauma caused the breakdown. There are many out there that would rather coach the confused child into believing or saying that a 4 year old can feel like a girl.

4 year olds have very few real male or female characteristics mentally or emotionally except the ones that they have learned through their very little life experience. To wonder what it is like to be the opposite sex is rather normal I suppose, but to be led to believe that one feels or felt like or is the opposite sex is crazy.

How does he know what a 4 year old girl feels like? Who or what would make him believe that his feelings and thoughts are are not those of a boy?

This kid needed help. The first step would have been to have him stop watching the propaganda box and listening to the propaganda music. Remove him from the public propaganda indoctrination system also. These things alone would make a huge difference.

And definitely get him off of facebook and the internet.

edit on 2-1-2015 by johnnyBgood because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-1-2015 by johnnyBgood because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 2 2015 @ 10:12 AM
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originally posted by: Stormdancer777
a reply to: Jamie1




The answer is much easier. It's being aware that you can be happy no matter what the external situation. In each moment, we all have the power to be happy, now, no matter what's happened in our past or in our lives.


I agree, but you have no idea how hard that is for me


Agreed and something no girlfriend I've ever had could process lol. No one MAKES you feel anyway. I can't make my GF feel good or bad. I can do things to improve or hurt her life, but how she feels about them are up to her 100%.



posted on Jan, 2 2015 @ 10:21 AM
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originally posted by: johnnyBgood
For a child to become this confused at such an early age is a definite indication that there is something seriously wrong with this society. At least the parents did not encourage the mental break down by saying that it is normal or that it is a lifestyle choice or some nonsense like that.

They probably should have got a better therapist though, one that the kid could trust so that the kid would entrust the details of his molestation or whatever trauma caused the breakdown. There are many out there that would rather coach the confused child into believing or saying that a 4 year old can feel like a girl.

4 year olds have very few real male or female characteristics mentally or emotionally except the ones that they have learned through their very little life experience. To wonder what it is like to be the opposite sex is rather normal I suppose, but to be led to believe that one feels or felt like or is the opposite sex is crazy.

How does he know what a 4 year old girl feels like? Who or what would make him believe that his feelings and thoughts are are not those of a boy?

This kid needed help. The first step would have been to have him stop watching the propaganda box and listening to the propaganda music. Remove him from the public propaganda indoctrination system also. These things alone would make a huge difference.

And definitely get him off of facebook and the internet.



I'm quite sure they are born wired differently. I had a good friend and coworker who's some was obviously born far more feminen then your average kid. The kid couldn't have had more normal grandparents and parents. There was no one to infuse a gay life style even around the kid. But at 5 there was no doubt the kid was gonna grow up gay. If not transgendeted....the kid wasn't abused. Mom was your average Modern woman, dad your average football lovin dude. What ever made the kid ridiculously feminine was all his own.



posted on Jan, 2 2015 @ 10:53 AM
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The kid would probably still be alive if he had never heard of "transgender".



posted on Jan, 2 2015 @ 11:06 AM
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originally posted by: ItCameFromOuterSpace
The kid would probably still be alive if he had never heard of "transgender".


No, the kid would probably still be alive if no one had ever heard of being "weird" or "different". If someone was always a welcome member of society no matter what they looked like or what they wore or how they acted, as long as they weren't hurting anyone. Then the kid would not only still be alive, the kid would even be happy.



posted on Jan, 2 2015 @ 11:12 AM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
a reply to: Jamie1




The answer is much easier. It's being aware that you can be happy no matter what the external situation. In each moment, we all have the power to be happy, now, no matter what's happened in our past or in our lives.


I agree, but you have no idea how hard that is for me


Exactly! It took me about 50 years to get to that point.

Then I had to put it in to practice.


Yes, I am the obsessive compulsive worry wart agoraphobic who has panic and anxiety disorder since 1981, been seeing the same psychiatrist so long that now we have reversed roles.
ha



posted on Jan, 2 2015 @ 11:15 AM
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originally posted by: Entreri06
Maybe I'm not understanding transgendered people. It is different from being a guy who is a guy but attracted to men right? It's actually a the "brain" of a woman born in a mans body right.


Yes. That is what Transgender is.

Female in every way, but the wrapping. Physical/chemical makeup of the brain (as far as science knows at this time).

Not a choice, not a mental illness.



posted on Jan, 2 2015 @ 11:27 AM
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originally posted by: Stormdancer777

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
a reply to: Jamie1




The answer is much easier. It's being aware that you can be happy no matter what the external situation. In each moment, we all have the power to be happy, now, no matter what's happened in our past or in our lives.


I agree, but you have no idea how hard that is for me


Exactly! It took me about 50 years to get to that point.

Then I had to put it in to practice.


Yes, I am the obsessive compulsive worry wart agoraphobic who has panic and anxiety disorder since 1981, been seeing the same psychiatrist so long that now we have reversed roles.
ha


I had to figure it out all on my own. Never had the funds for a psychiatrist. Had an odd physical structural birth defect that no one figured out until I was 50. Just never stopped fighting to be strong and healthy.

Being raised in Power of Positive Thought probably helped.



posted on Jan, 2 2015 @ 11:39 AM
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a reply to: Galadriel

You raise a valid, and not at all uninteresting, point, but if you have depression, your happiness, actions, hopes, etc are still your own responsibility as others have mentioned.

It's not an easy thing to live with (especially over 15-20 years as in my case). In fact the easy choice is just living with depression as opposed to taking the hard route which is trying to conquer it. Depression, as you say, is a chemical imbalance which feeds in to the cyclical process of thinking, doing, feeling, etc. The chemical imbalance doesn't necessarily come first though - you can get in to a bad cycle of feeling down, long enough for the lack of happiness to lead to an imbalance of serotonin/dopamine.

You are right though, there is some hate on this thread, but I am with a lot of the folks who say that suicide is selfish, and someone with depression is entirely responsible for their actions.

I think a lot of people on ATS forget what it's like to be a teenager though. Back then you don't know a lot about the world, you don't understand how things work. She was a child, and had no real hope of getting better without some professional help - of course, her churchy parents wouldn't entertain that idea for a second and it led to their daughter feeling like she had no option except suicide - tragic.

Very sad story indeed. Poor girl
edit on 2-1-2015 by Thundersmurf because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 2 2015 @ 11:41 AM
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"Fix society".

Unfortunately she didn't stick around to help us do that, except by making the supreme sacrifice.

It's a sad story. I don't know the parents' story but I know that often parents, in situations much less testing than this one, fail to consider that children are people too, not chattel, not lawn ornaments, not home movie extras, not vehicles for parental ambitions, not always convenient or conventional.

When gay children, or children with gender identity issues "come out", they "out" their parents too. There is more involved than simply acknowledging the reality of a child's nature. Everyone in the family will be making an adjustment that at this time in history, is non-trivial. Everyone is challenged by such situations. Everyone deserves some consideration.

Maybe when society is "fixed", adjustments of this sort will, finally, become, if not trivial, at least part of what we include in "normal".







 
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