Happy New year for Goldman fat cats!

originally posted by: Jamie1
That said, I'm not going to sit here typing on my $600 laptop, checking my iPhone for text messages, watch 300 channels on my flat screen television, book $300 plane tickets to Mexico and choose from hundreds of hotels in 30 seconds, and then whine and complain about how unfair life is because somebody else got a $3 million bonus.
I'm grateful for all that I have the benefit of enjoying, and all the opportunities I have. I choose gratitude over bitching every time my friend.

If tapping a computer keyboard, staring at lots of screens and flying to Mexico makes you happy, that's allright with me. Actually, I'm here tapping and staring and I'm quite happy. But I'm not happy because I have a high value top of the bill computer - it's just an utensil, a thing, nothing else.

I'm happy because I can have a virtual conversation with you. My computers are all quite old, most of them were given to me by people that wanted to throw them away (!). I will only replace my systems if they break down - and even then, I'd rather replace parts than buy a new one. But it gives me the same pleasure you have from your expensive laptop.

The value you give to these items is just a number. That number SHOULD indicate how much labour and raw materials went into the item. Now, take another look at the laptop - a bit of plastic, some silicium, some gold - I think it's safe to say that its real value is roughly 70 units, instead of 600. So, where did the other 530 units go? Well, they went into the pockets of profit making retailers whom do not add anything to the value of your laptop. "Just a functional small profit", mind you, so they can keep their business alive ... and that's just a plain ole' standard off the shelf laptop. Let's not even start to discuss the absurdity of Apple computers and Apple IPhones.

Also, the price of raw materials is actually far less than the 70 bucks I refer to above: in fact it can be reduced to the price of labour. Our planet provides plenty of raw resources - for free. It's not like nature does what bankers do; there is no rock to which you have to give gold to allow you to dig up other rocks.

a reply to: Jamie1

I will bitch and moan when a good percentages of my tax money over the past decade has gone into paying off other peoples mistakes in the financial sector, especially when the government wont be there for me if I make a mistake and my business fails.


My business fails = I end up on my own with assets seized to pay debt

Bank fails = I have to pay for there mistake in taxes and bankers carry on getting million


Still failing to see what is right with the above.....


O and my laptop is $2000 if we are going to have a pissing contest on who has the shinny things.

originally posted by: Jamie1

originally posted by: bobs_uruncle

originally posted by: Jamie1

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: Jamie1


Would you prefer they give out their money to those who don't work for them?

Do you think these people actually do work that is actually worth what they are being paid? This just shows how these bankers are screwing the people over.

Of course they deserve the money. Money doesn't end up in their bank account by luck. Other people and organizations put it there on their own free will. The money had to come from somewhere, right?

Do you have any evidence they screwed anybody over, is it that you've just been brainwashed and don't understand how investment banks work?

You really have no clue as to how money generation (fiat currency) works, do you? The money is created out of thin air as a debt, it's a negative instrument. Think on this for a second, the total world gross yearly product is about 70 trillion dollars and yet the total world debt is about 700 trillion dollars. Do a bit of research.

The entire thing is a ponzi scheme and confidence game. The lot of them should be hung.

Cheers - Dave

lol, yes, I understand how the fiat money system works. It's financed technological and economic growth beyond anything a commodity based system could have done. Do you really think all the technological advancements would have been possible if we were still using the gold standard?

Yes, I do think it would have happened on a gold standard. Technological advance and corruption do not need to go hand in hand and to propose that they do seems to imply a non-existent ethical standard (and that's forgetting about any moral standard). By extension you imply that excessive usury (it is attached to everything, even the creation of debt based fiat currency) is some benefit to society LOL.

As I said, criminal bankers need to be hung ;-) Maybe this year, we can always hope, right?

Cheers - Dave

originally posted by: Jamie1

originally posted by: bobs_uruncle

originally posted by: Jamie1

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: Jamie1


Would you prefer they give out their money to those who don't work for them?

Do you think these people actually do work that is actually worth what they are being paid? This just shows how these bankers are screwing the people over.

Of course they deserve the money. Money doesn't end up in their bank account by luck. Other people and organizations put it there on their own free will. The money had to come from somewhere, right?

Do you have any evidence they screwed anybody over, is it that you've just been brainwashed and don't understand how investment banks work?

You really have no clue as to how money generation (fiat currency) works, do you? The money is created out of thin air as a debt, it's a negative instrument. Think on this for a second, the total world gross yearly product is about 70 trillion dollars and yet the total world debt is about 700 trillion dollars. Do a bit of research.

The entire thing is a ponzi scheme and confidence game. The lot of them should be hung.

Cheers - Dave

lol, yes, I understand how the fiat money system works. It's financed technological and economic growth beyond anything a commodity based system could have done. Do you really think all the technological advancements would have been possible if we were still using the gold standard?

Yes, I do think it would have happened on a gold standard. Technological advance and corruption do not need to go hand in hand and to propose that they do seems to imply a non-existent ethical standard (and that's forgetting about any moral standard). By extension you imply that excessive usury (it is attached to everything, even the creation of debt based fiat currency) is some benefit to society LOL.

As I said, criminal bankers need to be hung ;-) Maybe this year, we can always hope, right?

Cheers - Dave

Considering I have experience in banking and finance, with a B.A in Finance and series 7. I can sure you all these people are good at are forecasting fake numbers into bigger fake numbers. It's really not difficult, anyone can do this. These are people however who were at the right places in life at the right time. Networked with the right people to earn these spots. Is it rediculous and unfair? Maybe, but you can always go to school get your license and work in cold call investment centers to work your way to the top like they did. It's not like these are kids out of college that Goldman went up to and said, hey can we pay you $500 mil a year to handle our portfolio? These companies have trillions on the books, so paying someone a small portion of the huge amounts they earned the company is worth it for the company to retain these brokers in their firms. Let's not forget some of those jobs can be pretty stressful. How many of these execs jumped off buildings in 2014? As we say in Finance, the higher the risk, the higher the reward. Those slogan applies to both professional and personal matters.

originally posted by: Emerys
Considering I have experience in banking and finance, with a B.A in Finance and series 7. I can sure you all these people are good at are forecasting fake numbers into bigger fake numbers.

Given your academic background and my daily experience I tend to believe you

It's really not difficult, anyone can do this. These are people however who were at the right places in life at the right time. Networked with the right people to earn these spots.

That's exactly the problem: it's not a matter of what you know and what you might give that makes you a big shot in those circles. It's WHOM you know and what you can TAKE. The gang of mobsters will select their novices carefully.

If you ask stupid questions they won't like it. Because the answer to these questions would invariably be "because we take, boy - we don't give. We make a decent profit."

Is it rediculous and unfair?

Mostly.

Maybe, but you can always go to school get your license and work in cold call investment centers to work your way to the top like they did.

Wrong. Firstly, many poor people are raised in social circles that accept, sometimes even stimulate that young people don't go to school but go to work as soon as they can "to earn a decent buck and help our family". They are the cheap labour that "entrepreneurs" say they need so badly. Once you are part of that social circle, it's very difficult to work your way out of it. Your parents do not have the money to pay for your education, doing work consumes time - especially if the type of work you do requires that you take on 2 jobs to simply survive. On top of that there are plenty of "helpers" around that try to convince you that you can simply take a loan to buy that car, that stupid vastly overpriced tablet, smartphone or TV set. So you'll have a moment of feel-good and a lifetime or repayments, which diminish your options even further.

Let's see how the "other side" fares. A guy named Bill Gates was born in Seattle, Washington, in an upper-middle-class family. His father was a prominent lawyer, and his mother served on the board of directors for First Interstate BancSystem and the United Way. Gates's maternal grandfather was JW Maxwell, a national bank president. Well, now, yes, indeed. Gates started out getting an education. At 13, he enrolled in the Lakeside School, an exclusive preparatory school. When he was in the eighth grade, the Mothers Club at the school used proceeds from Lakeside School's rummage sale to buy a Teletype Model 33 ASR terminal and a block of computer time on a General Electric (GE) computer for the school's students. Gates took an interest in programming the GE system in BASIC, and was excused from math classes to pursue his interest. The rest is history.

Come on, give me a break, the frigging Mothers Club. Yeah, sure, Gates worked his way up all by himself ..

I know, there are a few that really worked their way out of their misery. But they are exceptions, not the rule.

It's not like these are kids out of college that Goldman went up to and said, hey can we pay you $500 mil a year to handle our portfolio?

Exactly. But the working classes' kids often don't even finish college.

These companies have trillions on the books, so paying someone a small portion of the huge amounts they earned the company is worth it for the company to retain these brokers in their firms.

Yep - "earned the company". Not society. Society as a whole can be damned - unless they need society to bail them out, of course.

Let's not forget some of those jobs can be pretty stressful. How many of these execs jumped off buildings in 2014?

The overwhelming majority did not, thank heaven. But by God, you must be living in Dreamland to really believe that you EARNED the millions you make by shifting money around, making fake projections, tell half-truths and participate in the Ponzi schemes so common in that world. Like you say, my dear academic friend: those that studied it know it: they stole it. It's legal, we seem to accept it, but nevertheless: they stole it. For they thrive on other folks money and other folks debts. Some may not be able to live with that and jump of a building. Other may suddenly get an incline of how it feels to be robbed and have no way to ever repay it - because they took too much risks themselves - and fearful of the wolves in their pack decide it better to end it all and jump. I'd rather see them repent their sins and start contributing to society.

As we say in Finance, the higher the risk, the higher the reward. Those slogan applies to both professional and personal matters.

And if the risks are too high and the bubble bursts, you have the average Joe that will pay for your mistakes - and you will get a bonus large enough to provide hundres of lower class families for years.

Nothing personal, my friend, but that's seriously sick.

I think pirates used to do this. They would rob and steal all year and then divy out the booty. Some things never change, eh?

originally posted by: douglas5

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: douglas5

Wow. That is very impressive graph. Where did all that money go? Everyone in my little city is broke before payday.

Same with the U.K where the banks own the pay day lenders who charge 2000-5000 % apr on loans till payday

Actually, those payday lenders in the uk are owned by American banks, they're just trading in the uk under British payday loan companies, I'll try find the link for you tomorrow

a reply to: Jamie1

No. They don't deserve to be paid millions for #ing up the financial sector. Oh your bank needs bailing out from tax payers money? Oh, we bailed you out, and now you're paying your top cats millions?

Nobody is saying they don't deserve a bonus. People with an ounce of #ing sense are simply saying they don't need to be paid as much. I wonder how much the clerks got in bonuses?

You know, the people that work 12 hour days, work with the public and get the short end of the stick. The people who actually keep the companies going are basically given a pat on the head while their boss is visiting a 22k a week ski chalet.

People like you who make excuses for them are just as bad as the bankers. Only difference being is you're blinkered into believing these fat cats actually deserve millions.

RBS LOST 8.2 billion last year, after being bailed out by us, the public. How the # are they paying out half a billion in bonuses, if they lost 8.2 billion?

Yea, sounds legit to me.