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originally posted by: karl 12
originally posted by: mirageman
My interpretation of that is that just over a half of the UFO reports from pilots and ground base observers that were filed in writing with Air Force Investigators (Blue Book) were supposedly matched with U2 & OXCART flights through the late 1950s into the majority of the 1960s.
Hola MM (and a happy new year!) - haven´t had much time to post recently but do find it interesting that the CIA are parading out this old chestnut again -here´s a relevant post in reply to MBKennel about the veracity of the claims.
Originally posted by mbkennel
That actually makes sense because many of the UFO reports were of CORONA, U-2 and A-12 and other aerial reconaissance projects run by CIA.
I'm assuming your basing your opinion on the claim made by Gerald K. Haines in 1997 - have you ever checked its veracity?
1997--The CIA and Spy Planes
In a report published at about the same time as the Air Force's "crash dummy" revelation, the Central Intelligence Agency tried to write off thousands of UFO reports as mistaken observations of secret spy planes. It ended up writing fiction.
The first demonstrably incorrect statement was that there had been a major increase in UFO reports immediately following the first test flight of the prototype U-2 spy plane in August 1955. A simple count of cases in the files of Project Blue Book (which the CIA admits it used) shows that there had actually been a major decrease.
Then the CIA claimed that half of almost 9,000 UFO sightings made between mid-1955 and late1969 had been mistaken observations of U-2 and later SR-71 spy planes. Since those airplanes cruise too high to be seen from the ground (at more than 70,000 feet), this could not be the case. Moreover, one of the hallmarks of UFO descriptions in that period was their spectacular maneuvers, including right-angle turns at high speed. Both the U-2 and the SR-71 are among the least maneuverable airplanes used by the U.S. military.
Thirdly, the CIA claimed it had conspired with the staff of the Air Force's Project Blue Book to conceal the alleged sightings of spy planes by having them falsely labeled as obscure types of atmospheric phenomena. Had this been the case, several thousand UFO reports for 1955 - 1969 in the permanent files of Project Blue Book would be blamed on ice crystals, temperature inversions, and so on. But the actual total is barely three dozen.
Why the CIA would invent such an easily disproved story is unknown
The phrase 'demonstrably incorrect' is used in the article from the Coalition for Freedom of Information website so I guess all it's a matter of doing is checking if there actually was an increase or decrease in reports after August 1955; if hallmarks of UFO reports from that era actually did involve highly unusual flight characteristics; if the CIA actually did conspire with Project Blue Book to mislabel alleged U2 sightings as 'obscure types of atmospheric phenomena' and if the total number of these alleged Bluebook reports is only actually three dozen.
Below is another relevant article which also bring up the points that the spy plane flights were too few in number to account for all the alleged UFO reports; that the flights were carried out in areas far from public view and that the U-2 and A-12 flew at very high altitudes and were difficult to detect with the naked eye - there's also an interesting snippet concerning the then Project Bluebook Chief Robert Friend:
In 1997, Haines claimed that the CIA used UFO reports as cover for spy planes such as the U-2, and that the Air Force knowingly went along with this deception. Always ready to accept CIA material, the `New York Times' ingested the story - hook, line, and sinker. And thus another bogus claim became historical fact.
There are many problems with the claim. First, the CIA is never a credible source about its own history. After all, it is in business to deceive. Second, spy plane flights were too few in number to account for many UFO reports and they were carried out in areas far from public view. Third, the black U-2 and A-12 "Oxcart" flew at very high altitudes and were difficult to detect both visually and (in the case of the A-12) on radar. Fourth, UFO reports of the era bear little if any resemblance to the flight characteristics of high-altitude spy planes.
But most fatally, Lt. Col. (Ret.) Robert Friend, head of the Air Force's Project Blue Book from 1958 to 1963, later said there is absolutely no truth to the CIA's claims. Not only was Haines wrong about an agreement between the CIA and Air Force but Friend said he never received a single UFO report that he thought could be attributed to a spy plane.
originally posted by: skyblueworld
Never been interested in the 95%, it's always been about the unknowns anyway...
Hi mate and think you make a very important point there - it´s also been shown that the ´official´ unknown report percentages were quite a bit bigger than that.
Official UFO Unexplained Report Percentages.
And of course many of us are aware of the various toxic streams injected by the intel boys into the UFO lore in the years that followed.
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has claimed that the CIA misled her about interrogation methods including water-boarding, while other senior Democrats have quoted Mr Panetta as admitting that his agency regularly misled Congress before he took office.
7 - Failure to counter the sensationalist UFO nonsense that mainly emanates from the USA but which is becoming increasingly popular here except by the miserable skeptics - whose material is often just as ridiculous as the believers and which often trots out government propaganda. (tim mathews from a list of 'major problems within [uk] ufology')
The USA gets the bad rap again. Actually, we are at the leading edge of UFO research and that is why many of the UFO magazines in the UK turn to stories about American researchers. (response from bill hamilton)
Many of you (not all) will have already heard
about Tim Hepple (now calling himself Tim
Matthews), currently posturing as a 'UFO
investigator'. I and others, including Steve
Booth, have been researching the antics of this
Nazi thug, and have recently finished the
publication 'At War With the Universe: Exactly
How & Why Nazi Thug & State Asset Tim
Hepple/Matthews has infiltrated Ufology'.
originally posted by: charlyv
This is exactly the kind of information you would expect to see come out, right before the real deal makes a cameo appearance.
Call it anything you want... Getting your Ducks in a Row, plausible deniability, convenience alibi's, custom fabricated stories that can be fitted to many situations, and I am sure some technical jealousy...
Something is going down, and they must think we are all still stupid.