If There Were No Consciousness What Would Be The Point Of Material Existence?

a reply to: Aphorism

The brain constructs your perception of reality.


How's that? Better?

originally posted by: Blarneystoner
a reply to: Aphorism

The brain constructs your perception of reality.


How's that? Better?

My brains construction of reality is accurate enough that I'm able to survive in spite of flying blind so to speak.

originally posted by: MissSmartypants
It's a hard concept to wrap your mind around...if there were no life in the universe and only inanimate material objects interacting with each other what would be the point of existence? Is a point or purpose even necessary? What say you, ATS?

Material existence brings everything else that exists into physical existence.

a reply to: MissSmartypants

My suggestion would be to gain a fundamental understanding of basic philosophical principles. Study the masters; Plato, Descartes, Socrates, etc....

Those guys have mulled over some of the basic questions about Life, the Universe and Everything....

Study different belief systems as well... Taoism, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc...

Gain a solid foundation. The answers to your questions will come from within once you catch a glimpse of what it is you're searching for.

originally posted by: NorEaster

originally posted by: MissSmartypants
It's a hard concept to wrap your mind around...if there were no life in the universe and only inanimate material objects interacting with each other what would be the point of existence? Is a point or purpose even necessary? What say you, ATS?

Material existence brings everything else that exists into physical existence.

What exactly is this "everything else"? And you imply it was around somewhere before material existence. Could you mean the mind of God?

a reply to: MissSmartypants

yes ma'am. the quoted post yo uhave by me is in response to your statement. "This is the way I see it", as in agreement.

RE: our consciousness existing outside our body, and a relation to an afterlife....who knows. What if "you" are only a metaphorical facet on a huge gem. Just one face from many faces, all a part of the macro.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: MissSmartypants

yes ma'am. the quoted post yo uhave by me is in response to your statement. "This is the way I see it", as in agreement.

RE: our consciousness existing outside our body, and a relation to an afterlife....who knows. What if "you" are only a metaphorical facet on a huge gem. Just one face from many faces, all a part of the macro.

Yes I think that I am and I feel it all has something to do with fractals somehow.

a reply to: Blarneystoner

The brain constructs your perception of reality.


How's that? Better?

It’s still quite troublesome to me.

If I were to put a brain on a table, I’d be hard-pressed to say it was constructing reality. I think its a little too reductionist to simply exclaim a brain interprets reality. Rather, an entire human organism in relation to the reality around it is first required.

For whom is the perception of reality constructed? It’s not like there is a little man inside the head viewing a screen while the brain edits what appears on it. We have never found that little man. So who or what is the brain interpreting reality for, and how does that who or what see or interpret what the brain is showing it if it does not have its own brain, sense organs, and chemical signals to view it?

Further, if we admit that we are more than brains, and we are also our eyes, our skin, our ears etc. then we are actually directly perceiving reality by virtue of the fact that we are engaging with and directly in contact with reality and not a construct of it. We cannot construct a reality by viewing a construct of reality.

The computational theory of mind, though exceedingly popular, is on its way out, and I wager will be old news by the end of the decade. Other theories of cognition hold much more empirical and rational evidence, for instance, the embodied cognition theory.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: MissSmartypants
It's a hard concept to wrap your mind around...if there were no life in the universe and only inanimate material objects interacting with each other what would be the point of existence? Is a point or purpose even necessary? What say you, ATS?

To expand on that, according to current quantum theory, without an observer, the universe technically would not exist. As without an observer to collapse the wave function, the "universe" would simply exist as a wave of probability until something/someone.


Then couldn't reality be defined "As the Observer collapsing the wave function". Which tends to mean that a conscious observer, is reacting within a fabric that is also Conscious, it might have to be, as it takes two to tango.

originally posted by: Blarneystoner
a reply to: MissSmartypants

My suggestion would be to gain a fundamental understanding of basic philosophical principles. Study the masters; Plato, Descartes, Socrates, etc....

Those guys have mulled over some of the basic questions about Life, the Universe and Everything....

Study different belief systems as well... Taoism, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc...

Gain a solid foundation. The answers to your questions will come from within once you catch a glimpse of what it is you're searching for.

I don't know Blarneystoner. It seems the harder I search the more I realize I don't know....and for that brief instant when I feel I might have it, it slips away like a forgotten dream.

originally posted by: MissSmartypants

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: MissSmartypants

some of what we call "love" is neurochemical response. That is kind of cold and sterile when you think about it....but the emotion of love is still an emotion. And all emotions are neurochemical.

That said, there is what I believe to be a basis beneath the emotion. I think that having a third person perspective may be the source of this, but in my more romantic moments I like to think that it is our true self speaking through the human animal. Because all animals, in general, seem to express varying levels of empathy and kindness. Killing for play is not common, or is less common.

There are those who say our consciousness or mind exists outside of our physical brain and our brain with all its neuro chemical goings on is merely a receiver which enables us to access our mind in which case love would exist outside and independently of our neuro chemistry.

I think the prime action of becoming an Observer to exist in a reality, is first and foremost to become "self aware" before becoming self aware, we were a non observational part of the fabric. Therefore I as part of the fabric have become self aware , it follows that in reality I am observing myself.

a reply to: anonentity

is awareness a prerequisite for interaction?

Does a T1 Phage need to be self aware to consume another viral compound?

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: anonentity

is awareness a prerequisite for interaction?

Does a T1 Phage need to be self aware to consume another viral compound?

I didn't say that their were not different levels of being self aware. A human infant cant be considered to be as self aware as a human adult. As awareness gets going, it must become exponential with regards to the informational input. Perhaps that's why nature favours intelligence. But as T1 phage is no longer part of the fabric. It can be observed. It does what it has to in the niche, prepared for its existence. Then to a lesser degree than us, it must have some level of self-awareness .Or in the model it couldn't exist.

I skimmed through this a little. Here's my two cents.

It is impossible for the physical reality to exist with out consciousness to observe it.

Its like, does the video game exist without turning it on?

Consciousness turns on the video game that, is all that exists at once, for us to navigate through, from different perspectives of consciousness.

You were Conscious enough to write that. If was none there would be no one to care. After enough time would something would evolve. Say things don't evolve. Everything does, even the flu.

originally posted by: MissSmartypants

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: MissSmartypants

The point is usually the sharp bit.

I wish I could think of a snappy comeback to that but I can't so you win. Except...what is the benefit of humor to our survival?

I think an appreciation of humor prevents us from beating our heads against solid objects in frustration over the absence of a reason for the things that happen.



But, that's hardly the poin . . . Oh, I just had a sudden feeling of deja-vu, do you, too?

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: MissSmartypants

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: MissSmartypants

The point is usually the sharp bit.

I wish I could think of a snappy comeback to that but I can't so you win. Except...what is the benefit of humor to our survival?

Without humor I would have wandered into the Aokigahara Forest years ago and never come out. Laughter is what keeps people sane.

... allows them to remain acceptably insane.

MissSmartypants:

If there were no life in the universe and only inanimate material objects interacting with each other what would be the point of existence?

The answer to that question is starkly clear...there would be no point at all! Only self-sentient conscious beings need and seek purpose, lifeless objects do not. Self-sentient conscious beings seek purpose in order to gain meaning and understanding of their existential state. The correct question to ask is what is the purpose and meaning to life?

We, as life, are in an existential condition. We exist, and we know we exist, but we do not know why, and are seeking the 'how' in hope it provides an understanding to 'why'? The universe vibrates at all frequencies in order to maintain its existence. It doesn't do this consciously, sentiently, it vibrates at the frequencies it can, rapidly switching 'on' and switching 'off' billions of time a second. It does this at the microcosmic level, at the most infinitesimal level of reality where substance cannot exist.

At the most fundamental level of the universe's reality, only energy waveforms exist, but at this level a sort of 'clumpiness' exists each comprised of varying ranges of vibrations at particular energy frequencies, at particular spectrum ranges of energy. Our reality, of macro-cosmic materiality is one such 'clump'

Waveforms breakdown independent of an observer, the act of observation is just one of many interactions by which wave function breakdown occurs, but the real cause of wave function breakdown is the interaction taking place at the most fundamental level...energy exchange between two or more waveforms. When this occurs, the waveforms become two point-like condensations of energy...particles (or quanta), due to a repulsive mechanism, and substance comes into being. This can only occur at interaction. If there were no interactions of any kind taking place, nothing would exist. If all interactions were suddenly and instantly switched off, all existence would disappear, and the universe would become a void where even waveforms had no existence.

However, the vibrations that ripple throughout the universe at different energy frequencies is what 'awakens' and maintains existence by forcing waveforms to each other and breaking down their wave functions as they interact (exchange energy). So, this process, this mechanism of waveform collision and wave function breakdown (energy interaction) is a perpetual motion, and it is how the universe maintains its existence. It remains vibrated and vibrating in existence.

When waveforms breakdown, time begins. That is to say, systems are created which firstly build up and then break apart, there is no reversal in this process. From wave function breakdown quanta emerge, and they themselves 'clump together at discrete frequencies, at which those various particles form and clump together to form molecules and so on. As above, so below. Once the molecules arrived, the building blocks for life also emerged, and eventually self-sentient conscious life forms, whose first question was...what is the point of existence?

The next important question is...at the death of the system (i.e., the physical body) due to entropy, is there a part of us that survives the physical crash, and retains a post-mortem conscious existence. In order to answer that, we need to understand the 'power source' problem that helps it to retain cohesiveness and conscious existence?

originally posted by: booyakasha
I skimmed through this a little. Here's my two cents.

It is impossible for the physical reality to exist with out consciousness to observe it.

Its like, does the video game exist without turning it on?

Consciousness turns on the video game that, is all that exists at once, for us to navigate through, from different perspectives of consciousness.

Hmmm....thought provoking and. it has the feeling of truth about it. I now have something to ponder this evening. Thanks.

originally posted by: elysiumfire
MissSmartypants:

If there were no life in the universe and only inanimate material objects interacting with each other what would be the point of existence?

The answer to that question is starkly clear...there would be no point at all! Only self-sentient conscious beings need and seek purpose, lifeless objects do not. Self-sentient conscious beings seek purpose in order to gain meaning and understanding of their existential state. The correct question to ask is what is the purpose and meaning to life?

We, as life, are in an existential condition. We exist, and we know we exist, but we do not know why, and are seeking the 'how' in hope it provides an understanding to 'why'? The universe vibrates at all frequencies in order to maintain its existence. It doesn't do this consciously, sentiently, it vibrates at the frequencies it can, rapidly switching 'on' and switching 'off' billions of time a second. It does this at the microcosmic level, at the most infinitesimal level of reality where substance cannot exist.

At the most fundamental level of the universe's reality, only energy waveforms exist, but at this level a sort of 'clumpiness' exists each comprised of varying ranges of vibrations at particular energy frequencies, at particular spectrum ranges of energy. Our reality, of macro-cosmic materiality is one such 'clump'

Waveforms breakdown independent of an observer, the act of observation is just one of many interactions by which wave function breakdown occurs, but the real cause of wave function breakdown is the interaction taking place at the most fundamental level...energy exchange between two or more waveforms. When this occurs, the waveforms become two point-like condensations of energy...particles (or quanta), due to a repulsive mechanism, and substance comes into being. This can only occur at interaction. If there were no interactions of any kind taking place, nothing would exist. If all interactions were suddenly and instantly switched off, all existence would disappear, and the universe would become a void where even waveforms had no existence.

However, the vibrations that ripple throughout the universe at different energy frequencies is what 'awakens' and maintains existence by forcing waveforms to each other and breaking down their wave functions as they interact (exchange energy). So, this process, this mechanism of waveform collision and wave function breakdown (energy interaction) is a perpetual motion, and it is how the universe maintains its existence. It remains vibrated and vibrating in existence.

When waveforms breakdown, time begins. That is to say, systems are created which firstly build up and then break apart, there is no reversal in this process. From wave function breakdown quanta emerge, and they themselves 'clump together at discrete frequencies, at which those various particles form and clump together to form molecules and so on. As above, so below. Once the molecules arrived, the building blocks for life also emerged, and eventually self-sentient conscious life forms, whose first question was...what is the point of existence?

The next important question is...at the death of the system (i.e., the physical body) due to entropy, is there a part of us that survives the physical crash, and retains a post-mortem conscious existence. In order to answer that, we need to understand the 'power source' problem that helps it to retain cohesiveness and conscious existence?

I kinda said that myself in different posts throughout this thread but certainly not with your eloquence. Existence is the ultimate symphony.