The Devil

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

I suppose one would necessarily need to know what hell is exactly, prior to saying that its poor form.

Is it poor form for you to try and make Muslims out to be nice people - when some of them are filled with hate for no known reason?

God says hell, says its a nasty place we don't want to be.. its a place where there is separation from HIM. this is what we know factually. All three Abraham traditions basically speak of this thing.

Most of us know, true hell can easily be found on this earth. So saying, give all your burden to the one whose religion says give all your burden to - Jesus - is then not a bad thing. We can live Holy lives Charlie, and if we actually did this, we might all be the better for it.

Its not for everyone, the bible speaks of this too.. it is only for the ones who would like it to be for them, so you are clear to live your own life how you would choose.

But saying, God is offering you this beautiful gift, is really not poor form in my opinion. I wonder why you are not bothered about speaking in the ISIS threads about being kind and loving toward Muslims, but let this man speak of the gifts of Jesus, and you call poor form.

There just seems a logical disconnect there somewhere. If you would like to be kind and considerate to Muslims, perhaps trying the same for everyone is a good place to start. Muslims are much more damning, in my personal opinion, than a Christian who calls others to live more Christ-like lives.

If you don't like it, then simply don't read it.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: backcase

Nice writing, backcase.

I find the paradox of the cross as a symbol of salvation, where it was once a symbol of death and torture to be interesting. It seems a recurring Christain theme to look at something in the world, make it out to be a symbol, and to alter its value in such a rhetorical fashion, so as to disguise it's true nature. I beleive the flesh as satan is such a disguise.

I started reading this book, where the man explains the meaning of the blood, and the meaning of the cross to be interesting.

Its called the normal Christian life.. and so far, although I am not very far along, it does seem to be good.

www.ccel.org...

People can download and read the whole book free.

www.ccel.org...

a reply to: CagliostroTheGreat

Sin is not one thing, its different things for everyone. Sin is anything you put before God usually. Lying might be considered across the board as a sin because it is something that is not truth, and since God is all truth, a lie does not come from God.

Only truth comes from God.

That said, everyone has different stuff that are sins, because its whatever you personally put before God. Only God can tell you what your sins are, as no man but you and HE knows what they are. They are simply those things which create a barrier between you two.

originally posted by: Dr1Akula
If you follow the Cross you reject Christ, by following his death torture!
Know that this is the truth!

Nope. That's bassackwards.

When Peter told Jesus to escape the suffering and death that was to come, Jesus Himself told Peter 'get thee behind me, Satan'. Therefore, my response to what you say about rejecting the cross of Jesus is the same that Jesus said - Get thee behind me, Satan.

Matthew 16:22-23 Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, "God forbid it, Lord! This shall never happen to You." 23But He turned and said to Peter, "Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; for you are not setting your mind on God's interests, but man's."


The suffering and death and resurrection of Jesus is paramount to the Christian faith. That's why evil tries to deny it. It's important to remember Jesus teachings but it's also important to remember the pinnacle of them which was the death and resurrection of Jesus. It proves him right.

The theme of this thread is the devil and anti-christ. To steer people away from Jesus death and resurrection is anti-christ.

a reply to: backcase

This is because, through the cross - and Jesus - we, in our human state, have the ability to live as Jesus did.

Does this mean we will never make a mistake or error? No. Jesus says HE will forgive us when we begin again, and give it all to Jesus and get ON THE CROSS with HIM, and die once more to our worldly self.

That Cross is so powerful. Its amazing! Utterly amazing!

I don't understand it all yet, maybe I never will. But it is the plan God set forth for us, and its a workable plan in our lives.. it helps us so much! I couldn't be who I am today without it. And with Jesus' help, I will continue to learn and grow and do better yet!

But in myself.. never. I thought I could for a long time, and all I did was live in hell and dig my own hole. Was I what people consider bad? I don't care, what I was, was unable to do it all alone. Jesus took what I was unable to do, and change it into what I could do - through HIM.

We have alcoholics, we have abuse galore, we have people murdering other people, we have all manner of bad things. Anyone can look around and see hell on earth for most. Jesus can take all these things away, change us into loving beings for one another, people who care for each other, people who can heal the sick, people who can, through Jesus all, see this earth turn into one more closely resembling heaven.

No one has to take it, but its beautiful ... and for anyone who wants a better chance in this world. For us all. If we all took up the offer, we could see something amazing in our world.

But not without Jesus, because we can look around and see what our pride, our ego, our hate, our materialism, our own understanding, our sins, have gotten us. That was without Jesus and/or without the Cross. If we understand and take up the offer to die HIS death, thereby dying to this world, all that stuff would be gone from it.

An amazing world it would be, if today we were hearing about what person helped who on the news, instead of who just chopped whose head off, or who robbed from who, or who whatever. I'd rather see the great stuff on the news instead. Not wars.. not hate.. not greed.. not envy.. not strife..

But beauty. That can only be done through the Cross of Jesus Christ. If someone says, I will accept forgiveness for my sins, but I am keeping my hate too, then they didn't follow through with the whole plan God set forth for us.

Very nice thread, thank you.

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: vethumanbeing
originally posted by: deadeyedick
originally posted by: CagliostroTheGreat
a reply to: WarminIndy

If all those gods are the same God then why all the in-fighting? Why, if Muslims and Christians worship the same God, do they constantly seem to want to kill each other? Will I still be burning in hell if I choose not to worship this God?

Perhaps we are burning now by being caught up in this crazy place.

I thought we all volunteered for this mission/hell on earth/we the experimental humans live on the ONLY experimental planet ever existed?
Same God created us all; why the infighting of the subspecie indeed?

That idea is not in my religious world view.
Why would we voluntarily volunteer for crappy lives? Were we stupid?

Kinda looks that way...doesn't it? Definitely AS stupid as 'believing' a curtailed version of Almightiness - that would credit the creation for the ministrations for the less-than-default setting of an imperfect system created by an Almighty being...who (it is shouted) would allow the level of imperfection encompassed by a renegade character left unchecked...that logic springs direct from the mind of man...i.e. Could never be a hallmark of Almightiness...and the obvious question resulting from this way of arranging the process always remains...How almighty do you believe the Almighty IS, if it cannot - or will not (for the sake of ITS own creation) *poof* the renegade faction into oblivion? (And/or retain the components of a perfected system 'that I created to reflect the perfected love I so 'desire' in the most perfected way').

A spanner in the spokes, indeed...badly concieved, badly executed and less than a little fault-free...

Å99

a reply to: akushla99

And what would forcing you against your will be?

From what I am understanding, HE wants those who want HIM.. those who don't, are fine then. I want HIM. I am glad HE allowed me to choose too.. makes me appreciate what HE is a little more.

originally posted by: Jainine
When Peter told Jesus to escape the suffering and death that was to come, Jesus Himself told Peter 'get thee behind me, Satan'. Therefore, my response to what you say about rejecting the cross of Jesus is the same that Jesus said - Get thee behind me, Satan.

I was being ironic, but thank you for calling me Satan, I appreciate it...

Matthew 16:22-23 Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, "God forbid it, Lord! This shall never happen to You." 23But He turned and said to Peter, "Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; for you are not setting your mind on God's interests, but man's."

With that logic anyone who want's to prevent his beloved ones from suffering and death, is following man's interests not gods, thus he is Satan. mmmm..... why did he called Peter Satan for his human feelings? I thought showing concern and caring about others was a good thing!
Is human behavior satanic to god?
I thought he made us to feel that way.
Then again in Matthew 27:46, Jesus on the cross cried out with a loud voice "My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?"
Wasn't that in contrast to what he said to Peter? Why did he then complained about Gods interest? He did the same exact thing that he accused peter for.

The suffering and death and resurrection of Jesus is paramount to the Christian faith. That's why evil tries to deny it. It's important to remember Jesus teachings but it's also important to remember the pinnacle of them which was the death and resurrection of Jesus. It proves him right.

That's what Mark and Mathew had in mind (Matthew 16:23 and Mark 8:33) it turned out to be a success proselytizing people by sympathy emphasizing to the torture and sacrifice of their Messiah. *
*(Although by knowing he will be resurrected, it's not really a sacrifice, is it?)

IMO Most important of all should be to remember his teachings and and his unselfishness by sacrificing himself for others and not his death per se.

About the cross
Thousands of people were crucified back then, and the cross just happened to be a popular torture medium at that time. To those people it was a symbol of suffering and death and it's controversial to relate it, and make it a symbol of something holy, positive and loving as Jesus.
Thus worshiping the cross is foolish, If they used to kill people with guillotines at that time , would we now see churches with guillotines on their roofs, and people wearing little guillotines around their necks? It's silly, at least...

The theme of this thread is the devil and anti-christ. To steer people away from Jesus death and resurrection is anti-christ.

Not more anti-christ than celebrating his blood, death and torture, and worshiping the cross that killed him.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

I have used the Name of Jesus and Mary in quite a few circumstances. It always has a tremendous effect. You know when God interferes in a demonic situation like that because you are all of a sudden imbued with the peace and perfume in paradise.

a reply to: Dr1Akula

Yes, its a way to die. Just one way to die. Yet, it was the way HE died, to nullify sin for us. And when we also use HIS perfection and HIS death - which nullified the veil of sin - to go under HIS nullification of sin, then we allow the sin that is over our life, to become nullified.

Here you have Jesus, dying.. happens to be on a cross. HIS death, cause a tear in the fabric which separates man from God.. BUT.. we must go under HIS tear, because we cannot cause a tear in that veil, only one who was perfect could do that.

So.. we climb on the same cross, and die to self and this world, thereby through HIM nullifying the veil of sin that is over us. Then, we can go onward to live HIS perfected life.

Peter, did not understand this at the time. You, do not understand this. I, only recently understood this. It is the way God planned it, so it is the way we choose for ourselves, because in and of ourselves, we cannot nullify the power of sin in our lives, which is that barrier between us and God.

originally posted by: backcase
a reply to: OpinionatedB

I have used the Name of Jesus and Mary in quite a few circumstances. It always has a tremendous effect. You know when God interferes in a demonic situation like that because you are all of a sudden imbued with the peace and perfume in paradise.

That is interesting. I know about Jesus, and get thee behind me satan, and how well this works now. But I am afraid I don't know much about Mary. Other than she was pure and chosen to give birth to Christ. But.. other than this I am rather ignorant.

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: akushla99

And what would forcing you against your will be?

From what I am understanding, HE wants those who want HIM.. those who don't, are fine then. I want HIM. I am glad HE allowed me to choose too.. makes me appreciate what HE is a little more.

Correct answer.

...and what has stopped generation upon generation of like minds 'creating' the fall-guy-scenario (complete with boss-battle at the end)?

At the very least - a 'one-time-one-chance-per-soul' scenario is a stingy offering - the free will mandate, one OF perfection, NOT under the condition of time-constraint freedom...(I was originally responding to a post that mentioned the possibility that we might insert ourselves into grief)...not quite an accurate assessment at all...the conclusion of which, was that this would be stoopid (I agree) but, the consequences of every free will decision are not lain before us at every moment (avalanche theory of effects) and most, if not all, decisions based on free will are insignificant to the point of memory loss (until this memory, or avalanche of effects is recognised)...

I would be remiss to deny anyone the freedom to exercise the free will to create whatever hell worlds/denizens they wanted (was not my original idea) and credit my freedom to create, over anyone elses...

Å99

a reply to: akushla99

but its not stingy. HE is not being stingy to say it must be through Christ.

The reason it must be through Christ, is one thing:

First, read that through:
www.abovetopsecret.com...


The reason through 1 is that God sent the 1, perfect, because the life had to have been lived all the way through, beginning to end - perfect - in order to tear the fabric in the veil. One the 1 managed that, then there was a tear in the fabric for others to also pass through, in order to live the same perfect life, while in this life.

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: akushla99

but its not stingy. HE is not being stingy to say it must be through Christ.

The reason it must be through Christ, is one thing:

First, read that through:
www.abovetopsecret.com...


The reason through 1 is that God sent the 1, perfect, because the life had to have been lived all the way through, beginning to end - perfect - in order to tear the fabric in the veil. One the 1 managed that, then there was a tear in the fabric for others to also pass through, in order to live the same perfect life, while in this life.

Let's be frank.
That poor little 8yo one legged goatherder on the steppes of the siberian desert filling her days providing sustenance for a family of abandoned (by fate) children...has ONE chance?...logical extreme says that 'deliverance' is conditional, by this line of thought...THAT does not require an expanded mind...and the implication is that an Almighty sanctioned this...foray into constriction using FREE will as a mechanism to NOT attain God?

Å99

a reply to: akushla99

I was Muslim, it was God who came to me through dreams and visions to tell me these things. He is telling people all over the world, HIMSELF. He makes sure all people get a chance to hear and understand the message.

Through me, I can tell more, so those I tell have heard the truth. Through another, they can tell more, so those they tell have heard the truth.

Hearing the truth is what is required. Your freewill is up to whether or not you accept his way, or want to see where you get with your own. But now, it can never be said you were not told, with love and care for your proper understanding.

He reaches out, either HIMSELF, or through others who do as HE tells them to. But HE does reach out and explain this to everyone.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

I know of your bias, but the rosary will teach you much. Meditate upon Mary's role in the miracle at the cana wedding. She is also mentioned very much in the Old Testament: Psalm 45; Wisdom or this thread if you have a moment Consolation in Tears

a reply to: backcase

okay, thank you. I will read it.

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: akushla99

I was Muslim, it was God who came to me through dreams and visions to tell me these things. He is telling people all over the world, HIMSELF. He makes sure all people get a chance to hear and understand the message.

Through me, I can tell more, so those I tell have heard the truth. Through another, they can tell more, so those they tell have heard the truth.

Hearing the truth is what is required. Your freewill is up to whether or not you accept his way, or want to see where you get with your own. But now, it can never be said you were not told, with love and care for your proper understanding.

He reaches out, either HIMSELF, or through others who do as HE tells them to. But HE does reach out and explain this to everyone.

'Messages' can become garbled...I have my own version of these 'messages'...(kudos to you).

One-life-one-chance?...or hell and brimstone forever...God really does want you to exercise the critical thinking skills he/she created you with to just not accept the white-bread version of events - especially through the auspices of 'dreams'...we can all do much, much better than that - the perfection of Almighty requires it...that the mechanisms I created you with (independant of belief) can lead you logically back to me...otherwise, free will is irrelevant in the equation (which it is not)...How does free will modify the question of devil, vis-a-vis 'created in my image' (with the machinery TO create) and the free will to credit the created (devil/hell worlds etc)?

Å99

a reply to: akushla99

HE came to me and told me this was HIS truth. I believe HIM. If another God ever comes to me I will let you know, but this one saved my life, twice, and showed me heaven, once in person, and gave me HIS Holy Spirit who is with me continually.

I am clear. And I have spoken all I need to speak. Enjoy your freewill, as I do so enjoy mine!