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The Devil

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posted on Dec, 29 2014 @ 11:33 PM
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My view on Hell (other than it not existing) is that it is not a place of everlasting torment. Yes, I have read the verses in the Bible that when referring to Hell use words like eternal! However I think the context has been misunderstood and misused throughout history.

Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Mathew 10:28

The Bible talks about a first and second death. The first death is that of the body, and the second is that of the soul. If your soul is destroyed, how is the punishment everlasting torment? The punishment is eternal in the sense you have absolutely no hope of salvation because you have been utterly destroyed. There is no coming back, ever. You cease to exist for the rest of eternity.

In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power. 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9

Destruction that is everlasting. Not destruction that takes an eternity to reach. That wouldn't be destruction would it? If it took an eternity to be destroyed that destruction would never come. But once something has been destroyed in Hell, it is destroyed forever. Or as scripture puts it, eternally.

The LORD preserves all who love Him, but all the wicked He will destroy. Psalm 145:20

If hell was everlasting torment, it isn't destruction. It would be preservation. Albeit a preservation lacking any joy or satisfaction.

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23

Wouldn't everlasting existence in Hell still count as... an eternal afterlife? That's not consistent with "the wages of sin is death" is it?

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16

"perish" a.k.a. destroy both soul and body in hell.
"eternal life" a.k.a. heaven everlasting.

Enter through the narrow gate, for wide is the gate and broad the road that leads to destruction and many enter through it, but small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. Mathew 7:13-14

"leads to destruction" e.g. of the body and soul.
"road that leads to life" e.g. eternal life.

Here is an extensive Bible study on the subject: Hell Know!
That site will go into way more depth than I have in this post.

Do people really send themselves to hell?

Here is that concept with some perspective:

Imagine if you will a courtroom scene where a man is on trial for murder. He claims not guilty. His defense claims that the alleged murder victim's death was the result of a suicide. As evidence of this, they offer up surveillance footage of the scene of the crime. The footage shows our defendant aiming a gun at the victim's head and demanding his wallet and any other valuables. He makes it clear that if he chooses not to comply, he will be shot and killed. Still, the victim stands his ground, and refuses to give into the demands. So, our defendant shoots and kills him. It is a cut and dry case of suicide. The alleged victim was given a clear choice. The victim had the free will to either obey the defendant and live, or disobey and die. He chose to disobey. The defendant did not murder the alleged victim, the alleged victim chose to die.

(Here is that concept animated.)

As for the Devil himself, that old adversary has gone through many evolutions throughout history. He is no more consistent than any other doctrine or dogma. I wouldn't worry about him too much honestly.

Here's some food for thought. If Satan was cursed to go about on his belly in Genesis how is he walking around tempting Jesus later on in the Bible? Or able to transform himself as an angel of light for that matter?

So much for that curse.

I also think it's worth noting that your God's personal morality be questioned.




edit on 12-29-2014 by WakeUpBeer because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 30 2014 @ 01:59 AM
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a reply to: backcase

Nice writing, backcase.

I find the paradox of the cross as a symbol of salvation, where it was once a symbol of death and torture to be interesting. It seems a recurring Christain theme to look at something in the world, make it out to be a symbol, and to alter its value in such a rhetorical fashion, so as to disguise it's true nature. I beleive the flesh as satan is such a disguise.



posted on Dec, 30 2014 @ 05:22 AM
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a reply to: backcase

The Antichrist is salvation
For Yahweh is the one who hates human nature

How can anyone love the cross a symbol of torture and death.
If you really love Jesus, celebrate his life not his death

If you follow the Cross you reject Christ, by following his death torture!
Know that this is the truth!



The Devil appeared to Jesus in the desert,
and he appeared again in St. Peter,
and Jesus spoke the same words when being tempted away from His Cross:
Get thee behind me Satan! ....
....Before we sin, Jesus forbids it, man seeks his freedom and notices the ability to rebel. The Devil takes the side of the man and says: 'Free will is thine! Do what thou wilt and be without guilt!"


The poor devil tried to save Jesus and mankind from Yahweh the slaughter of souls and king of misery and despair.

God coaxes you to despair, he is anti-nature and anti-human, he wants you to waste your one and only short life in misery,
but Satan loves you, and lets you live your life as you want and please, because there is only one chance to do so...

Do not listen to those who say 'there is sin',
for they are lying.

Live and let live, do to others as you would have done to you, do anything you want as long as you don't hurt others.

1- The Holy Name of Satan - For every knee will bow to the Name of Satan, on and under the earth!


2- The Invocation of the Blood of Christ - for without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin.
Wow that's evil, I'll leave it, it seems your obsessed with the torture and blood of the poor Christ.
Do you also seek the she shedding of blood of those you think are sinners?
3- Devotion to the Blessed Mother Earth - For She has crushed the head of Yahweh beneath Her heel!

Love your life, because that is the straight way to the real Heaven and away from the evil man hating god.

Are you offended?... You don't like my preaching? .... well guess what....



posted on Dec, 30 2014 @ 10:45 AM
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originally posted by: CagliostroTheGreat
a reply to: backcase

Eris is just as real! What makes your God any more real than any of the others (some of which pre-date your god)?

Or are you going to tell me Eris isn't real?



Oh, then you don't know God. You assume our God only came into being with the Roman Christian church. Well, let's see if that is the case...

pre-Hinduism: Brahma...the ONE, the SUPREME, the GOD of ALL.
China: Shang-Di, the ONE, the FIRST.
Zoroastrianism: Ahura Mazda- The SUPREME, the ONE.
Judaism: I AM, The G_D above gods
Native Americans: The Great Spirit
Ancient Turks: Tengri - The Sky Father

What do all of these have in common? They are all explaining the same God without images, with the same attributes, with the same function. They all believe the ONE is eternal, spiritual and can never be expressed fully with words.

God didn't just suddenly exist for Christians, we merely have one piece of written literature about God. Throughout history, the belief in the ONE has always prevailed and persisted, shared between the hearts of people. The idols and statues and images are mere representations of different aspects or attributes that were deified and then given names.

Did Wodin exist? Certainly as they believed he was the Father of the Gods, they deified attributes. Does it mean Wodin is another God? Nope, same God, merely given a name in another language and culture.

Jupiter of the Romans, was he God? He was also Father of the Gods, but people worshiped different attributes by making stone monuments to worship because they thought they needed a visual representation.

ONE has always BEEN, ONE always will BE. That's the God of the Christians that we understand from the Book that we have been given, but we didn't invent ONE, the I AM, thank the Jews for giving that to us. And then thank the more ancient cultures for giving that to the Jews. In fact, this is how the rabbis explain it, when I AM presented Himself to the ancients, He asked who would keep His mitzvahs, the Jews said yes.

So even the Jews believed that I AM was everywhere and not just for them.



posted on Dec, 30 2014 @ 10:55 AM
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a reply to: WarminIndy

If all those gods are the same God then why all the in-fighting? Why, if Muslims and Christians worship the same God, do they constantly seem to want to kill each other? Will I still be burning in hell if I choose not to worship this God?



posted on Dec, 30 2014 @ 11:12 AM
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originally posted by: CagliostroTheGreat
a reply to: WarminIndy

If all those gods are the same God then why all the in-fighting? Why, if Muslims and Christians worship the same God, do they constantly seem to want to kill each other? Will I still be burning in hell if I choose not to worship this God?


Oh, you see, Allah is merely a word for The God, but never with explanation. Sure, there are 99 names for this particular god, but doesn't have same attributes as others explain.

Whether you worship God or not, that depends, do you think that people who have lived extraordinarily bad lives and hurt many people, should they simply just be allowed to die without some type of punishment?

On the other hand, people who have lived extraordinarily good lives and helped many people, should they suffer the same fate and never being rewarded for their good?

As we sit and converse about reward and punishment, is it really just and fair that the evil ones simply go to the grave never expecting anything to be done about their badness while lying next to the good ones who are never going to be rewarded for goodness?

How would you like to see it happen? Do you think it is just and fair?



posted on Dec, 30 2014 @ 12:55 PM
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originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
I think soliciting the ATS community with your Religion is against the T&Cs & even so I don't think people appreciate the "accept Jesus or suffer hellfire" routine...





I've seen it in thread posts...





I've never seen a thread based on that premise.









You're probably a wonderful person...

But I think it's poor form to be honest.

I do not think your post is correct.
The op has stated the fundementals of what it is to be a true christian and the accept Jesus or sufffer in hell sums it up well. right now it is a choice for everyone to make.



posted on Dec, 30 2014 @ 12:57 PM
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originally posted by: CagliostroTheGreat
a reply to: WarminIndy



If all those gods are the same God then why all the in-fighting? Why, if Muslims and Christians worship the same God, do they constantly seem to want to kill each other? Will I still be burning in hell if I choose not to worship this God?
Perhaps we are burning now by being caught up in this crazy place.



posted on Dec, 30 2014 @ 06:22 PM
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originally posted by: deadeyedick
originally posted by: CagliostroTheGreat
a reply to: WarminIndy

If all those gods are the same God then why all the in-fighting? Why, if Muslims and Christians worship the same God, do they constantly seem to want to kill each other? Will I still be burning in hell if I choose not to worship this God?


Perhaps we are burning now by being caught up in this crazy place.

I thought we all volunteered for this mission/hell on earth/we the experimental humans live on the ONLY experimental planet ever existed?
Same God created us all; why the infighting of the subspecie indeed?
edit on 30-12-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 30 2014 @ 06:26 PM
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originally posted by: vethumanbeing
originally posted by: deadeyedick
originally posted by: CagliostroTheGreat
a reply to: WarminIndy

If all those gods are the same God then why all the in-fighting? Why, if Muslims and Christians worship the same God, do they constantly seem to want to kill each other? Will I still be burning in hell if I choose not to worship this God?


Perhaps we are burning now by being caught up in this crazy place.

I thought we all volunteered for this mission/hell on earth/we the experimental humans live on the ONLY experimental planet ever existed?
Same God created us all; why the infighting of the subspecie indeed?


That idea is not in my religious world view.
Why would we voluntarily volunteer for crappy lives? Were we stupid?



posted on Dec, 30 2014 @ 07:21 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: backcase


I find the paradox of the cross as a symbol of salvation, where it was once a symbol of death and torture to be interesting. It seems a recurring Christain theme to look at something in the world, make it out to be a symbol, and to alter its value in such a rhetorical fashion, so as to disguise it's true nature. I beleive the flesh as satan is such a disguise.


I have read that God chooses trivial things of the world to hide his treasures, places where no one would thing to seek. Two crossed sticks, an apple, vapor, blood, etc.

But I wouldn't say that the nature of the object is disguised, rather, the idea of it is used as a tool or a face, being a label bin for which we hold all of our questions, answers, and thoughts on that 'thing'. Hope that makes sense to you.

My problem is with your last sentence... will you please reiterate and explain?
edit on 073131p://222 by backcase because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 30 2014 @ 08:33 PM
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a reply to: AreUKiddingMe

Neither do I worship statues. I do not worship the blessed mother either.

Tell me, is it possible for someone to pray for someone else? If it is, then it is possible for a saint to do so, don't you think.

The Family in Heaven is our spiritual family, and when children choose to be around their mother, they tend to stay out of trouble. It's a similar principal.



posted on Dec, 30 2014 @ 08:46 PM
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originally posted by: WarminIndy]originally posted by: vethumanbeing

VHB: Same God created us all; why the infighting of the subspecie indeed?



WarminIndy: That idea is not in my religious world view.
Why would we voluntarily volunteer for crappy lives? Were we stupid?

No we actually are the 'best and brightest' that knew we would understand this mission impossible scenario *remember why we are here and who we are*. Some call us the 'system busters' Stupidly brave/courageous enough to try to change horrible paradigms that have been set in motion/place since the time of Moses (several thousand years of patriarchy). Land animal "Sea Shepherds".
edit on 30-12-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 30 2014 @ 09:17 PM
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a reply to: backcase

"3- Devotion to the Blessed Mother - For She has crushed the head of the serpent beneath Her heel!"

That sounds like worshiping to me. But I'm not here to split hairs, and to each their own as far as doctrinal beliefs. Your choice, my choice, it's all good.



posted on Dec, 30 2014 @ 09:22 PM
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originally posted by: AreUKiddingMe
a reply to: backcase

"3- Devotion to the Blessed Mother - For She has crushed the head of the serpent beneath Her heel!"

That sounds like worshiping to me. But I'm not here to split hairs, and to each their own as far as doctrinal beliefs. Your choice, my choice, it's all good.

As far as that worship rope stretches in tension without breaking. I take it you are not a "typical Dogma" enthusiast.
edit on 30-12-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 30 2014 @ 09:33 PM
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a reply to: AreUKiddingMe

I do not have a statue of mary in my room that I bow down to and pray to. I pray the rosary and meditate on the virtues of the only woman worthy to carry God in her womb. She is my spiritual mother, as she has given me way into the family tree, through the Seed she has borne.

You just want to see the love of the blessed mother as evil. Deep down you really know it is not. You have blocks and biases in your heart that leave a cold spot, let all of your heart be warmed by love.



posted on Dec, 30 2014 @ 09:47 PM
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a reply to: vethumanbeing

no I'm not a dogma enthusiast about religion, still sorta searching myself but I have problems with the Catholics asking "saints" to pray for us, problems praying to the virgin Mary and asking her to pray for us, but then again I know what the Bible says. Like I said, if it works for you, great. I love the story of the virgin birth but I just can't find anything in the Bible that deifies Mary herself. This has been pulled out of thin air like so many Catholic traditions. Not here to argue or drift the thread though. As long as I get the last word.



posted on Dec, 30 2014 @ 09:48 PM
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originally posted by: backcase

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: backcase

I find the paradox of the cross as a symbol of salvation, where it was once a symbol of death and torture to be interesting. It seems a recurring Christain theme to look at something in the world, make it out to be a symbol, and to alter its value in such a rhetorical fashion, so as to disguise it's true nature. I beleive the flesh as satan is such a disguise.


I have read that God chooses trivial things of the world to hide his treasures, places where no one would thing to seek. Two crossed sticks, an apple, vapor, blood, etc.

But I wouldn't say that the nature of the object is disguised, rather, the idea of it is used as a tool or a face, being a label bin for which we hold all of our questions, answers, and thoughts on that 'thing'. Hope that makes sense to you.


According to Plato, your identity exists as how you perceive yourself in relation to others (false). The shape you have acquired; or YOUR NAME. All identifiers as an individualized aspect (describing yourself). One could take the ICON of the Cross, combine it with a name (enri). What is missing is Jesus actually proclaiming himself to be the king of kings (his perception of himself (NOTHING). Those two, the cross and its figurehead (not claimed) are enough to pierce a mindset (the organized corruption between the jews and romans and create change). Symbols are very powerful. Cross/crucifixion a torture device particularly when a human figure is welded to it and wears around ones neck. Christianity was the outcome, not sure anyone knew at this time what an eventual fallout would be (did not discredit Judaism/just caused a huge rift). Why? What is being said here? Who is telling the greater truth?



posted on Dec, 30 2014 @ 10:17 PM
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d/p god is having its fun
edit on 30-12-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 30 2014 @ 10:17 PM
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originally posted by: AreUKiddingMe
a reply to: vethumanbeing

no I'm not a dogma enthusiast about religion, still sorta searching myself but I have problems with the Catholics asking "saints" to pray for us, problems praying to the virgin Mary and asking her to pray for us, but then again I know what the Bible says. Like I said, if it works for you, great. I love the story of the virgin birth but I just can't find anything in the Bible that deifies Mary herself. This has been pulled out of thin air like so many Catholic traditions. Not here to argue or drift the thread though. As long as I get the last word.

Am I of the understanding you do not like the rigors of the "Catholic confessional" (greatest blackmailing effort ever conceived and succeeded) between someone In power and his Dopey constituents. Mary was 13 when she was sold to the 48 year old widower Joseph (he had 15 grown children already). Gabriel stepped in and impregnated her as a virgin with a God aspect. Those two had a few more normally; Where is the problem? perhaps too many to mention.
edit on 30-12-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)




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