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NATO, West Is The Biggest Threat Of Our Existence, Says Russia; Ready to Use Precision Weapons Versu

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posted on Dec, 30 2014 @ 05:28 AM
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a reply to: kitzik

Right...

Here, educate yourself -
1936 CONVENTION REGARDING THE REGIME OF THE STRAITS

Yes we are more than aware of what the possibilities are. The problem is Putin and his threat to use nukes. Its Putin and his inability to own his mistakes. Its Putin and his ego leading us down this path.

What Putin is gambling on is the west giving in to what Putin wants and has taken. The problem with that mindset, and again with Putin rewriting history, is Europe went down this road twice in the last century. Unfortunately Putin believes his own lies.

Putin is the one who can end all of this and thus far his ego is preventing him from accepting the fact he made a big boo boo.

He is underestimating the resolve of Europe and overestimating his ability to win a war that he started in Ukraine.

Any chance you will answer my question about Russian reaction if Turkey tells Russia to kick rocks with regards to the straights?


edit on 30-12-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 30 2014 @ 05:38 AM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra

The fact remains Turkey is the one responsible for what happens if the treaty is violated and like I said I don't see Russia getting a sympathetic ear from Turkey with all the provocations Russia has made, including against Turkey.


If you think Turkey is going to cause Russia problems in the Black Sea you're crazy. Won't happen now or in the future. To make sure of that Putin is spreading a little low cost Gas love Russian style.

www.wsj.com...



posted on Dec, 30 2014 @ 05:40 AM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: kitzik

Right...

Here, educate yourself -
1936 CONVENTION REGARDING THE REGIME OF THE STRAITS

Yes we are more than aware of what the possibilities are. The problem is Putin and his threat to use nukes. Its Putin and his inability to own his mistakes. Its Putin and his ego leading us down this path.

What Putin is gambling on is the west giving in to what Putin wants and has taken. The problem with that mindset, and again with Putin rewriting history, is Europe went down this road twice in the last century. Unfortunately Putin believes his own lies.

Putin is the one who can end all of this and thus far his ego is preventing him from accepting the fact he made a big boo boo.

He is underestimating the resolve of Europe and overestimating his ability to win a war that he started in Ukraine.

Any chance you will answer my question about Russian reaction if Turkey tells Russia to kick rocks with regards to the straights?






Any further entry into the Black Sea of naval forces of non-Black Sea Powers shall only be effected within
the available limits of the aggregate tonnage provided for in paragraphs (a) and (b) above.
(2) Vessels of war belonging to non-Black Sea Powers shall not remain in the Black Sea more than twenty one
days, whatever be the object of their presence there.


I'm not answering hypothetic questions about how Turkey feels about Russia, I don't know what would be the reaction from Russia in case Turkey closes Bosphorus but I suspect it will be equal to declaring a war.

And please, stop saying this mantra "Putin this or Putin that" think about nearest bunker to you. I have a feeling that this time in pov of Russia USA crossing all red lines and they will not hesitate to use nukes. USA supported violent change of power in Ukraine and USA is willing to fight Russia until the last Ukranian. There are signs that UA/USA is preparing guerilla forces similar to this en.wikipedia.org... (during WW2) to fight in Cuban, also USA continues to stir islamists in Caucasus. There are a red lines and after diplomacy (that is failing) there will be rockets and God save us all.
edit on 30-12-2014 by kitzik because: (no reason given)





Putin is the one who can end all of this and thus far his ego is preventing him from accepting the fact he made a big boo boo.


Putin can not end this, there is a very strong popular demand to end this restraint and respond properly to american agression. By respond properly I mean to make a new big oceanic strait between Canada and Mexico. It is possible that in the future Russians will again see americans in a more positive line, but at the moment Putin is a dove compared to average Russian. Because meanwhile it is Russians that are dying and suffering from American involment in the region they don't belong. We can talk very long about diplomacy and international treaties and who is more aggressive etc, but the facts are that Russians feel very threatened and from reading of Russian press I can say there is a consensus that Americans are pushing too far, it is not just what "Crazy Tzar Putin" thinking. My observation about "average Russian" I'm basing from the comments from this site inosmi.ru... It is a site where they are translating to Russian foreign press and sometimes after some ergregorous article "Putin bots" invading even some obscure american sites such as "American thinker" lol. But also I'm following other Russian sites. You fail to understand that unlike late USSR years when USA was viewed positively in spite of official propaganda nowadays Russians are very anti American.

Russian recent actions about Crimea finding support even amongst first wave of Russian emigration from 1917. There is an open letter to "European community" from all those descendants of old Russian Czarist nobility. Most of them based in France, so the letter is in French and Russian
www.russkymost.net...
www.russkymost.net...



edit on 30-12-2014 by kitzik because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 30 2014 @ 06:06 AM
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a reply to: kitzik

The Bosporus / Dardanelles are not international waterways. They are territorial waters of Turkey who allows the use of those waterways to foreign nations, like Russia.

The hypothetical was valid as it demonstrates Russia's willingness to try and use something in their favor, only to violate the treaty when it no longer suits their needs.

It is demonstrating that Putin is off his rocker and his unpredictable demeanor coupled with his imaginary threats to Russia and perceived slight by leaders towards him is a threat not just to the west, but everyone, Russia included. He is showing the same mentality US generals had during the Cuban missile crisis. In their arrogance they thought the US would win a war with the USSR via first strike. They were so absolute that they never bothered to consider the fact the US could lose a war with the USSR.

What's the purpose of territorial acquisitions if the territory in question wont be habitable for 50k years?

I seriously think Putin is having mental issues and is in denial to be honest. His has moved himself into a position where his lies are being exposed abroad and at home, the economy cant be fixed until the situation changes and he is yearning for the hey days of the USSR.

A person who bases his entire position on lies / bluffs is one who will go down fighting instead of admitting they were wrong.

Backing down in hopes Putin stops with Ukraine is dangerous and unacceptable.




edit on 30-12-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 30 2014 @ 06:07 AM
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a reply to: noeltrotsky

and turkey has been burned before by Russia.



posted on Dec, 30 2014 @ 06:46 AM
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Lets hope Russin gets in calmer waters and that Europe doesn't do again and again what the US wants.
The US lied about the Iraq war (with their evidence), and those foolish Europeans (most of them) where happy helping the US and all those other wars in the middle east which is now in total CHAOS. But the war machine must be rolling on full steam because the economy isn't doing well I suppose (the US is at war for the last 16 years non stop).
IMO it's a way from the US to get the trade Europe had with Russia for themself + this way Europe probably will invest more in defence (which is also good for the US of course). The US downgraded Europe after it sold those fake bank products, Europe was a bigger economy then the US, of course the Euro was in a good position replacing the dollar as the world currency, you don't want that 2 happen.... Iraq & Libya just switched to euro's.

It's all crazy and madness... that's for sure.

Anyways what the truth may be, you or me what we read in the media isn't the truth, it's warmongering and spreading hate.
# all of that.

edit on 30-12-2014 by Plugin because: (no reason given)

edit on 30-12-2014 by Plugin because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 30 2014 @ 06:54 AM
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NATO is an american puppet force that we in Europe are forced to pay for and they keep trying to move closer and closer towards the Russian border and Putin simply won't allow this to continue.

Russia is not starting wars all over the world like the US is doing and it didn't start the trouble in the Ukraine so why should Russia sepnd a fortune on building up conventional force when it did not start the trouble and has nukes that will do the job.

The USA now has $18tr in debt due to its war budget and wants to tell the world how it should fight a war with the USA but no one is listening.

I want to see the USA leaving Europe alone and they can take all the military hardware they have placed in Europe back home with them.



posted on Dec, 30 2014 @ 06:59 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra



t is demonstrating that Putin is off his rocker and his unpredictable demeanor coupled with his imaginary threats to Russia and perceived slight by leaders towards him is a threat not just to the west, but everyone


So the $5bn that the USA spent on funding the Nazi's in the Ukraine is in Putins head and so is the mess the USA has made in Libya, Iraq , Afgainistan.

Reports of deaths in Syria and the WMD lies about Assad is in putins head too

Someone is off his "rocker" allright and its not Putin



posted on Dec, 30 2014 @ 07:47 AM
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a reply to: Plugin




The US downgraded Europe after it sold those fake bank products, Europe was a bigger economy then the US, of course the Euro was in a good position replacing the dollar as the world currency, you don't want that 2 happen


The best equilibrium of powers today would be

1. USA + UK and other English speaking nations
2. China
3. Moscow-Berlin loose axis

This triangle could prevent all out war for another 20-30 years.

You see for American interests parrots building South stream is bad. Abandoning South stream is even worse lol

www.the-american-interest.com...


By suddenly abandoning the South Stream natural gas pipeline, the Kremlin may damage political ties with several partners. Hungary and Serbia expended substantial political capital by supporting the pipeline’s construction despite violations of EU anti-monopoly regulations. Nonetheless, the Kremlin has other levers of political and financial influence and can capitalize on ethnic disputes in Bosnia-Herzegovina and Macedonia to thwart EU and NATO enlargement.

Moscow’s backing for nationalism, ultra-conservatism, and Euroskepticism throughout the continent is a profitable method to undermine the EU from within. A fifth of EU parliamentarians oppose further EU expansion and vote against resolutions critical of Moscow. Among these are assorted nationalists from CEE who view Putin as a defender of traditional values. Paradoxically, these deputies are ultimately undermining the independence of their own countries by supporting a regime that views the sovereignty of neighbors as a transient phenomenon.



More from there


In the western Balkans, Albania and Kosova will always remain bastions of pro-Americanism and resistance to Russia’s inroads.


Sure, nurturing proislamist mafia states in Europe underbelly is only in American interests
edit on 30-12-2014 by kitzik because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 30 2014 @ 08:33 AM
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originally posted by: VirusGuard
a reply to: Xcathdra



t is demonstrating that Putin is off his rocker and his unpredictable demeanor coupled with his imaginary threats to Russia and perceived slight by leaders towards him is a threat not just to the west, but everyone


So the $5bn that the USA spent on funding the Nazi's in the Ukraine is in Putins head and so is the mess the USA has made in Libya, Iraq , Afgainistan.

Reports of deaths in Syria and the WMD lies about Assad is in putins head too

Someone is off his "rocker" allright and its not Putin


I consistently see you spitting this half-truth out as gospel. "The Ukraine got 5 billion dollars and the Nazis took over!"

One thing you always, consistently, and conveniently leave out is this 5 billion was the CUMULATIVE amount the Ukraine received from the U.S. over the course of a DECADE. Also, the US until very recently (about 2012, I believe) was sending foreign aid dollars to RUSSIA. The U.S. sends foreign aid money a LOT of places. Frankly, 5 billion over the course of a decade is a rather paltry number compared to what the U.S. gives out annually to various countries.

Yet here you are, parroting that number, saying somehow that means the US backed the coup in Ukraine. Let's play a game, every time I see you repeat this statistic without giving out the whole truth, I'll be right there behind you to provide readers with the complete truth. That sounds fun!



posted on Dec, 30 2014 @ 09:12 AM
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a reply to: ScientificRailgun

US foreign aid in most cases goes to building pro american spy networks covert or open.
It gives nothing to ease real economic problems of recipient states.

For example



This $1 billion for Ukraine is a rip-off for the America taxpayer, but it is also a bad deal for Ukrainians, he wrote. Not a single needy Ukrainian will see a penny of this money, as it will be used to bail out international banks who hold Ukrainian government debt.

A longtime opponent of foreign aid, Paul has often criticized the concept for lining the pockets of rich citizens and the ruling class instead of helping the people its intended to.

In addition to funneling money towards the IMF plan, the bill includes funding for outlets such as Radio Free Europe and Voice of America, which Paul said have been used to broadcast US government propaganda into Ukraine for 10 years with little to show for the effort.

Recently a democratically-elected government was overthrown by violent protesters, he wrote. That is the opposite of democracy, where governments are changed by free and fair elections. What is shocking is that the US government and its NGOs were on the side of the protesters!
www.petition2congress.com...


Russians just don't have the audacity to claim that funding RT is "an aid to promote freedom and democracy in USA"
In some way it is indeed opening competition for information flow, but to frame it is an expenditure of Russian State to help USA, for this they need to hire American PR spinner.



posted on Dec, 30 2014 @ 09:18 AM
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a reply to: kitzik

Giving money to pay off a loan is the same as giving what that loan initially bought. So yes, it is still giving.

I'd sure be happy if someone gave me money to pay off my loans!!!



posted on Dec, 30 2014 @ 09:21 AM
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a reply to: noeltrotsky




I'd sure be happy if someone gave me money to pay off my loans!!!



One question : "Are you too big to fail ? "
If not, sorry, our aid is not for the clients like you.



posted on Dec, 30 2014 @ 09:27 AM
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a reply to: ScientificRailgun

This money the US keeps giving out and calling it aid is in fact bribes and $5bn in the Ukraine is like having $25bn in the USA because it will buy you that much more.

Even if i agree that this was sent over a ten year period then would you explain why $500m a year was sent when you have americans dieing because they cannot offord medical treatment and the USA is running a debt at $18tr

The true debt is much higher than $18tr and the true amount they have spent is much higher than $5bn

When the USA spends money in Iraq , Syria, Afganistan , Libya it allways results in bombs of peace being dropped and the Ukraine is just the same but now the USA has been forced out in to the open to say it is sending tanks and men to the Ukraine to fight Putin and his men.

Don't get on to me if Russia sends a few nukes to the USA or that the silence of Germans against Hitlers actions resulted in them getting carbet bombed because its not my fault.



posted on Dec, 30 2014 @ 09:38 AM
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originally posted by: VirusGuard
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

This money the US keeps giving out and calling it aid is in fact bribes and $5bn in the Ukraine is like having $25bn in the USA because it will buy you that much more.

Even if i agree that this was sent over a ten year period then would you explain why $500m a year was sent when you have americans dieing because they cannot offord medical treatment and the USA is running a debt at $18tr

The true debt is much higher than $18tr and the true amount they have spent is much higher than $5bn

When the USA spends money in Iraq , Syria, Afganistan , Libya it allways results in bombs of peace being dropped and the Ukraine is just the same but now the USA has been forced out in to the open to say it is sending tanks and men to the Ukraine to fight Putin and his men.

Don't get on to me if Russia sends a few nukes to the USA or that the silence of Germans against Hitlers actions resulted in them getting carbet bombed because its not my fault.



You really, honestly want Russia to start WWIII don't you?

What a deranged world view.

Look, the US sends foreign aid money to LOTS on countries. Libya, yes. Iraq, yes. Afghanistan, yes. They ALSO send aid money to India, South America, Central America, and dozens of other countries. Are you saying we're bombing all of them too? Don't just single out countries where conflict has taken place and claim victory. Again, you're not telling the whole story. You're cherrypicking facts to support your pro-putin agenda.

Nice deflection, by the way. "Oh well why is the U.S. spending money if they're in debt and U.S. people are homeless"
It's called good foreign policy. Something Russia would do well to take note of.



posted on Dec, 30 2014 @ 09:49 AM
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a reply to: ScientificRailgun




Nice deflection, by the way. "Oh well why is the U.S. spending money if they're in debt and U.S. people are homeless"


In all seriousness, in your case I would investigate if there was indeed 5 bln $ US aid approved by congress. I'm not saying it wasn't, or may be it was. I wouldn't rely on some Nuland's occasionally dropped word to boast in front of Ukranians during their
"demoratic revolution against pro russian evil president" lol. Even in case of Israel USA aid is often just a slightly disguised military contract with rebate.

One thing I would agree Russia stupidly forgiving debts instead of constant calling any business or propaganda as an aid.
rt.com... Russia writes off 32 bln $US
Why Russia forgiving such huge amounts of money and not receiving even thank you, very stupid. Better to act like America.
Sell some aircraft to Syria with a small rebate and call it an aid. Sell some dubious engine to propel failed american bussines to launch a rocket to the Moon lol and call it an aid.

And never never forgive any debt



Russian official say that debts hamper the development of commercial and economic ties between countries. One may have an official approach to this problem. The debt and the pressure from a creditor may only boost the development of those ties. Many developing states are rich with natural resources, so they could successfully repay their debts with those resources. If they could not, then they would have to repay their debt plus interest to Russia, as international laws stipulate. France was waiting for a hundred years for the debts of tsarist Russia to be repaid. Why couldn't Paris just write those debts off during the Soviet era?

The French strongly refused to forgive the tsarist debt. The legal entity in the face of tsarist Russia, which borrowed money from France, stopped its existence. The USSR, which replaced tsarist Russia, refused to even say a word about it. The French could have written off the debt after the collapse of the Soviet Union. However, Russia fully repaid the tsarist debt to France.

english.pravda.ru...



edit on 30-12-2014 by kitzik because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 30 2014 @ 03:30 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra


Seems in your books, anybody who stands for the interests of Russia is bad and to be blamed for every problem around the globe. That is long term policy of the West.

Don't worry about Putin too much though. Even if he resigns for some reason, Kremlin will make sure that new man in charge is strong and has good intentions to safeguard Russian interests.



posted on Dec, 30 2014 @ 03:34 PM
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originally posted by: Vasa Croe
a reply to: lostbook

I say we may as well get it over with already. War is going to be constantly threatened by someone until another world war happens. This generation is not old enough to know what that looks like and once it happens it will become clear that we need to change....that is until a few more generations from now when it happens all over again. War is inevitable really....it will always happen, whether it be on a world scale or a country scale.


Not necessarily.. it may not happen.. because it is just as likely wise men
might frequent the seats of power as unwise men.

Survival is a basic instinct!



posted on Dec, 30 2014 @ 03:38 PM
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a reply to: ufoorbhunter




Their democratically elected ally getting overthrown by a western backed Nazi coup.


And just as corrupt as his master Mr. Putin.

Care to provide some evidence of this, because you must have missed the impeachment that he ran from leaving his position open to being removed. But I guess it is just easier to blame the US than it is to see the truth.



He's got every right to act in the manner he does.


And that gives him the right to invade and annex part of a sovereign nation, and back separatists in the east with weapons and troops?



posted on Dec, 30 2014 @ 03:42 PM
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a reply to: VirusGuard




Even if i agree that this was sent over a ten year period


There is no debating that as it was what happened.



but now the USA has been forced out in to the open to say it is sending tanks and men to the Ukraine to fight Putin and his men.


Care to provide a source for this?




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