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Reliable historical accounts of Jesus.

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posted on Jan, 1 2015 @ 04:22 PM
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a reply to: Grimpachi

I can tell you man to man pach your perception of
the wording is inaccurate. And the questions themselves
were asked on a level playing field and parallel only the
same line of play previously opened by Windword. And
as being between him and I should be something you
don't know enough about, to make such an observation
outside of your own mind. The wording is flammable but
in no way a deep seeded harsh indictment. If it was anyone
else I doubt I would even have answered you.

edit on Rpm10115v242015u22 by randyvs because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 1 2015 @ 04:28 PM
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a reply to: randyvs

I appreciate your reply and I am glad to be wrong. If it is nothing more than a tit for tat banter then it is all good. All to often such things can spiral downward from perceptive misunderstandings.

Anyway Happy New Year



posted on Jan, 1 2015 @ 04:29 PM
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originally posted by: Tangerine
a reply to: Agree2Disagree

I thought Heaven was supposed to be perfect.

Yes, there's a big difference between adultery and murder/child molesting. I'd say it's up to the victim of the lie/crime to decide whether they should forgive it. The criminal justice system should not.

No, I wouldn't offer a second chance to a child molester or cold-blooded murderer, but that's just me.


Heaven is perfected in the sense that there is no evil...no suffering.

And if you notice, these are your opinions. What happens when you are placed in a different culture with different standards? Maybe justice there is not the same as it is where you are....What about things like abortion? Where do you draw the line and say "well, I am not suited to judge that particular circumstance"?

The perfect world scenario really isn't a very solid argument for those reasons. In our human minds, degrees of justice vary from person to person...In a perfect world though, justice would be absolute. Which, given the christian definition and examples of justice, which come from the Christian God, they WOULD be absolute....If there were no God, no ultimate being, there would be no ultimate form of justice....Then again, that's my thoughts on the matter and anyone that knows me, knows I don't mind differing opinions....that's what makes us unique.

Cheers friend,
A2D



posted on Jan, 1 2015 @ 04:48 PM
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a reply to: randyvs

If my example of Christianity is "a crock of ####" then so is yours about reincarnation. Sorry for being vague. Same same.



posted on Jan, 1 2015 @ 04:53 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Well that just may be true then!




posted on Jan, 1 2015 @ 09:08 PM
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To those who don't believe in the bible, I have a few questions?

Even if their are some bible versus that were later added or mistranslated - is that a reason to reject its entire content?

Have those mistranslations, additions or subtractions cause someone to fall away from their faith and stumble to sin? Because of these errors (minor) does this give us the right to reject the entire bible and its teachings? Does not the bible give sound advice on how to live?

Applying the teachings of the bible into your everyday life - is this a hardship for you or a blessing?

Refusing the teachings of the bible has this been a blessing on your life? Please explain how?

Will God punish those who follow and try to live up to the teachings of the bible or will he punish those who refuse to live by it and refuse and disown its teachings?
edit on 1-1-2015 by DeathSlayer because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 1 2015 @ 09:31 PM
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originally posted by: Agree2Disagree

originally posted by: Tangerine
a reply to: Agree2Disagree

I thought Heaven was supposed to be perfect.

Yes, there's a big difference between adultery and murder/child molesting. I'd say it's up to the victim of the lie/crime to decide whether they should forgive it. The criminal justice system should not.

No, I wouldn't offer a second chance to a child molester or cold-blooded murderer, but that's just me.


Heaven is perfected in the sense that there is no evil...no suffering.

And if you notice, these are your opinions. What happens when you are placed in a different culture with different standards? Maybe justice there is not the same as it is where you are....What about things like abortion? Where do you draw the line and say "well, I am not suited to judge that particular circumstance"?

The perfect world scenario really isn't a very solid argument for those reasons. In our human minds, degrees of justice vary from person to person...In a perfect world though, justice would be absolute. Which, given the christian definition and examples of justice, which come from the Christian God, they WOULD be absolute....If there were no God, no ultimate being, there would be no ultimate form of justice....Then again, that's my thoughts on the matter and anyone that knows me, knows I don't mind differing opinions....that's what makes us unique.

Cheers friend,
A2D


Heaven is a belief. Nothing more.

Of course I was expressing my opinion. I seem to recall that you were asking for opinions. I'm not in a different culture. I'm in this culture. I absolutely am not suited to make a decision about abortion for any woman. It's her body and her choice. Period. I am entitled to have an opinion about her decision but that doesn't translate to making the decision for her.

What Christian God? All ideas about the Christian God come from humans, so they're human ideas after all.

I also don't have a problem with people disagreeing with me.



posted on Jan, 1 2015 @ 09:35 PM
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originally posted by: DeathSlayer
To those who don't believe in the bible, I have a few questions?

Even if their are some bible versus that were later added or mistranslated - is that a reason to reject its entire content?

Have those mistranslations, additions or subtractions cause someone to fall away from their faith and stumble to sin? Because of these errors (minor) does this give us the right to reject the entire bible and its teachings? Does not the bible give sound advice on how to live?

Applying the teachings of the bible into your everyday life - is this a hardship for you or a blessing?

Refusing the teachings of the bible has this been a blessing on your life? Please explain how?

Will God punish those who follow and try to live up to the teachings of the bible or will he punish those who refuse to live by it and refuse and disown its teachings?


A reason to reject the Bible as the word of God is that it was written by men and there isn't an iota of testable evidence proving that God even exists. Having read it, I can say that's it's a pretty vile book, no matter who wrote it.

Sin is an offense against God. No God = no sin. That is not to say that people don't harm others.

Everything good in the Bible can be found outside the Bible so it's certainly not needed to promote goodness.

Again, what God?



posted on Jan, 1 2015 @ 09:38 PM
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originally posted by: Entreri06

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: windword

Because of all the evidence, or because it allows you to believe
you are the only authority over the body and the life that you
have? And you can take life for granted and be absolutely thankless
to no one? Or maybe it's because secular society doesn't give a crap
if that's your faith? As long as their not threatened by it right?
How very passive? And what a cop out.


The same could be said about Christianity and Jesus' sacrifice, it makes people feel like they can do whatever as long as they believe in Jesus.

You can believe in reincarnation and still be a truly good person, the idea of reincarnation isn't as dark and immoral as you seem to think. No one is left out with reincarnation, the majority are left out with Christianity.


I agree with you. In Christianity, the worst child predators and murderers all go to heaven! They all discover Jesus in jail. So according to the bible they all get paradise. Mother Teresa who lost faith however, is burning in hell for all eternity!! How much sense does that make?


Actually, Mother Teresa wasn't all she was cracked up to be. As for Hell, I doubt it.



posted on Jan, 1 2015 @ 10:09 PM
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a reply to: DeathSlayer




To those who don't believe in the bible, I have a few questions?

Even if their are some bible versus that were later added or mistranslated - is that a reason to reject its entire content?

Have those mistranslations, additions or subtractions cause someone to fall away from their faith and stumble to sin? Because of these errors (minor) does this give us the right to reject the entire bible and its teachings? Does not the bible give sound advice on how to live?


Well first off people can live perfectly good lives without biblical inference. Second I think it does matter when you have added verses and mistranslations especially when it deals with the divinity of central figures. Such as was Jesus the son of god well that depends on what century book you refer to the earlier copies did not paint him as the son of god and the one book where he claimed he was god is questionable earlier versions didn't have that claim. You have main tenets such as the trinity which were added later by the church. So if you have important things like that known to be in question it really does affect the reliability of said book.




Applying the teachings of the bible into your everyday life - is this a hardship for you or a blessing?

Refusing the teachings of the bible has this been a blessing on your life? Please explain how?

Will God punish those who follow and try to live up to the teachings of the bible or will he punish those who refuse to live by it and refuse and disown its teachings?


Who is to say that god or those teachings are the correct ones? I am sure those that follow the Quran believe theirs is the correct way same can be said for believers in every religion.

Overall though you are simply making a plea in a Pascals Wager form. In essence saying one should believe just in case it is real. I would much prefer to believe in things that are proven to be real because truth of life is far more appealing and worthy a thing to live by.



posted on Jan, 2 2015 @ 01:37 AM
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a reply to: Grimpachi




Well first off people can live perfectly good lives without biblical inference.


And "good" will only keep you out of jail. You need to have your sins atoned for to be in the presence of God for eternity.



posted on Jan, 2 2015 @ 01:46 AM
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a reply to: NOTurTypical

Or there is Karma which does not need a god. Then again the entire sin thing is probably a bunch of nonsense.

Anyway, from what I gathered the Christian Abrahamic god isn't about atonement there is no real justice in that system but as far as I can tell the abusive father figure god type in that story has a lot to atone for himself.

It is fine if you want to believe in that sort of stuff just takes some mental gymnastics to get through which I can't seem to perform.



posted on Jan, 2 2015 @ 07:07 AM
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a reply to: Grimpachi




Anyway, from what I gathered the Christian Abrahamic god isn't about atonement there is no real justice in that system


Then you don't understand the cross then, God had a law and for us to be free from that law God would have to die. So how does an infinite, eternal God die?

Socrates understood the dilemma, why not you?

"It may be that the deity can forgive sins, but I do not see how."



posted on Jan, 2 2015 @ 07:28 AM
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originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Grimpachi




Anyway, from what I gathered the Christian Abrahamic god isn't about atonement there is no real justice in that system


Then you don't understand the cross then, God had a law and for us to be free from that law God would have to die. So how does an infinite, eternal God die?

Socrates understood the dilemma, why not you?

"It may be that the deity can forgive sins, but I do not see how."



So god had god had to die to save us from himself? He (God) knows he couldn't break the rules that he made for himself, with only him to enforce....



posted on Jan, 2 2015 @ 08:59 AM
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a reply to: NOTurTypical




Then you don't understand the cross then, God had a law and for us to be free from that law God would have to die. So how does an infinite, eternal God die?

Socrates understood the dilemma, why not you?


Could you further explain how Socrates understood the dilemma of a God that had to die to free us from The Law he wrote?

All solar deities died on the celestial Grand Cross of the Zodiac, and rose again, having had defeated the darkness, Hades, death, etc.



posted on Jan, 2 2015 @ 09:10 AM
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originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Grimpachi




Anyway, from what I gathered the Christian Abrahamic god isn't about atonement there is no real justice in that system


Then you don't understand the cross then, God had a law and for us to be free from that law God would have to die. So how does an infinite, eternal God die?

Socrates understood the dilemma, why not you?

"It may be that the deity can forgive sins, but I do not see how."

First off according to some of the earliest accounts a god didn't die on the cross that claim showed up in later copies which were probably changed by the church to claim divinity so that whole god dying on the cross thing is highly suspicious to say the least.

OK I don't really have a qualm with the story of a "man" named Jesus dying on the cross for things he was preaching but there are just to many conflicting stories to be able to claim he was god. Even the story of him being taken to be put on the cross and how he died is suspicious because you have two very different stories of how it went down in different books in the NT.

Even the story about the birth of the man has been found to be a mishmash of two different stories.

That comes from some 1st and 2nd century copies of the NT. He was a man it was the church that claimed he was a god.

Before telling people they don't understand the cross you should find out about the man first.



posted on Jan, 2 2015 @ 09:55 AM
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a reply to: Grimpachi




First off according to some of the earliest accounts a god didn't die on the cross that claim showed up in later copies which were probably changed by the church to claim divinity so that whole god dying on the cross thing is highly suspicious to say the least.


Wrong, check my sig. Jesus was killed for claiming to be God, He was either a liar a lunatic, or Lord. If you ever are confused as to what a 1st century Jew was saying in that culture and not filtered through the lens of a 21st century westerner then just look to the reaction of the Pharisees. They knew exactly what He was claiming to be.



posted on Jan, 2 2015 @ 10:01 AM
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a reply to: windword

Ever wondered why the bible says Cain's face 'fell' ("naphal", 'to fall') and that God (i.e. religion) understood this as an omen, and how Cain 'rose up' ("vayaqam" 'rose up') against his brother?

Abel made monthly blood sacrifices, and blood is connected to the Moon (fertility, female) via Eve's monthly blood sacrifice down the natral way, in form of the menstruation cycle, and we can assume that the blood fests of Abel were, well, bloody. The Moon typically becomes "red as blood" during eclipse seasons-- while life (Eve or Chevvah means Life) and plant growth depends on the Sun (power, male, in the stoneage life depended on plenty of strong sons for the most part), and "on a bad day", the Sun alone can kill a nation as easily and swiftly as breaking a pot.

When you read the text about the story of Cain and Abel next time, try identifying Abel with the Moon, and Cain with the Sun, and you can read out the ancient lore surrounding solar and lunar eclipses. The story of Cain and Abel in Genesis 4 is mythical in all its aspects, an anthropomorphic myth of the significant astrological aspects concerning the Sun and the Moon and their eclipses and also how the how people translated this drama in the sky into different systems of sacrifice and showing in few words that the ultimate consequences of ritual blood sacrifice, be that the blood of beasts (Abel's sacrifice) or the blood of grapes (Cain's sacrifice)-- is unrest and blood-feuds.
edit on 2-1-2015 by Utnapisjtim because: ...



posted on Jan, 2 2015 @ 04:40 PM
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originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Grimpachi




First off according to some of the earliest accounts a god didn't die on the cross that claim showed up in later copies which were probably changed by the church to claim divinity so that whole god dying on the cross thing is highly suspicious to say the least.


Wrong, check my sig. Jesus was killed for claiming to be God, He was either a liar a lunatic, or Lord. If you ever are confused as to what a 1st century Jew was saying in that culture and not filtered through the lens of a 21st century westerner then just look to the reaction of the Pharisees. They knew exactly what He was claiming to be.





Actually, there's not an iota of evidence that he was killed, said anything, or even lived.



posted on Jan, 3 2015 @ 07:10 PM
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a reply to: Tangerine

Here we go again..

Okay, according to the gospel accounts Jesus ......




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