Missing Plane Air Asia

I can't stop to ask myself why there would be no further requests from the pilot after asking to ascend and being denied. From the data, I gather they were ascending regardless, and clearance never arrived to the plane because they lost signal before they were notified and no distress signal was sent from the plane.
So I have a hard time thinking that a pilot, regardless of his training, would not try to contact ATC even just to say they were ascending anyway or that they had strange readings for the air speed, especially after AF447 accident.

I also have a hard time believing that ATC isn't able to guesstimate air speed by knowing ground speed, angle and wind speed from meteo data, so while I do understand well why ground speed isn't the best info, do you really think that people working in the field would rely only on that number to draw a conclusion?
After all this is not the middle of the atlantic ocean, it's a rather covered area in an area with incredibly dense population over a shallow sea, it won't take much to find debris of some kind, not even a relict under the sea.

I found this article translate.google.com... where there is a map of the radars and some info regarding intercepted aircrafts. After 9/11 I'd bet that as as soon as ATC reports a missing aircraft some ears and eyes would be pointed to the area, not hours later but rather immediatedly, and then someone will have to take actions. I doubt "we don't know" is an acceptable answer for national security purposes, am I wrong?

So we have a plane disappearing without a mayday in a place that is something like a radar dead-zone, during a storm, seemingly ascending without clearance at a low ground speed, maybe stalling, maybe because the sensors were frozen.
If it just didn't happen in this area I'd say it would be treated like a "normal" accident. However I can't really believe we have already been given all the informations, somebody must know more and can't reveal it for security reasons because i doubt military forces in the world wouldn't waste an hour of infrared (or whatever advanced tech they have) satellite view to scan the zone.

Given that the sea the plane went down in is supposedly really shallow, what affect will this have on finding the aircraft anyway? I assume that any eventual sonar searches would be harder because the same angle from a sonar device would give a lesser area of sea floor, but how much would the lack of depth restrict the propagation of any signals from the pingers on the FDR/CVR?

a reply to: Mastronaut

Exactly, more will be known but hasn't been released.

There is variance between the flightradar24 times, the ATC times and the leaked ATC times.

00:12 Flightradar24 FL320 469 knots
00:18 ATC report FL? knots?
00:24 ATC leaked screen FL363 353 knots

There should be GPS from phones going off radar at a certain point also, as MH370 no information on phone signals (from satellites whilst in air) as yet.

Just a little reminder:

The guy who predicted this 2 weeks ago said it would become another "MH370 event"
So maybe he knew everything about it and all we will get are rumours but no facts.

Now
I'm not a crazy conspiracy guy and I certainly do not believe everything even when guys claim that they have so much evidence to back their theory.

But now we pretty much know that there are Insiders who know a lot more than the rest of the world and willing to warn people.

So what if the theory that MH370 would re-appear in a 9/11 type event originally came from some insider?

That would make 2 planes since MH17 was shot down.
2 planes Just like 9/11.

Just a little thought.

Still not losing hope on survivors. Still hoping for the best possible outcome because you never know...

originally posted by: charlyv
a reply to: Zaphod58

So the service ceiling being around 40k ft., what would you consider absolute ceiling where damage would likely start to occur?
I know other factors have to be taken into account, but wondered what it might take to break this plane up, if indeed that did happen.

Its a pretty sturdy plane, but Damage can occur at any altitude in severe turbulence if mishandled. Caught in an severe updraft, the wings will stall and at this stage it is fairly easy to mishandle the attitude producing structural failure.
Pilots usually use best penetration speed in moderate to severe turbulence.

a reply to: charlyv

Having been airborne for such a short time, they wouldn't get much over 38,000. Ceiling for the 320 is somewhere around 41-42,000.

Hit a big storm wrong at 20,000 and you'll bend the airplane. We used to always have to fix dents and repaint our jets after coming back from Asia. They'd fly through a storm and the rain and hail would strip paint off the leading edges.

originally posted by: jaffo


Exactly. It's pretty much ruined this site. There's pretty much a race anymore just to be the first one to say "Something doesn't smell right." Like the pathetic Sony thread that can't make up its mind whether Sony did this to somehow magically make more money than they would have in the theaters or whether the government did it to...well, to do *something* anyway. People anymore are just playing the role around here, racing to be the first cool kid to say he doesn't believe the "official story." Again, it's sad and it waters down real thought and research with garbage and clutter.

I agree 100%. I am a debunker, but sometimes I truly believe something sounds fishy. If you don't play the conspiracy game though, sometimes your posts are ignored. It's like some don't want to play with you because you're not fanning the flames of conspiracy when there clearly is none. I usually try to avoid those threads altogether but sometimes I am just trying to offer logic, rather bluntly and that might be part of my problem.

originally posted by: jaffo


Exactly. It's pretty much ruined this site. There's pretty much a race anymore just to be the first one to say "Something doesn't smell right." Like the pathetic Sony thread that can't make up its mind whether Sony did this to somehow magically make more money than they would have in the theaters or whether the government did it to...well, to do *something* anyway. People anymore are just playing the role around here, racing to be the first cool kid to say he doesn't believe the "official story." Again, it's sad and it waters down real thought and research with garbage and clutter.

ATS was created by conspiracy theorist and every member has their own opinion including debunkers. It makes great debate which i love about the ATS community.

The only people who is ruining this site is you thinking that your logic opinion is worth more than others and the world evolves around you. People can believe what they want to believe and bring forward the facts and research so the members can judge for themselves.

a reply to: Zaphod58

A320 ceiling is either 39,100 or 39,800 depending on if it has some modification.

See Southern Air 242 for a fatal dose of thunderstorm damage.

a reply to: Zaphod58

The ceiling for A320 as I posted before is 42000.

Airbus

If you look at the data on all the similar flights it is obvious that at FL363 the calculated groundspeed as shown on the radar recording is normally around 100 knots more than 353, all are showing around 450+ knots for similar flights in the area.

As I already posted, groundspeed can be affected by winds but regardless, even in normal conditions 353 is too slow for that altitude and climbing.

Similar flights to QZ8501 that PK-AXC took including altitude and speed, for comparing.
www.flightradar24.com...

I have said this on another thread, I get random voices and visual attacks that are loud and evil. Last spring I was kept awake for a week hearing the end of the world, and seeing events frozen in time. While I was walking near my place, which was near the airport I look and see an airplane, flying north and really low and made no sound, then I look down as not to trip, and look back it wasn't there. I should have heard it, but I know my voices have had prediction capabilities in the past. I no longer hear those kind of attacks, but it leaves me wondering if they were trying to warn me.

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: Zaphod58

The ceiling for A320 as I posted before is 42000.

My A-319/A-320 Operating Manual indicates otherwise.

It's also funny how all the speeds in this manual are in Knots Indicated Air Speed.

Hi,

I don't know if that has been posted already, as I have - unfortunately - no time to read the whole thread from the beginning, but I noticed an interesing irregularity in a BBC report on QZ8501:

www.youtube.com...

Note the plane that approaches QZ8501 from the left at 1:25. It kind of flips over and changes its course radically towards the former...

I don't know what exactly to make of this and I am rather not into "conspiracy theories". But as a security analyst, this irregularity occuring at approx. the position the plane lost contact to ground control made me raise my eyebrowe...

Cheers!

www.infowars.com... A mysterious Chinese blogger claims to have predicted this flight would be targeted by a group called "black hand".

Indonesia is now asking for US help in the SAR efforts.

Differences between this flight and MH370

Live Science article that lays out some of the differences between AirAsia and MH370 disappearances.

a reply to: analyst2014

It looks like a common glitch in the tracking software. I use Flightradar24(where this came from) and Flightaware a lot and I'll see these kind of "spikes" in the flight paths when in reality that didn't happen.

a reply to: justwanttofly

My FCOM say 39100ft fleet wide.

It's also funny how all the speeds in this manual are in Knots Indicated Air Speed

Max tire speed would be ground speed, no?

I don't know why some posters are hammering on about groundspeed and stall, stall is a matter of AOA and nothing else

And ground speed is for cars, in the air we use airspeed

Your a debunker so your goal in life is to prove people wrong Well ain't you a high achiever it must be people like you who bring the totally redickolous to this site the fact of the matter is 3 Malaysian planes have met a grisly end and there is no such thing as coincidence in the world of science now there is more than likely a conspiracy(an agreement between persons to deceive) a foot there is no doubt with my17 there is an agreement between people to deceive who actually brought it down and I reckon somebody somewhere knows what happened to mh 370 so there is more than likely another agreement between people to deceive on that one so the question is. Is this tragedy part of either of them conspiracy and the biggest question is why the hell would somebody like you be on a conspiracy site in the first place if not only to muddy the waters I find you "debunker s" normally just resort back to utter lies and say the people whom debunked the lies you spout are lyers so people like you bring nothing constructive to the table and should be ignored 18814230]StoutBroux[/post]

originally posted by: takers888

originally posted by: jaffo


Exactly. It's pretty much ruined this site. There's pretty much a race anymore just to be the first one to say "Something doesn't smell right." Like the pathetic Sony thread that can't make up its mind whether Sony did this to somehow magically make more money than they would have in the theaters or whether the government did it to...well, to do *something* anyway. People anymore are just playing the role around here, racing to be the first cool kid to say he doesn't believe the "official story." Again, it's sad and it waters down real thought and research with garbage and clutter.

ATS was created by conspiracy theorist and every member has their own opinion including debunkers. It makes great debate which i love about the ATS community.

The only people who is ruining this site is you thinking that your logic opinion is worth more than others and the world evolves around you. People can believe what they want to believe and bring forward the facts and research so the members can judge for themselves.

Being free to believe in anything you want does not leave you free from looking silly or dragging down genuine debate and discussion when you bring no actual LOGIC or FACTS or PROOF to the table. I could get on here and spout all kinds of garbage, blaming the tooth fairy for this plane's issues. I could do that with no PROOF or LOGIC or FACTS, just like so many others choose to do these days...I just don't like wasting other peoples' time with nonsense. So yeah, you can post whatever gibberish you want, but unless it has AT LEAST A SHRED of logic, reason, facts, or proofs, it's just a bunch of nonsense wasting time and dragging this site down. Like I keep saying, "something doesn't smell right" and "well, I just don't buy it" ARE NOT "theories" by any stretch of the imagination or definition of the word.