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Jesus; an Essene (Paul interpreted blasphomy) would not be known as Christians; instead Gnostics

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posted on Dec, 28 2014 @ 12:39 PM
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a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb




Oh joy the whole Muslim argument that Christianity was made up by Paul .


Don't pay any mind to people who haven't read Acts chapter 15.




posted on Dec, 28 2014 @ 12:52 PM
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a reply to: NOTurTypical

The thief at Calvary was saved by grace. He couldn't have made the sacrifice at the temple because his hands and feet were nailed to a Roman cross.
The gospels do not say that the thief was nailed to his cross.
Are you saying that otherwise the thief would have sacrificed to be forgiven?



posted on Dec, 28 2014 @ 01:02 PM
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a reply to: NOTurTypical

Not one book of the Bible has a signature at the end of it.
2 Thessalonians does.
"I, Paul, write this greeting in my own hand,"
The word, "Paul", in the original letter would constitute what we would call today a signature.
You see the same thing at the end of 1 Corinthians.
"I, Paul, write this greeting in my own hand."


edit on 28-12-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 28 2014 @ 01:07 PM
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originally posted by: NOTurTypical

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: NOTurTypical




Businessmen/women dictate letters to their secretaries every day. It carries the legal weight if they themselves put pen to paper.


But even in those cases, messages are put on "Official Letterhead" and an authentic signature is included. That's not so with the biblical messages.



Not one book of the Bible has a signature at the end of it.


No, they're titled, supposedly, as some sort of signature. For example, we now know that Matthew and Mark were not written by Matthew or Mark who supposedly walked with Jesus. We know that a lot of Isaiah was written well after Isiah supposedly lived.

There is a LOT of known forgeries in both the New and Old Testament. That alone makes it impossible to believe that any biblical scripture is "God's dictated word".


edit on 28-12-2014 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 28 2014 @ 01:19 PM
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originally posted by: vethumanbeing
originally posted by: deadeyedick

a reply to: veteranhumanbeing




deadeyedick: It is interesting what most of us go through during those yrs. Then add in all the legends of the rowen berries making one 30yrs old for extended time periods. I have the belief that knowledge is taken from us during those ages in order to protect the knowledge. I know many things today that i would have told you 10 yrs ago but if i did we would not have made it here today.


Mostly a courageous sense of 'survival mode' (how do I do this) feed myself and family and discover some sense of faith in a system that works for me (I am so busy am blind to the process) and certainly if remembered it I would not share it as it is an entirely personal process; looking for, examining my relationship with a higher being/MYSELF/to a God being). Some things must remain so because to tell would limit another's possibility of understanding THEIR PROCESS to ENLIGHTENMENT (always the goal).


I think that Jesus pulled a fast one on everyone. Actually it was told on the colbert report as a goof called Mananna Bananna.
Jesus as a child of 4 or 5 was lonely so they turned a bananna into a person. After a couple months the boy went into the future to today's time and the brother to him the bananna carried out the mission of Jesus. They skipped the whole growing up part cause the bananna was already grown up so he went about fullfilling the role. This is why there is a gap in the history of Jesus because it never happened. Even though there is no scripture that says this specifically the whole timeline in the book does fit this crazy notion. This answers many questions about the ages of the ones around Jesus during his life. It also ties in your personal view that you have put forth through the yrs here as well as mine.



posted on Dec, 28 2014 @ 01:25 PM
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a reply to: windword





No, they're titled, supposedly, as some sort of signature.


No, they aren't titled either, those are the titles that have been attributed to them over time. Your point is moot. In that period of time an amanuensis was a paid profession. Many folks were illiterate, like Peter.



posted on Dec, 28 2014 @ 01:28 PM
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originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: NOTurTypical

The thief at Calvary was saved by grace. He couldn't have made the sacrifice at the temple because his hands and feet were nailed to a Roman cross.
The gospels do not say that the thief was nailed to his cross.
Are you saying that otherwise the thief would have sacrificed to be forgiven?



No, pointing out that Jesus first demonstrated that grace is through faith, not the law or works. And it's irrelevant that the gospels don't mention the thief was nailed to the cross, it's an obvious fact if he was being crucified along side Jesus. The gospels also don't mention that Peter ever had a bowl movement, but it's obvious he did have them, he was human.



posted on Dec, 28 2014 @ 01:30 PM
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originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: NOTurTypical

Not one book of the Bible has a signature at the end of it.
2 Thessalonians does.
"I, Paul, write this greeting in my own hand,"
The word, "Paul", in the original letter would constitute what we would call today a signature.
You see the same thing at the end of 1 Corinthians.
"I, Paul, write this greeting in my own hand."



That's in the body of the letter, many epistles say that. I said none of the epistles have a "signature" (signed name) at the bottom of them.



posted on Dec, 28 2014 @ 01:54 PM
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a reply to: NOTurTypical

You said:


Jesus dictated 7 epistles in the first 3 chapters of Revelation.


As a counter, Anutyr said:


someone telling someone else to write something down does not count as writing it down yourself.
The information may be claimed from another source but without verified proof. It is the word of the individual whos hand is striking the parchment.


To which you answered:


Businessmen/women dictate letters to their secretaries every day. It carries the legal weight if they themselves put pen to paper.


Then I pointed out that business men and women have methods of authenticating their messages and that the Bible has many authenticity problems, to which you assert:



Your point is moot


Please! So, you're just trolling now?

Jesus never wrote a word of the bible. Period. To assert anything else is pure superstition.






edit on 28-12-2014 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 28 2014 @ 02:08 PM
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a reply to: windword

That is like saying that Jesus has never interviened in any persons life either. It goes against the whole christian faith that says that he is with us and guides us on our path. It is just an effort to undermine the faith of believers in christ and his power. Our human understanding of spiritual forces will never answer with truth. It always boils down to doubt and faith.



posted on Dec, 28 2014 @ 02:22 PM
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a reply to: deadeyedick




That is like saying that Jesus has never interviened in any persons life either.


Um, no it's not.



It is just an effort to undermine the faith of believers in christ and his power.


Believing that Jesus dictated any book of the Bible is no different than believing that God actually dictated the first 5 books of the Bible, or that the Bible is the inerrant word of God.


edit on 28-12-2014 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 28 2014 @ 02:23 PM
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a reply to: NOTurTypical

. . . gospels don't mention the thief was nailed to the cross, it's an obvious fact if he was . . .
It isn't "obvious" since they represented three levels of seriousness of crimes, with the thief being the lowest, then the murderer, and then the leader of an insurrection.
There would have been three levels of severity of punishment, with Jesus getting the worst, most painful method.

I don't think that the narrative in the story that you were citing was meant to be a theological explanation but is only a reference to how even in the manner of his death, Jesus exemplified perfect righteousness that would compel belief in one who witnessed it.



posted on Dec, 28 2014 @ 02:32 PM
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a reply to: windword

So do you believe that Jesus can speak to you and influence your life but could not influence the creation of books in the bible and that God does not have control in the creation of the world and everything in it?
edit on 28-12-2014 by deadeyedick because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 28 2014 @ 02:34 PM
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a reply to: NOTurTypical

I said none of the epistles have a "signature" (signed name) at the bottom of them.
Nope, that is wrong.
You said "end".



posted on Dec, 28 2014 @ 03:05 PM
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originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: NOTurTypical

I said none of the epistles have a "signature" (signed name) at the bottom of them.
Nope, that is wrong.
You said "end".



The end of the letter is the bottom of the page. Unless there is some language the books were written in where they read from bottom to top?



posted on Dec, 28 2014 @ 03:08 PM
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a reply to: jmdewey60




It isn't "obvious" since they represented three levels of seriousness of crimes, with the thief being the lowest, then the murderer, and then the leader of an insurrection. There would have been three levels of severity of punishment, with Jesus getting the worst, most painful method.


Wrong, all three men were crucified at Calvary. And Jesus did get the worst punishment, he was severely beaten and scourged first before being crucified.



posted on Dec, 28 2014 @ 03:09 PM
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a reply to: windword




Jesus never wrote a word of the bible. Period. To assert anything else is pure superstition.


So should we call 1 Peter "1 Silvanus"?



posted on Dec, 28 2014 @ 03:29 PM
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a reply to: NOTurTypical

That's a non sequitur response.



posted on Dec, 28 2014 @ 03:32 PM
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originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Akragon




Pauls idea of Grace is Purely Paul...


The thief at Calvary was saved by grace. He couldn't have made the sacrifice at the temple because his hands and feet were nailed to a Roman cross.



Nah... He was saved by his own repentance to the Lord...

Not by something Paul made up... Temple sacrifice does not forgive anything... Never has

Blood does not forgive sin my friend...

But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.




posted on Dec, 28 2014 @ 03:32 PM
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originally posted by: windword
a reply to: NOTurTypical

That's a non sequitur response.



No it isn't, Silvanus wrote 1st Peter for him as an amanuensis. So should we call 1 Peter "1 Silvanus"?



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