Eustace Conway Mountain Man Under Zoning Scrutiny

originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: Annee

Yes Annee he did end up getting exemption by a state bill no less. Unanimously passed by state house and senate.

That's what I thought.

If you have updated info, would love to see it.

In November, 2012, Turtle Island was forced to shut down public access because its traditional buildings violated building codes.[10] In mid-December, 2012 Conway appeared to make progress toward reaching a resolution with the North Carolina Building Code Council.[11] However, immediately following this apparent progress with the code council, Conway was arrested for trespassing on a neighbor's property in a dispute over the property border, continuing the legal challenges to Turtle Island.[12] Conway's problems with the North Carolina Building Code Council quickly gained notice of state officials. The North Carolina General Assembly[13] stepped in, proposing an exemption to building code requirements for primitive structures.[14] Both the state's House and Senate voted unanimously to pass H774.[15] The bill was signed into law by Governor Pat McCrory on June 12, 2013. This ordeal was described in a Fox News special War on the Little Guy, hosted by John Stossel. en.m.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: deadeyedick
I think you may be wrong about the mortgage. He took out a loan to buy some land around him. Perhaps it is paid off by now but i suspect that some fine print in the papers he signed allowed them to have concern over his property. They need to leave him alone but let's be honest they have no need for someone who is not dependant on there system and they see the timber on his land as money to them if they get him to go under. Now they will start to fine him and allow the amount to get out of hand. Everyone should stand together for him.

Can't get a mortgage from a bank for vacant land. Maybe a private lender and it seems like that's what this guy would choose.

a reply to: Logarock

I can live with "balance" but I'm not just playing devils advocate. What I would like to do is provide insight as a professional.
Let me take on the only point you responded to: " I would like to point out, in regards to you calling his situation a "deathtrap" that hundreds die each year in modern and all coded up domestic structures. Smoke detectors are never a bad idea anywhere." So if hundreds die in "safe" structures, imagine how unsafe his buildings are. If anything this proves my point. Also to make a more hypothetical point (because something tells me that fire trucks don't go to his neck of the woods), not only are the residents who live there in danger, but the firefighters are endangered by a confusing layout or substandard construction. Nothing in life is 100% safe but we do our best to DECREASE THE POSSIBILITY. As I stated earlier If he was a hermit, I would support his decision to live in a volcano, while sleeping on broken glass. Whatever he wants, but the second he accepts cash, or food, coon skins, beaver pelts, hemp etc. in exchange for boarding, he be becomes a landlord with responsibilities.

originally posted by: PinealJockey
a reply to: Logarock

I can live with "balance" but I'm not just playing devils advocate. What I would like to do is provide insight as a professional.
Let me take on the only point you responded to: " I would like to point out, in regards to you calling his situation a "deathtrap" that hundreds die each year in modern and all coded up domestic structures. Smoke detectors are never a bad idea anywhere." So if hundreds die in "safe" structures, imagine how unsafe his buildings are. If anything this proves my point. Also to make a more hypothetical point (because something tells me that fire trucks don't go to his neck of the woods), not only are the residents who live there in danger, but the firefighters are endangered by a confusing layout or substandard construction. Nothing in life is 100% safe but we do our best to DECREASE THE POSSIBILITY. As I stated earlier If he was a hermit, I would support his decision to live in a volcano, while sleeping on broken glass. Whatever he wants, but the second he accepts cash, or food, coon skins, beaver pelts, hemp etc. in exchange for boarding, he be becomes a landlord with responsibilities.

I don't disagree with what you said, but do people choosing to stay in his camp, accept any responsibility for their welfare as well? Like climbing Mt. Everest with a guide. If you die, whose fault was it? Or any other risky endeavor where another is assisting - jumping out of planes, tethered from bridges, etc. I know that if I were to stay in his compound, there would be a certain risk associated with doing so.

Oh by the way I'm a building professional of sorts too

Sounds like the man being interviewed at the county building was ok with sending people out to the camp and saying that everything is not legal, but yet he could not really answer any of the questions from the woman.
Pretty much how most government officials answer questions. ...I don't know. .that's not revelant to the question. .never a straight answer.

Yes as you may know about building codes. Much like the police knowing about state laws that violate the constitution. And nothing about the constitution they swear by. He does have rights to his land and he can keep out all those inspectors legally. He now has the info on how. Not to worry he will prevail. Death trap BS those are built better than your house. Codes are mostly money makers, yes some are for safety. But most are to make you dependent on gov and make money. I would share the info, but then it would be useless when he went to use it, as they would create a loophole to F!@# him. A dog house that needs water, get real. a reply to: PinealJockey

.

a reply to: Bilk22

And I don't necessarily disagree with you either except I wonder, are there children there? They can't make that decision and the parents may not know any better. Again the responsibility falls on the landlord. It s interesting to know that you (sort of) see my point considering you are in the biz. My opinion, after all, is not based on ideology, it's informed by experience. When I first started out, I used to get off on getting zoning variances and building code variances, like I was fighting the man. But only rarely was I helping someone who was not for profit. I have my critique of the building code. Mainly its about the overuse of sprinklers to allow the reduction of construction quality. But it is valid and should be enforced
Of course its a moot point, considering Eustice played ball after all and got his variances. I don't know what the trespassing charge was all about. I guess thats for another thread.

Have any of you actually read some of the "does not comply to code" complaints?

Such as not "handicap accessible". Seriously? My mom was "handicapped". She would never think about going to a wilderness camp.

Such as no hand railing across a small creek. Sometimes society rules just don't apply.

If there had been any significant injuries. Would they ever have gotten their exemptions?

originally posted by: Bilk22

originally posted by: deadeyedick

I think you may be wrong about the mortgage. He took out a loan to buy some land around him. Perhaps it is paid off by now but i suspect that some fine print in the papers he signed allowed them to have concern over his property. They need to leave him alone but let's be honest they have no need for someone who is not dependant on there system and they see the timber on his land as money to them if they get him to go under. Now they will start to fine him and allow the amount to get out of hand. Everyone should stand together for him.

Can't get a mortgage from a bank for vacant land. Maybe a private lender and it seems like that's what this guy would choose.

Do tell more. That is a new one on me. Either way at the same time this was happening and when he let all the cameras there is when problems started. It is good to hear that they worked it out for him.

originally posted by: PinealJockey
a reply to: Bilk22



And I don't necessarily disagree with you either except I wonder, are there children there? They can't make that decision and the parents may not know any better. Again the responsibility falls on the landlord. It s interesting to know that you (sort of) see my point considering you are in the biz. My opinion, after all, is not based on ideology, it's informed by experience. When I first started out, I used to get off on getting zoning variances and building code variances, like I was fighting the man. But only rarely was I helping someone who was not for profit. I have my critique of the building code. Mainly its about the overuse of sprinklers to allow the reduction of construction quality. But it is valid and should be enforced

Of course its a moot point, considering Eustice played ball after all and got his variances. I don't know what the trespassing charge was all about. I guess thats for another thread.

Children have parents that are responsible for there well being. It is not some hillbillies job to raise our kids unless we take them to stills nursery. Them parants have to decide for themselves if staying there one night is worth the risk of possible danger.

Judging by your post it sounds pretty clear that you and your job have failed society. I blame jobs like yours for all the excess dumb people out there. You should quit.

a reply to: Annee

The original issue is all that I really wanted to address. But feel free now.

originally posted by: deadeyedick

originally posted by: PinealJockey
a reply to: Bilk22



And I don't necessarily disagree with you either except I wonder, are there children there? They can't make that decision and the parents may not know any better. Again the responsibility falls on the landlord. It s interesting to know that you (sort of) see my point considering you are in the biz. My opinion, after all, is not based on ideology, it's informed by experience. When I first started out, I used to get off on getting zoning variances and building code variances, like I was fighting the man. But only rarely was I helping someone who was not for profit. I have my critique of the building code. Mainly its about the overuse of sprinklers to allow the reduction of construction quality. But it is valid and should be enforced

Of course its a moot point, considering Eustice played ball after all and got his variances. I don't know what the trespassing charge was all about. I guess thats for another thread.

Children have parents that are responsible for there well being. It is not some hillbillies job to raise our kids unless we take them to stills nursery. Them parants have to decide for themselves if staying there one night is worth the risk of possible danger.

Judging by your post it sounds pretty clear that you and your job have failed society. I blame jobs like yours for all the excess dumb people out there. You should quit.

This is all hyped up, the danger. Just pushed way out of wack. My kids would be in far more danger of several types if they were just taken across town to some in-laws rather than down at Conway's mountain paradise. I would take my kids down there anytime.

Eustace has been feuding the these guys for years now.I suspect that the developers of that subdivision at the foot of Turtle Island are behind most of this.

This is old news. In the end they found nothing wrong. All his work is primitive early pioneer design. Therefore it supersedes and predates any codes.

originally posted by: mike dangerously
Eustace has been feuding the these guys for years now.I suspect that the developers of that subdivision at the foot of Turtle Island are behind most of this.

A subdivision! lol. wow.

Think of how this would look, in Boone Co, NC of all places. Shutting a guy down for living like Dan Boone. Probably would hurt state tourism for one.

a reply to: PinealJockey

Basically what this all means is that this man will
be here long after this country has totally gone to HELL.

Also as far as a Smoke Detector.
Get a good DOG.
The batteries last for many many years.
All you have to do is feed him well.

originally posted by: PinealJockey
Zoning and building code is something I know a lot about. In fact you might say knowing the code is a critical requirement to me doing my job. I absolutely empathize with Mr. Conway and if he was a hermit, living alone, I wouldn't care if he lived in a volcano. I would say he has a right to food, clothing, and shelter and that these are fundamental human rights and there is no law, by man, that can trump this. However; it appears that he has roommates. With that in mind, as the land owner, he has a legal responsibility to keep his tenants safe. This is a concept that is attributed to King Hammurabi (eye for an eye tooth for a tooth guy). So its a pretty old concept. Definitely predates settler days.
I watched about 70% of the videos the op posted (thank you for that). I have yet to hear about violations. I suspect that at least half of them have to do with the place being a fire trap and the other half are environmental. For instance the problem is NOT that the foundation is made of stone. It's the fact that in that climate you need a foundation that is at least 4'-5' deep to avoid building thrust when the ground freezes. His outdoor toilets are bad too. That has to do with polluting the ground water. You might say "it's just one guy". It's not. It's a hippie commune so its more than one, and besides if it's OK for them then its OK for everyone. And if it's OK for everyone, then we are back to industry dumping raw sewage in our drinking water.
Mr Conway said " Common sense isn't common anymore." Thats always been a load of B.S. Common sense used to say that the earth is flat and that maggots come from rotting meat. Science and education changed that perception. I heard Mr. Conway speak. He doesn't know ANYTHING about construction. Yes, I said it. But its seems that if you put a wholesome eco-spin on his ignorance then he becomes some kind of crusader.
Now there is legal recourse for him. He can hire an Architect or engineer to survey, document, and present the plans to the Board of Building Standards. All you have do is convince the board that your design addresses the SPIRIT of the code. Now he says he is poor and can't afford to hire a professional. Well there are a number of pro-bono organizations that can champion his crusade. But I suspect he is not going to find a lot of help out there for the same reason I wouldn't help him even if he paid me. I do what I do because I want to change the world for the better and to help people. I would love to hang out with Eustace and smoke some weed with him, but I am not going to help some ignorant fool to legalize his communal deathtrap.

You know building codes and all of that stuff and you are telling us that the buildings we see there are not safe? You mean to say that the buildings that were built like that over a hundred years ago and still stand are not safe, the Amish build things like that and have been for a long time and they are doing fine. His buildings will still be standing long after anything you build with your building codes ....

building codes are used so that when you loose your property, it looks clean and presentable to SELL, SELL,SELL,SELL to another person. There are many reasons or con jobs for this to happen. ONE, Eminent Domain, supposid legal right to get you off property for construction of a road or any other excuse to steal your land and supposidly give fair ROBBERY PRICES so they can build whatever they want on your land. Other reason may be the town board doesn't like you and they give all kinds of sorry exuses to get you to move. Another one might be your land is a clutter and you need to clean it up, but yet U get fined and your land and is cleaner than that of a junk yard, so why does not a junk yard get fined? The town board decided you can NOT have a canopy top structure on your land to use as a shed or garage to store your stuff and if you did not get rid of it you would get fined if you did not tear it down even tho it was brand new structure. Another case of telling you what you can have or not have because you don't look like everyone else and the town cannot sell your property unless they had to clean it up to thier standards to sell and they make a profit. Either way or that way they scam their way into laws and regulations with liciences and fees to make you PAY,PAY,PAY,PAY AND PAY. This world is nothing but a bunch of leaches a scam around every corner.

a reply to: JHumm

My dad moved us out to a rural area just outside the big city back around 1970. You could see the city at night and on a clear day. About 20 miles from city center.

Anyway by 1980 some folks started tearing the wood siding from several of the homes within a mile of our house and low and behold they were old hand hewn log homes made by the first settlers there about 1830ish. One was a two story which stood there a good while after having its siding striped and the logs exposed. It really put things in perspective. That cabin was sold, dismantled and moved somewhere.

Another small cabin about a 1/2 mile from there was striped and restored and remains occupied to this day. This is within a mile of homes that go for 1/2 a mill or better. Others close to our house were sold, dismantled and moved for display here and there.

One cabin about a 1/4 mile from our home was still owned at the time by the gg grandson of the original settlers. He told me that he was born in that house, his dad ect and that it had had siding on it as long as he could remember. He built a modern home in the rear of the property at some point but left the cabin.

The home we lived in had been a log cabin but over the years it had been slowly added to and the old hewn logs removed. We did at one point have to pull the floor out and pull the log floor supports out and put in pine 2x12s. Much of the old rock foundation remained. The home did retain a section of the old roof with hand split wood singles that were as hard as a rock. It was like a section of time capsule up there in the attic.

The home was eventually sold and demolished. Before that happened I went over there and removed the original hand cut sandstone door stoop which is a very nice and attractive 4x2x1 ft well dressed block carved almost 200 years ago. Has some nice trim work on it. I brought it to where I live today and set it up so that I step on it everyday coming and going in and out the house.