I give you rare look into Russian intellectuals talk "How to hit USA"

It is interesting you chose to split Russian intellectuals into 2 groups. After WW2 we split split Germany into east and west divided by the Berlin wall. Not to create a cold war for the purposes of dividing and conquering but to facilitate global recovery from the problems and economic depressions that had plagued the planet for the last 100 years.

There was a group C that I was aware of in the 1960's made up of both eastern and western intellectuals. They had little political ego but understood the need for secrecy due to the split. They had scientific cover projects such as VLBI that required collaboration and used same to communicate.

Recently Russia probably understood that the suicidal drop in oil prices would act as a global economic stimulus. Economies cycle through periods of inflation, deflation and austerity anyways so they chose now. China appears to be helping Russia stabilize the Russian Ruble with currency swaps so we may be at a turning point. There is probably more to be learned from the the 1990's when the Soviet Union broke up into member nations after Japan went into their 20 year recession.

We could read about it in the 70's from dis(info) works, E.G. Isaac Asimov and he Philadelphia experiment.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: Velom

eanwhile, the European Union is getting stronger everyday. The EU is a good example of how a peaceful, global civilization can get started.

DO you have your umbrella ready for the storm that is heading your way for that comment?

Ah yes, as I was reading it I could almost hear the many Alex Jones drones out there screaming about their imaginary NWO!

We have experienced the longest period of peace in Europe thanks to the EU.
Existing Gas deals with Russia has indeed held them back from a full scale war and invasion of its neighbors - as such trade deals were meant to do as a secondary benefit.

As for the whole NWO theory, I'm still waiting for evidence on that. I'm still waiting for someone to prove that there is any negative conspiracy here. All I see is a plan of integration for mutual protection and development. If anyone wants to claim that this isn't true or it's all completely dangerous, then please explain why we have better standards of living in Europe than ever before in Human history

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Son of Will

The2ofusrone is a Putin apologist and if Putin poisoned 95% of Russia he'd spin it as the morally correct option. The truth is Russia itself is saying things are very bad.

Many Russian politicians and business leaders (often the same circle) have been pretty much against Putin since the invasion of Ukraine, and now more so as they see their businesses failing due to sanctions.

As I was saying long ago on here, and pro-Russian posters were absolutely refuting (even though it's economic fact), Russia is heavily reliant on oil and gas export. This makes up a large % of their economy, and the majority of influential people in the country have made their money through gas. Of course any damage to trade in this way would have a significant impact on the Russian economy.

The thing I think is most interesting about the OP and the assertions of the "intellectuals" is that none of them have considered the domestic position at all, not in the slightest. They mention the collapse of the US economically and socially, but they completely ignore the reality of that exact thing happening in their own country. These people are not so intellectual after all.

While "the West" indeed has economic issues to deal with, Russia is in a big hole right now, and it just keeps digging. How long will the people of Russia put up with their Soviet romanticist before they start to get cold feet about his dangerous policies? Lets not forget that we saw massive protests against Putin taking power back, and lets also not forget that they still have Russian troops being buried in secret funerals and their relatives being told absolutely nothing.

Everything these "intellectuals" have said is obviously biased and selective, they are ignoring the damage currently being done to their own country, and completely ignoring their own population while setting their sights on how the West can be dominated. It seems to me that Russians are suffering far more at the hands of Putin's policies right now than any other nation - that's something to watch, because people can only be pushed so far before they react.

a reply to: Velom

One child policy?

Like Communist China?

What about twins?
Triplets?

And so on...

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Where? Only in America and UK do I see this. Most other countries do not want to be like us, period. Germany has actually pulled ahead ad out of economic recession, Where the UK hasn't. The coalition government here isn't done selling off our NHS and making all areas private owned companies which they hold a significant share of. Why the # any country would want to replicate this corrupt version of democracy is beyond me. Sheep, every single last one that cannot see where we are going to end up.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

They don't have that rule anymore. Should probably do your homework. IIRC they aren't a communist country anymore, either.

Edit : Was wrong about the communist part, my mistake.

a reply to: FutureWithoutFuture4

If these are truly the circumstances being discussed at high levels of Russian gvt, why isn't a public truce, a diplomatic reaching across the aisle if you will, an option? These guys have phd's but would rather see their country and it's people go down in flames than open up to the idea of befriending(even just symbolically) someone more powerful than they? I'm by no means in support of the west, but there is a saying..."If you can't beat'em, join'em". We all know the loss of life that happens when all out war breaks out...I would hope that after the horrors of the 20th century one might evolve to the idea of dignified capitulation rather than going down in flames, kicking and screaming in a sea of dead family members and friends. Look what it has done for Japan and Germany and then look what is happening to the others that won't admit defeat. Realistically they cannot and will not ever win in all out war with the west and its allies. To deny this is the same foolish pride that led to the Soviet Union's collapse. Yes we live in a different world now, but no matter how you crunch the numbers it will end in eventual axis' surrender. The wall might have come down, but the iron curtain still exists imo.


Having said that...

This is why I honestly believe that should war break out, it will have been conspired to take place by an elite group of manipulators with no loyalty to any one nation...only loyalty to power and money. After reading a few books, such as All The President's Bankers, The Creature From Jekyll Island, and None Dare Call It Conspiracy, I can say without a doubt that the highest power structure in the world consists of Bankers and Multinational Corps, not any nation. It's a tedious rabbit hole to go down but in the end you will find that Russia, China, DPRK, and all sworn enemies would not exist without funding from these elements I speak of. It's not a conspiracy...well it is...but it's not a conspiracy THEORY. It's just so boring to synthesize that it doesn't draw the attention of most.

Anyway I really hope it doesn't come to that but I have to agree with you that it might indeed be inevitable.

a reply to: Truthbadger

If one parent is a single child, they're excempt.


It does still stand I'm afraid, with exceptions.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: FutureWithoutFuture4

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

The2ofusrone is a Putin apologist and if Putin poisoned 95% of Russia he'd spin it as the morally correct option. The truth is Russia itself is saying things are very bad.

So if you label someone as Putin Apologist, then someone like me should be able to label you as, US Neocon Warmonger Apologist.

Is your last name McCain.

Yes, you could, you would be a fool to do so, but you could. Apparently being unhappy about Russia INVADING and starting a WAR makes someone a warmonger.

Only on ATS.

US propaganda clearly worked on you...

The only "invasion" that occurred in Ukraine was the steady flood of Western money into the pockets of crooked politicians and thugs who ultimately led a violent coup d'etat. The legitimate president (Yanukovych) asked Putin for help, who reluctantly used troops already legally stationed in Ukraine (exact same as if the US used its troops stationed in Germany or Japan) to respond to the ensuing chaos, zoning out the usurping forces, allowing Yanukovych to escape.

You won't hear a peep about how it was a violent coup d'etat, you won't hear that the current leader is not elected, not a president but a dictator, yet these are facts. And that's the context which must be undeerstood.

Since everyone knows this is a proxy war between East and West, Putin had a tough decision. Doing nothing would be bending over to NATO. Waiting for the popular referendum in Crimea was probably the smartest thing he could have done, since any overt action would be wildly exaggerated by Western media.

It really is simple to understand if you unplug from Western propaganda and just look at the facts, keeping the big picture in mind. But reading your comments, I don't think you have the necessary objectivity to acknowledge any of this. I hope I'm wrong on that.

originally posted by: Son of Will


undeerstood

He's a commie! I knew it!!!



I agree but if you have come to the conclusion that Russia is any less corrupt than US you are being a bit naive.

a reply to: FutureWithoutFuture4

Hi, I'm from Russia, so, please, sorry for my bad english, and "let me speak from my heart".

I want to say some words about imminent downfall of the US and all Western Civilization. This will be because of prophecy of the Book of Revelation (17:16-17): "And the ten horns which you saw on the beast, these will hate the harlot, make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire for God has put it into their hearts to fulfill His purpose, to be of one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled."

The Harlot is a "BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH", and this is the whole contemporary West "World Order".

"Horns" is a ten kings, slaves of the last world ruler - antichrist (maschiah of the Jews).

The saint Andrew of of Caesarea, who's commentaries on Apocalypse is classic, wrote:

It is a wonder to me to read how the devil is an enemy and an avenger, because he will operate by directing those ten horns under him, on the one hand to be placed in opposition to the goodness-loving and virtue-loving Christ our God, and on the other hand to devastate the densely populated city which has given itself over to fornication from the divine commandments and has diligently served his pleasures and to fill up with her blood (according to) the nature of the blood thirsty beast. When he will lead the burning of this city and the cutting up of human flesh for his own food it will be (for him) an occasion for rejoicing, and he who always rejoices at discord will grant concord to the rebellious ten horns. The fact that the woman being observed is understood as the greatest city which has unquestionable power over the kings of the earth, makes it unambiguous that (hère) is prophesied the sufferings of those holding ruling power during those times of the trials...

The devil planned this project "to lead astray, if possible, the elect". Antichrist must be looked as a victor over the wicked Babylon (US and a "Gay-rope").

This is Orthodoxy Church teaching.

I like the plan-B group. Cool headed and pragmatic as ever.

Anyhow it's not the people wanting a war, just the few greedy power-hungry bastards that climbed to the top as a fairly apathetic society made it too easy for them. And they'd only want it because Russia's the one place they're still not calling the shots. (The irony is their best opponents in Russia is a mirror image of themselves.) And yes, they'll do anything into getting their mark to strike first so they'll not look like the bad guys if something goes down. Of course they'd rather be in charge of all banks and industries along with weasel-worded legal structure without warfare, but Russia has been pretty good at keeping them from playing that hand. They know the game.

Of course you do have those people who wouldn't mind seeing WWIII, just so the top could quickly be scraped off (along with the rules keeping them there), but that's a minority. (One that happens to have a large camp here at ATS, probably about half of the survival community.) These guys dream about having their opportunity to take over in whatever way they want, but in longer terms it could be possible to end up back in the same place if not with something worse.

Plan-B isn't that bad anyways. Obviously you don't lose much out of using that strategy. The bad shortsighted policy in most western countries regards to economics will eventually lead to class warfare if something isn't done to correct it. So it's just a matter of standing back and giving plenty of room, while having a bowl of popcorn and watching the show. (The Occupy thing, the few places having riots now, the antagonizm in some cities between police and public, and increased theft and robberies is just the tip of the iceberg. It'll get much uglier when public aid starts running too thin to support people working for companies that aren't paying their fair share. The tax structure needed isn't there for it, so it'll implode sooner or later as it is.)

It's funny it's something Russians know that all too well from their own peculiar history. The conditions that inspired all the past communist/socialist systems which failed are rearing their heads again. Not only that, they're not being addressed any better (only being pooh-poohed in the same boorish way), even though we really should know how to fix them this time around. (And we have much better tools now like automation and AI, it's not just plain capital vs. labor in the information age.)

So... I don't see them really doing more than having a plan of hurry-up and waiting. To the Russians, I'd say to be prepared for what's left in the turnover when it happens. But if you get caught poking in our affairs, don't be surprised if our own plan-A group springs to action. In that regard, we're pretty much the same.

originally posted by: Son of Will
US propaganda clearly worked on you...

The only "invasion" that occurred in Ukraine was the steady flood of Western money into the pockets of crooked politicians and thugs who ultimately led a violent coup d'etat. The legitimate president (Yanukovych) asked Putin for help, who reluctantly used troops already legally stationed in Ukraine (exact same as if the US used its troops stationed in Germany or Japan) to respond to the ensuing chaos, zoning out the usurping forces, allowing Yanukovych to escape.

Everything you stated is completely false. He was Constitionally replaced, and Russia not only illegally invaded Crimea (at first denying it then admitting it later), they invaded Ukraine (while still denying it, saying their soldiers are on "vacation" fighting there).

I don't need Western propaganda, using only what Putin and Russia has said they invaded the Ukraine.

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
I am pretty sure Putin is in the patience camp. He has been doing a pretty good job of painting Russia as calm and collect. He speaks frankly, and when Russians are about to do something they usually don't speak much at all. Putin has been vocal which tells me that is his chosen weapon at the moment. When he STOPS talking...

Negative, things are moving to fast already. He already did his waiting. He is going to be leading the Arabs in another attack on Israel, except this time he will send most of what Russia can send to make sure the job gets done as a big Fu to the American government. Putin thinks he can shut down Israel before they launch or that they would never dare to launch on Russia do to the fact that normally Russia would be able to turn every inch of Israel into Glass.

Putin is dumb enough to try it. Just watch, its coming. This will also be the only way he can save his economy and Russian pride so he thinks. Israel has riches beyond our wildest dreams he will tell the Russian Duma.

Russia will make their most fatal mistake ever. Especially since Obama looks like he would never lift a finger to stop Russia when it comes to Israel.

a reply to: Son of Will

US propaganda clearly worked on you... The only "invasion" that occurred in Ukraine was the steady flood of Western money into the pockets of crooked politicians and thugs who ultimately led a violent coup d'etat.

Money is better than the Ricin that Putin has used to keep control of Ukrainian leaders lol.

Oh Ok I thought it was all those Russian special forces who invaded and annexed Crimea and are now causing fighting in Eastern Ukraine that have actually caused a problem.

Lets see what the people would REALLY want. Keep living in soviet era slums in a depressed economy or have the hope of a prosperous life in the European Union as free people not being beat by Russian Mafia thugs.

Yep I guess they like those slums, to your thinking lol.

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
Thanks for sharing . I am going to make a guess and say that Putin is using the "B" plan or at least that is what I am seeing . a reply to: FutureWithoutFuture4

911

Who thinks he's calling the shots? This is the new (or older) war. Initiative brings a whole new light to the issue. If you don't have it, then make it.

Just sayin.

Basara

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
He was Constitionally replaced

He was not. The Constitution of Ukraine has an article about it:

Article 108
The President of Ukraine exercises his or her powers until the assumption of office by the newly-elected President of Ukraine.
The powers of the President of Ukraine terminate prior to the expiration of term in cases of:
1) resignation;
2) inability to exercise his or her powers for reasons of health;
3) removal from office by the procedure of impeachment;
4) death.

originally posted by: Cauliflower
It is interesting you chose to split Russian intellectuals into 2 groups. After WW2 we split split Germany into east and west divided by the Berlin wall. Not to create a cold war for the purposes of dividing and conquering but to facilitate global recovery from the problems and economic depressions that had plagued the planet for the last 100 years.

Completely wrong. Firstly for the "global recovery" reasoning, and especially for the division of Germany nonsense.


Nobody split Germany into east/west. Germany was divided into FOUR quadrants after the war. Russian, French, British and American. Eventually the quadrants were merged and returned to German control except that Russia decided not to return their portion and claimed that East Germans wished to be part of the USSR.


Berlin (the capital) had also been divided into 4 sectors just as the nation was and again, Russia refused to return it's portion of the capital.

Furthermore, the Berlin wall did not divide east and West Germany. Berlin is deep into the Soviet controlled portion of the nation overall, so when the French+British+American portions merged and returned to German control, they became this little island of Western civilization within Soviet-controlled Germany (aka East Germany, or DDR). Eventually in '61 the Soviets surrounded the unified west-Berlin with barbed wire and refused crossing at any of the checkpoints for regular people. Over time the barbed wire fences became concrete walls and a no-go area on the Soviet side known as the 'death zone'.

So the Berlin wall only surrounded WEST Berlin, and East Berlin became the capital of East Germany.

West Germany was linked to West Berlin by only a few guarded highways traversing the East German territory separating the two. You were not permitted to stray off the highways, and at one time, DDR/Soviet forces closed off the link from W. Berlin to W. Germany. The only way to supply the city was by air. That time is known as the "Berlin Airlift"

My gosh, as usual on ats... crap from the book of revelations, a thread based on "knowing" the thoughts of "Intellectuals" as if you know the majority of anyone your chatting with on the net is an intellectual lol... because bsing on the internet bunches is what intelligent people do rather than have lives, lol one in Ten at best out of work temporarily or some other reason to not be living life, like having a huge head and not wishing to go outside lol... of course super weapons come into play in conversation and all the rest

Truth... most people in Russia don't care anymore than most Americans do

The Reality... Putin and other people in Russia just like in the USA are in there last days of power and holding on to ideas that don't even matter to most people...

Putin = post cold war we will always defy/not be a part of the west America = Hippies in power still fighting the moral issues of the 60's

Both = OUT OF TOUCH

This will end, it will likely go away or fizzle like this maybe be known as "The short cold war" or something like that, America wont collapse, Russia wont be destroyed by the US... In fact the people being quoted on the Russian end in this thread sound like stereo typical American conspiracy types, lightly paranoid, too much time on their hands. The West isn't out to destroy Russia, Russia isn't out to destroy America there are just stubborn jerks in office in both places.

Russia will lean to Asia to survive economically and when that doesn't help much and Putin is out of office sooner or later, who ever gets in will thaw with the West and globalism will continue on...