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Astrophysicist angers Christians with Christmas tweet

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posted on Dec, 28 2014 @ 08:38 AM
a reply to: hounddoghowlie I don't have to prove he didnt exist, that's the default, id like to see this evidence you speak of. Any links?

posted on Dec, 28 2014 @ 08:40 AM

originally posted by: Aleister
Newton is a fine person to celebrate, as is Jesus. Not a bad pair to share a birthday (or a beer) with.

Except that Newton was a real person and Jesus is a non-confirmed character potetially created by religious nutcases to control people.

posted on Dec, 28 2014 @ 09:25 AM
a reply to: Anubis259

did you see where i corrected my post, i clicked the wrong member's reply button.
and i was talking about Newton.

now to your point, i'm not gonna go into it here with you. it is clear you have your mind made up, and no amount of of scholarly quotes from a consensus that are both religious and secular that there was indeed a historical Jesus , will change your mind. no need to go any further.

you can and probably will say that is a lie about the consensus, just do a search and you will find pages and pages that argues both. you have your beliefs and i have mine. i can't help it if yours are wrong.

edit on 28-12-2014 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 28 2014 @ 09:43 AM
Okay - gonna really complain now -

I saw something about this first on popular websites, and was so surprised anyone cared. So let's talk about Christianity, particularly Fundamentalist Christians. What strikes me as worrying about those that are bothered by these sorts of comments is how weak their faith must be. Christians of this sort are offended by anyone who doesn't believe what they believe and has the willingness to publicly say as much. If your truth is so secure, God so real, and religion so obvious, then why would it matter if others had secular opinions and wanted to keep them? How does the opinions of this man restrain your ability to worship?

- They believe he is a tool of the devil, leading others astray.
- They believe that everyone should believe as they believe (which in protestant worship, varies incredibly in and of itself).
- They believe that by the influence of men like Tyson, many will go to hell.

None of this makes any sense to me. The opinion of Christians of this sort is incredibly aggressive, and to me is not different than the Taliban, or any other extreme fundamentalist religion. Science is simply a method of testing ideas in order to produce repeatable results so that we may understand the nature of the world we live in and occassionally find ways to better live in that world. Also sometimes capitalism. It has nothing to do with faith, or God, or your capicity for believing in magic. My favorite axiom has alwasy been the following:

If God is all powerful in the literal sense of the word, then
All things are possible for God
Including impossible (or contradictory) things.

The concept of God should be so powerfully wide and complete that it should be universally inclusive. Instead, Christians of this sort limit the concept of God, attempt to define God, and in my opinion commit the greatest possible blasphemy by claiming to know the mind of God. In even more frustrating news, those like Kirk Cameron attempt to use scientific methods to prove the existance of God, either through finding Noah's Ark (Serisouly? Mt. Ararat isn't even that tall, and how would ALL the animals of the world fit on one boat, and also the myth of Noah predates the Bible by thousands of years), proving that Christ was born on December 25th (Historians, of which I am one, cannot even prove beyond a shadow of doubt that Christ lived at all, much less when he was born. For such an important man, you would think more contemporaries would have cared to mention him), and that biology is too complex for it to be explained by evolution (firstly evolution is simply a natural system, one that we see working all the time, and secondly - how can you be perfectly fine with the sciences that allow us to understand biology, such as x-ray radiation and lense magnification, but not the conclusions scientists draw from observations?).

I conclude that there is simply a widely applied mass hysteria at work - Christians of this sort are caught in a mental illness that is simply too widespread to treat, and instead we call it normal and acceptable.

Yet also - Tyson's comments reveal how much the scientific establishment has in common with religion, having their own individuals worthy of worship, their own dogma, and their own desire to crush the heretic and infidel.

You know what you know, you don't know what you don't know - opinions beyond this should simply remain private.

posted on Dec, 28 2014 @ 09:56 AM
a reply to: Herolotus

Christianity is "Too Big To Fail", and must be bailed out by low IQ politicians and pseudo science!

posted on Dec, 28 2014 @ 10:14 AM
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

What was the 25th hijacked from?
Sigh. Seriously? You don't know that Winter Solstice festivals have been around the world, in nearly EVERY culture, since cave-men? Early on, people worried that the sun would disappear entirely and they would be swallowed in cold darkness for eternity (or die - which of course, would be TRUE)....then the sun rests on the southern quadrant of the the skyline for 3 days - then it starts moving back up toward 'overhead'. Early societies figured this out, but the parties stayed put.

Winter solstice is the depth of the year - people had SEASONAL festivals because it helped pass the cold months; or helped endure the sweltering heat; or because they were happy to see buds and crocus flowers and 'life' springing back into action; or because they had a fruitful harvest and all the work was done until after winter; from our point of view.

His tweet was factual,
Yes - it was.

it was intended to offend.
HOW was it 'intended to offend, again'? The man is a scientist, and a 'teacher' - he's using his notoriety and present prominence to speak THE TRUTH to people.

If you got offended, you were looking REALLY hard for it. Suppose the Pope had said the same thing? You'd still be offended?
For someone who holds Occams Razor as a pseudonym - you missed the mark entirely, friend.


edit on 12/28/2014 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 28 2014 @ 10:20 AM
a reply to: windword

Right? I mean, believe what you like, but why is it so important that others believe as you do? Why care? Certainly an answer as goodas any and better than most is that they hold cash, cash that can be used to support corrupt politicians and rampant consumerism.

posted on Dec, 28 2014 @ 10:22 AM
a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

Scientists live in Kansas, the "Show Me" state, yet they have an unbroken "faith" in the scientific process.

Woops - minor correction: Missouri is the "Show Me" state - right next door. Kansas is the "Sunflower" state.

Just saying. Kansas is, however, currently under a regime of fundamentalist evangelicals - a 'grand experiment' devised by Governor Sam Brownback. A COLOSSAL FAILURE. And the fundie Kansas populace (mostly rural, uneducated, and unsophisticated) kept him in there - sigh.

We gave it a good fight, though.

posted on Dec, 28 2014 @ 10:33 AM
a reply to: hounddoghowlie

Seriously there is no reason to think there was a historical Jesus - but also you would be blown away by how that is true for many figures we cast no doubt on, the best example being Alexander the Great, who would have vanished into obscurity and legend if not for that he named all those cities after himself. There are very few documents that actually record the events of his life, and fewer that are considered reliable and accurate. The number could be as small as one, and when I was studying to BE a historian, this was considered common knowledge. when I asked about it, academics would simply shrug it off.

To be very clear - I have an education in the science and art of history, specializing in the ancient near-east, and another degree in religious studies, and I studied under a man who discovered one of the earliest buildings dedicateed solely to the worship of Christ - There is zero historical evidence that can confirm that Christ was a ral man who lived, there is as much data to suggest he was a total fabrication by Constantine. Yes it's strange, yes it's difficult to agree with, and yes you will doubt it and wailand wonder.

But I ask you simply this - Why does it matter to your faith what people in the late ancient world said and wrote? Especially knowing how much suppression and book-burning and censorship was at work? Who cares if we can't prove it? We can't prove LOTS of things, and say we do all the time.

What's Gravity? No idea - Gravitons? Dark Matter? It's only the most practically observed phenomena in human existence...
Great Pyramid? Can't carbon date it, no organics, no (reliable) writing even though it was supposedly built by the most prolific writers of the ancient world... No mummy or even evidence there ever was one, or funeral items (even mundane ons that would have been pointless to steal)... So what, tomb then? Alien OCD rock-stacking?

Historians can't prove it, and likely never will - doesn't matter.

posted on Dec, 28 2014 @ 10:35 AM
To BuzzyWigs

And the fundie Kansas populace (mostly rural, uneducated, and unsophisticated)

Some of the most intelligent people I have met did not have a higher education, and I bet by your opinion were 'unsophisticated'.
I have met MANY highly educated, sophisticated idiots.

I don't think this will reach you on your educated, sophisticated pedestal.

Do you enjoy looking down at us useless eaters?

edit on 12 28 2014 by stosh64 because: because quote function didnt work

posted on Dec, 28 2014 @ 10:39 AM

originally posted by: Chadwickus
a reply to: buster2010

Well considering that it's almost a certainty that Jesus wasn't born on the 25th December, I don't see why anyone would be peeved...except those that actually think he was I guess..

It never mattered what day his actual birthday was, it's the thought that counts.

posted on Dec, 28 2014 @ 10:46 AM
a reply to: Rocker2013

I'm surprised this place isn't infested with religious people ultimately blaming everything on the Devil.

Well, there's been a plague or two of those on ATS, but - the really worrisome infestation is what we see working its insidious way into our GOVERNMENT.

posted on Dec, 28 2014 @ 10:50 AM
a reply to: OccamsRazor04


Only those with weak beliefs would be offended by this.

Most Christians get it and are not offended over things like this. However there are plenty of phoney Christians who will make a big fuss over non-issues like this. The same ones who claim science is a religion that react so foolishly, Degrasse Tyson gets a lot of grief from them, especially here on ATS.

posted on Dec, 28 2014 @ 10:55 AM
a reply to: stosh64

Some of the most intelligent people I have met did not have a higher education, and I bet by your opinion were 'unsophisticated'.
I have met MANY highly educated, sophisticated idiots.

Do you know the meaning of 'unsophisticated'?

Higher education is not the norm in the vast prairie expanses of central and western Kansas. It's simple demographics. And those areas don't attract and keep quality teachers, either. When I see egregious grammar and spelling and writing errors, I blame the TEACHERS, not the students.

I didn't say anyone was an "idiot". YOU said that.

I know people also who are highly educated, sophisticated MONSTERS.

It is true that the more education people have, the more they turn away from religious dogma.

It's a fact. Look it up, and also look up 'unsophisticated.' It means someone who has not been exposed to other cultures or ways of life, and is ill-equipped to deal with them.

posted on Dec, 28 2014 @ 11:06 AM
a reply to: stosh64

Some of the most intelligent people I have met did not have a higher education, and I bet by your opinion were 'unsophisticated'

Nope! In fact, my son has no FORMAL 'higher education', but he is brilliant, and successful and VERY sophisticated. (Because he was not 'indoctrinated' into religion, he is also uninterested in religion except as a bizarre phenomenon of the human condition. His favorite tv show when he was in preschool was "Adult Math" on PBS. What he's learned about the world and other cultures came from being open to other people's ideas, and educating HIMSELF - which is entirely possible with the internet.)

My daughter has a master's degree - and is a scientist. She's been to many foreign countries and immersed in cultures' foreign to her'. She also has no interest in religion.

You lose the bet.

edit on 12/28/2014 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 28 2014 @ 11:28 AM

originally posted by: Anubis259
a reply to: hounddoghowlie I don't have to prove he didnt exist, that's the default, id like to see this evidence you speak of. Any links?

That works out good for you because you wouldn't be able to prove he didn't exist. You wouldn't even be able to prove he doesn't exist right now.

No one can. There is more evidence in existence that Jesus did live exactly as described in the bible, than any evidence saying he didn't. People who who don't want him to have existed think it can be wished away with a casual and worthless statement like what we see in this thread. What is their best material? Just ridicule, and a pompous attitude.

posted on Dec, 28 2014 @ 11:34 AM
a reply to: hounddoghowlie Well I wont bother making any assumptions. Not sure how you can say I'm wrong, when you have failed like any other theist to prove your point through evidence. I am by default correct, you are obligated to prove what you claim, when discussing the mater. I have looked for evidence and found nothing concrete, hence why no history book includes the demigod jesus, or any other for that matter. Its simple desire to accept the tales of the bible, as evidence on the subject is poor or worse.

posted on Dec, 28 2014 @ 11:39 AM
a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed That kind of logic gets us nowhere. Using that method of thinking, you cant prove an elf doesn't live in your ass. I'm sure you've heard this before, but chose to ignore it; you cant prove a negative, the burdens on the person making the claim. If no evidence is provided, then based on logical reasoning I have no choice but to believe your claim I false.

posted on Dec, 28 2014 @ 11:44 AM
I think it was a very clever statement.

And using Newton as a case for Christianity is kind of not.

Newton’s historical learning, including a knowledge of Jewish customs, was extensive. He also mastered the writings of the church Fathers. (Newton’s interest in the doctrine of the Trinity led him to study the fourth-century conflict between Athanasius and Arius, who denied the status of Christ in the Godhead. Convinced that a massive fraud had perverted certain Scriptures, Newton adopted the Arian position.) Despite his intense biblical study and belief in a creating God, Newton observed the distinction between religion and science made by Galileo: “The Bible tells us how to go to Heaven, not how the heavens go.” During his presidency of the Royal Society, Newton banned any subject touching religion, even apologetics. He wrote, “We are not to introduce divine revelations into philosophy [science], nor philosophical [scientific] opinions into religion.”

posted on Dec, 28 2014 @ 11:46 AM
a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Modern education is as much indoctrination as religion is.

I don't get into these pointless arguments that neither side ever 'wins'

Fine, I lose, I can live with that.

I hope you have a good day.

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