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America's attitudes towards marriage and women

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posted on Dec, 27 2014 @ 01:39 AM
a reply to: randomtangentsrme

Ah, well then sorry if I came off harsh, misread the post

posted on Dec, 27 2014 @ 04:41 AM

originally posted by: Metallicus
You are definitely generalizing too much. America has every race and culture from around the world and I doubt you could get 50% of Americans to agree the sky is blue. There is no need to translate because that is an individual thing not cultural.

I respect that opinion, and although I think it is correct to an extent, I think it is not acknowledging that there IS a cultural bedrock of values ideas and morals in America.

One day my sister proclaimed, "But we don't have any specific culture! We're a melting pot of differences!"

I used to think that too, until I left it and was faced with the outside world.

The earlier mentioned tradition of "dating" for example. Did you know that is a specifically american ritual, and that in some other countries, they learn about it with fascination and confusion?

I watched french people reading a french blogger living in the US explaining traditions like engagement rings, official demands for marriage, big ceremonies in which there are sometimes numerous other people involved (bridesmaids, groomsmen...) , a rehearsal dinner. Every american reading this knows exactly what I am talking about, whether they did this themselves or not. The french people had never heard of any of it.

That confirms that there are rituals and beliefs that are specific to our country, despite the varied origins of the people.

posted on Dec, 27 2014 @ 08:01 AM
I have no clue where your family is getting this attitude. I can't count how many kids have been born in my family with single parents and those kids are treated as family. Maybe this comes from the older folks, but the younger generations dont appear to have this hang up.

posted on Dec, 27 2014 @ 08:03 AM

originally posted by: Expat888

Still attempting to figure out why theres even a need for marriage ..


Marriage only seems to benefit religion.. the state and divorce lawyers who all profit from it.

Actually, it has evolved here in the United States into more of a contract that has tax and legal implications that can be used for the couples benefit. Hence the reason that gay couples look to receive these same benefits.

edit on 27-12-2014 by AugustusMasonicus because: networkdude has no beer

posted on Dec, 27 2014 @ 08:15 AM
It really sounds like a religion problem.

Depending on the families religion,
having children out of wedlock is a no no.

They will get over it.

My own view on marriage is that it really does seem to be a binding legal contract these days, and is a lot less about love and commitment and more about I'll screw you over if something goes wrong. (could go that way with either partner)

Personally, I think it is best to make a commitment, and leave the legality out of it, because you just never know what your partner might do later on. It is better to have the "we just walk away" commitment. IMO

But then, I have been burned before.

edit on 27-12-2014 by Darkblade71 because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 27 2014 @ 08:17 AM
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Nice to know my parents 50 years of marriage and my 20 years and counting marriage, are about tax deductions.
Some people might feel that there is a bit more to marriage,,,,

posted on Dec, 27 2014 @ 08:20 AM
a reply to: Hoosierdaddy71

I am sure for them that there is but marriage is indeed a contract with a huge amount of legal precedent attached to the relationship.

posted on Dec, 27 2014 @ 08:23 AM
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I know.. I'm pulling your chain..

A preacher can marry you but it takes a judge to divorce you, thats a legal contract.

posted on Dec, 27 2014 @ 08:53 AM
Marriage is about commitment, responsibility, and hard work with lasting love. Responsibility to each other, family, children, and friends and community. This creates a stable nurturing society for the children and older family members as well as for the couple. Marriage keeps sexual diseases from happening and spreading. It is the ultimate spiritual and emotional commitment in Society. It is about showing commitment with honor and respect with dignity. What do the French value?

posted on Dec, 27 2014 @ 08:57 AM
a reply to: frugal

I think the problem with that is that lots of Americans don't hold up to the commitments that they made in marriage.
Divorce is way to easy to do now, and to many people are opting for divorce instead of working things out.

More and more people are figuring this out as our culture changes and are opting out of marriage, but do the spiritual ties instead.

My wife and I are married in every single way other than turning in the paper work after the ceremony .

posted on Dec, 27 2014 @ 09:19 AM
Marriage is not always a day at a picnic. I have been married for twenty three plus years. My kids know who their parents are have learned about love, commitments, hard work, and will inherit their parent's land and property. The holidays for us are stable and enjoyable. Our feelings don't get hurt from any crazy dramas. I know three couples who have gotten divorced this past year. Their character skills are lacking in moral qualities. Their children have suffered misery and embarrassment. People who are not related to them suffered from the drama. Such as hearing about their bad behaviors, immaturity, poor or stupid financial decision making, and the way the treated each other. My husband covered his bosses job while the guy flipped out, cried, and got drunk constantly. That guy suffered some extreme illnesses as a result, he was devastated. Divorce creates alot of evil drama. Marriage and raising a family is not for the weak and selfish. Fortunately the married happy people do hold society together in a stable rational way. A friend I knew told a room full of women not to get divorces because you will just end up with the same type of person again.... so you might as well just work on putting fertilizer on your own back yard.
edit on 27-12-2014 by frugal because: sp

posted on Dec, 27 2014 @ 09:36 AM
a reply to: Bluesma
Americans are still stuck in the middle ages in many ways. We still cling to taboos and "social norms" that are antiquated and oppressive. We often think we know what's good for the rest of the world, if only they would be reasonable, and see things our way.

edit on 12/27/2014 by Klassified because: edit

posted on Dec, 27 2014 @ 09:54 AM
a reply to: Klassified

There are things to be said for tradition. Not everything old is bad and not every change is for the better.

posted on Dec, 27 2014 @ 10:00 AM

originally posted by: Hoosierdaddy71
a reply to: Klassified

There are things to be said for tradition. Not everything old is bad and not every change is for the better.

We can agree on that statement. It's always the debate that ensues after that statement that becomes heated. Lol. What needs to stay, and what needs to go, but that's a topic for another thread.

posted on Dec, 27 2014 @ 02:23 PM
While what you are experiencing with your American-side of the family is certainly not a rarity, it is also not the status quo. Attitudes about marriage and starting families are changing in America. Some, naturally, adhere to old-school viewpoints.

We don't have children, but my husband and I just got married this past October after being together for seven years and living together for six and a half.

His best friend has been with his girlfriend for the same amount of time and they also have a child together. They are not married and their families do not give them any guff.

Similarly, my roommate's best friend since highschool has been with her boyfriend for about five years. They just had their second child, although the first tragically died just a few days after birth about three years ago. They were actually trying to have another child despite having no desire to marry. As with our other friends, their families do not look down on them for this.

In fact, my husband and I are the ONLY ones to have gotten married despite the fact that all our friends have been in relationships for several years, all of which have lasted for just a year or two less than ours. We are also only one of two of our friends who don't have children. We are all in our 30s.

However, I feel it is prudent to say that the person in these relationships who DOES want to marry is always the woman, not the man. In three of these relationships, the girlfriends have been openly expressed their desire to get married to their boyfriends and the boyfriends refuse, but they stay together, regardless.

posted on Dec, 27 2014 @ 09:45 PM
a reply to: randomtangentsrme

Speak in generalities if you want, but it only makes you look ignorant to me... Not all men abandon relationships once kids come into the situation. This is coming from a man who is rasing his kids from 2 different relationships both of more than a decade, and one of the boys isn't my DNA, but he is my son none the less. The problem is PEOPLE not being honest with themselves and not holding themselves accountable for their own actions.

I could say, that it comes down to Men getting wise to women's games and making the choice to not be taken advantage of anymore. But I would be wrong.

Times are changing and values are changing, and many people aren't ready to let go of old ways. We each need to only be honest about EVERYTHING, and accept what that brings. We can't seek to blame others, pointing fingers and stewing in all that negative, nothing good comes from it. The kids are watching and they learn from that. Or, we can deal with it and move forward in a positive way, with no pre-conciveed ill will toward anyone. Let our kids all get a new start beginning with our new way of thinking.

I'm sure ill quickly get slapped back to the real world... but a man can dream, right?

posted on Dec, 28 2014 @ 02:10 AM
a reply to: wastedown

Is taking a general look at the America we both belong to ignorant? Or is it observing the situation, with hopes of providing a better future?
You are pointing the finger, far more than anyone else.

What you call "our new way of thinking" is how I was raised. Not really sure what your argument is.

posted on Dec, 28 2014 @ 04:48 AM
a reply to: Bluesma

All this American has to say is...Congratulations on the upcoming birth, may her, her boyfriend, and their child have a wonderful life.

This strange focus on what constitutes a lasting relationship in America is one I, who was raised here, have never understood.

Two more things:
1. In many ways the "bedrock" of our moral attitudes come down to us from our mostly Puritan origins, what can I say, our early culture was based on a group of religious fundamentalists who were so uptight the British kicked them out.
2. I have come to embrace a sentiment a very wise friend of mine once told me, "Blood makes you related, love makes you family."
edit on 28-12-2014 by gamesmaster63 because: to add more

posted on Dec, 28 2014 @ 08:02 AM

originally posted by: frugal
Marriage is about commitment, responsibility, and hard work with lasting love. Responsibility to each other, family, children, and friends and community. This creates a stable nurturing society for the children and older family members as well as for the couple. Marriage keeps sexual diseases from happening and spreading. It is the ultimate spiritual and emotional commitment in Society. It is about showing commitment with honor and respect with dignity. What do the French value?

Well, these are important to the french too (in some ways, some are even more important to them, being socially focused values instead of individualist).

The difference seems to be that there is no "dating" . Someone else mentioned being "single", and I almost responded to say there was a misunderstanding- my daughter is not single. Then I stopped myself, remembering that in American terms she is. But here, the term refers to someone who is not part of a couple.

The french do not have the custom of dating. If you decide to go out with someone, it is a choice to be involved and committed.

When I was reading that discussion of a french blogger describing his experiences in the US, he described the tradition of the "big talk", in which one (usually the man) expresses readiness to commit to a future for the couple, and to be exclusive. The french readers all asked- But, up to that "talk", what are they then?????

Hard to answer that. Even sort of troubling. They are, well, friends who kiss? Friends who have sex? People who are attracted to each other, but afraid of being in a relationship?

My husband and I had a bit of misunderstanding there, for him, the moment he decided to go out with me and express his attraction, he thought it was understood that he had spent weeks watching me, listening to me, thinking about whether he was ready to engage in what he saw as a future family with me.

I was waiting for the talk, I guess. I thought he was just having fun, and hoping he would feel more at some point.
He had already written in his journal that I would be his wife, before our first date! (note- the word for wife is "femme" which simply means woman, and is used to indicate ones female life partner, regardless of legal marriage).
My point being, they don't start off fooling around. The commitment is implicit in the agreement to go out together alone, or be physical. (important to know if you meet a french person! Don't agree to go out with them unless you serious!)

What that leaves us with is- there is no big "change" in the terms or base of the relationship as result of marriage.
Except for people who are very religious.
But even then , that question still echoes in my head- until the marriage, what are they doing then??

posted on Dec, 28 2014 @ 11:24 AM
Honestly it is really up to the women how they want to be treated and what they will put up with. I would say to a daughter get yourself the most and best education you can. Get the best job to pay your bills that you can. Save your money up. Learn to fix things, take shop class. Be self reliant and intellectual. Learn to change your own oil and learn about cars. Do not rely on a man for happiness and to survive, rely on your self. What ever comes along be very picky and careful. Do not settle. Think about your happiness as a woman. Act like a man. Don't ever wear a burka. Own your own land and property. Be financially independent and stable. Make smart choices.

We have a phrase in America "If you are getting free milk.... Why would you buy a cow?" Don't be the cow that gives out the milk for free.
Women set the rules and need to think more of themselves.
edit on 28-12-2014 by frugal because: addition

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