Ohio shopper shoots teen dead outside mall for trying to steal newly bought Nike Air Jordans

originally posted by: NavyDoc
You didn't fail because you dislike killing, you failed because you'd rather a woman be raped than the rapist be killed. Therein lies the difference.

What's that with your obsession to make people fail? You are hardly the judge of that, methinks.

Again, don't put words in my mouth. I detest killing. I detest rape. So all actions that I find plausible try to avoid BOTH.

originally posted by: ForteanOrg

originally posted by: NavyDoc
You didn't fail because you dislike killing, you failed because you'd rather a woman be raped than the rapist be killed. Therein lies the difference.

What's that with your obsession to make people fail? You are hardly the judge of that, methinks.

Again, don't put words in my mouth. I detest killing. I detest rape. So all actions that I find plausible try to avoid BOTH.

When you willingly and knowingly wish to prevent a woman form making the choice of methods to defend herself, then you support rape.

You said it, not me, you said you agreed that it was more moral for a woman to submit to rape than own a handgun to defend herself from rape. Pretty disgusting if you ask me. You value pacifism over the sanctity of a woman's body and would call her a murderer if she killed a rapist-- and that's what you called it--murder. Disgusting.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: ForteanOrg

Well I couldn't speak for what you meant by what you said when you stated the VP was 'as right as rain'.
Cause I would disagree with what that guy said.

I didn't meant to paint you as a rape lover, but I could never agree that a man or women should not do what ever it takes to not get raped.
I champion most life, but rape is a big bugaboo of mine.

I can see that. If you think it's allright to kill for it, that's something. I don't think it is.

I do detest rape though. But given the impossible choice, I detest killing more than rape. But again: if a woman is raped and accidentally, in despair, kills her offender, I think any judge would let her go.

originally posted by: ForteanOrg

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: ForteanOrg

Well I couldn't speak for what you meant by what you said when you stated the VP was 'as right as rain'.
Cause I would disagree with what that guy said.

I didn't meant to paint you as a rape lover, but I could never agree that a man or women should not do what ever it takes to not get raped.
I champion most life, but rape is a big bugaboo of mine.

I can see that. If you think it's allright to kill for it, that's something. I don't think it is.

I do detest rape though. But given the impossible choice, I detest killing more than rape. But again: if a woman is raped and accidentally, in despair, kills her offender, I think any judge would let her go.

But that's the problem that everyone is repulsed by--you detest the killing of a rapist by the woman MORE than you detest the rape of the woman. The problem is not the woman, the problem is the rapist, and it's a position that is rather disturbing--worrying about the life of a rapist. It's easy not to be killed as a rapist--don't #ing rape people!!!

originally posted by: ForteanOrg

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
I want to live in the world where I can walk around wherever I please without having to worry that some deranged idiot won't leap from the shadows for a piece of my sweet, sweet Railgunny booty.

You may consider moving to my part of the world then. I have never known a woman here that felt the need to carry knives, guns or bats (the unwinged ones) around with them because they were afraid of being raped. We have rape too in my country, but somehow it has not resulted in women wanting to carry guns, knives etc. all the time.

Sorry, I don't speak the language in The Netherlands (Dutch, I believe?) and I enjoy close access to dozens of awesome anime stores and the great food here. I'm quite happy where I am. Maybe it's a vestigial remnant of my old U.S. upbringing, but even though I may not ever NEED my weapon, I will continue to carry it with me. There is no 100% chance I'll always be safe, so one must reasonably take measures to close that gap where society cannot provide the assurance I need.

a reply to: Krakatoa

That attitude is why America gets mass shooting.

Its not guns that are the problem but your attitude.

Yes the teen brought it on himself and as he was armed it was a justified shooting.

But killing someone should NEVER be celebrated and should be a sombre event.

It should never be taken lightly.

Useing a gun should be a LAST resort only taken if thats the only option.


Cheering and treating guns as a go to solution for any problem is whats wrong and why the USA has such high gun violence compared to other nations like switzerland which have armed population.


If I had been the man with the gun permit confronted with those teen I would have taken that shot too, it was right, but I damed well would not be happy with it.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: ForteanOrg

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
I want to live in the world where I can walk around wherever I please without having to worry that some deranged idiot won't leap from the shadows for a piece of my sweet, sweet Railgunny booty.

You may consider moving to my part of the world then. I have never known a woman here that felt the need to carry knives, guns or bats (the unwinged ones) around with them because they were afraid of being raped. We have rape too in my country, but somehow it has not resulted in women wanting to carry guns, knives etc. all the time.

Sorry, I don't speak the language in The Netherlands (Dutch, I believe?) and I enjoy close access to dozens of awesome anime stores and the great food here. I'm quite happy where I am. Maybe it's a vestigial remnant of my old U.S. upbringing, but even though I may not ever NEED my weapon, I will continue to carry it with me. There is no 100% chance I'll always be safe, so one must reasonably take measures to close that gap where society cannot provide the assurance I need.

Actually rape is rather high in the Netherlands, perhaps attributed to a light touch on crime and a culture of "she deserved it" than Japan with a per capita rate of 9.2/100k compared to 1/100k.

4th highest rape in Europe, actually:

According to a 2014 study published by the European Union Agency for Fundamental Rights, the Netherlands had the fourth highest prevalence rate of physical and sexual violence against women in Europe, with 45% of women having experienced such violence, which is well above the European average of 33%

And the "she deserved it" culture: The Dutch Review

Methinks the poster lives in an idealized dream world.

originally posted by: ForteanOrg
Well, that's a stretch too far. It's the Netherlands. We're sophisticated, mostly civilised, but we have stupid rednecks too, who think they can sit on the chair of judge and jury by themselves. Thank Goodness it's not really normal to carry a gun here, otherwise they would probably defend themselves 20 times each week

Well excuse me for living in the United states. Your comment deserves to
be deleted and or redacted for your prejudicial views i think,but i wont report it but i will point it out. I have usually found out that the ones who claim they are sophisticated are usually the last people you want making decisions because they always claim its for your own good. we know best. surrender your lives to big daddy government and they will make it all go away.

Your comment screams classism from the way it sounds. Are you a classist?

Anyway the kid made a bad call and got laid on his back on dirtnap hill. If he was in some other countries he would get much the same but i bet the people who disagree would not be so vocal then.

originally posted by: NavyDoc
Pretty disgusting if you ask me. You value pacifism over the sanctity of a woman's body and would call her a murderer if she killed a rapist-- and that's what you called it--murder. Disgusting.

Ah, yes. You keep playing that card, don't you? But again: I don't buy it. Once more: I'm against killing anybody. I'm against raping anybody. So, I am against anything that makes it easier to do either. Therefore I am against civilians (and actually most cops) to wear arms. And I'm against those who rape. They should be arrested by the Police and brought to justice. That's a bit boring, I agree. And it is much better for the reptile brain to imagine that dirtbag to be splatted into little pieces by some giant insect splatter. But that would not be just.

Justice is boring and slightly disgusting. Correct.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

No thats what the courts are for.


It not a invidual job to dish out justice as judge jury and executioner.


Killing should be in self defence or defence of others.

As a so called "christian" you should understand that.

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: Krakatoa

That attitude is why America gets mass shooting.

Its not guns that are the problem but your attitude.

Yes the teen brought it on himself and as he was armed it was a justified shooting.

But killing someone should NEVER be celebrated and should be a sombre event.

It should never be taken lightly.

Useing a gun should be a LAST resort only taken if thats the only option.


Cheering and treating guns as a go to solution for any problem is whats wrong and why the USA has such high gun violence compared to other nations like switzerland which have armed population.


If I had been the man with the gun permit confronted with those teen I would have taken that shot too, it was right, but I damed well would not be happy with it.

Mass shootings are not due to that--they are due to lack of mental health and nihilism.

We don't celebrate the death of a criminal--not really--a lot of that is in response to support for the criminal. We just don't have any sympathy for a criminal who gets killed being a criminal. I am prepared to kill a criminal if I must, but I don't long for it and don't want to--even if exonerated by the criminal courts after being bankrupt defending yourself, you have to face civil suits and revenge from the thug's friends. It is not to be taken lightly, to be sure, but it is the right thing to do if one must and all blame on the situation lies with the one who caused it--the criminal. There would be no self defense shooting at all if the criminal did not make the decision to do what he did.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: ForteanOrg

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
I want to live in the world where I can walk around wherever I please without having to worry that some deranged idiot won't leap from the shadows for a piece of my sweet, sweet Railgunny booty.

You may consider moving to my part of the world then. I have never known a woman here that felt the need to carry knives, guns or bats (the unwinged ones) around with them because they were afraid of being raped. We have rape too in my country, but somehow it has not resulted in women wanting to carry guns, knives etc. all the time.

Sorry, I don't speak the language in The Netherlands (Dutch, I believe?) and I enjoy close access to dozens of awesome anime stores and the great food here. I'm quite happy where I am. Maybe it's a vestigial remnant of my old U.S. upbringing, but even though I may not ever NEED my weapon, I will continue to carry it with me. There is no 100% chance I'll always be safe, so one must reasonably take measures to close that gap where society cannot provide the assurance I need.

Actually rape is rather high in the Netherlands, perhaps attributed to a light touch on crime and a culture of "she deserved it" than Japan with a per capita rate of 9.2/100k compared to 1/100k.

4th highest rape in Europe, actually:

According to a 2014 study published by the European Union Agency for Fundamental Rights, the Netherlands had the fourth highest prevalence rate of physical and sexual violence against women in Europe, with 45% of women having experienced such violence, which is well above the European average of 33%

And the "she deserved it" culture: The Dutch Review

Methinks the poster lives in an idealized dream world.

Neat! Even more reason to stay in the good ol' JP.

And on that note, it's WAY too early in the morning for this Railgun to still be vertical.

Time to hit the sack. I'll read through later tonight when I get to work and formulate cogent responses once I've had my coffee.

Oyasumi Nasai

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
Sorry, I don't speak the language in The Netherlands (Dutch, I believe?)

Most of us speak decent English. Don't be fooled by my posts.

and I enjoy close access to dozens of awesome anime stores and the great food here. I'm quite happy where I am. Maybe it's a vestigial remnant of my old U.S. upbringing, but even though I may not ever NEED my weapon, I will continue to carry it with me. There is no 100% chance I'll always be safe, so one must reasonably take measures to close that gap where society cannot provide the assurance I need.

Kick the habit. You're enslaved to it and it brings you no benefit. Try it for a few days: ditch the knife. Nothing will change. And let's be frank: if you ever would be raped, it's probably by a guy you know and trust, family and friends are mostly the ones that rape women. Knives nor guns will help you there. Also, the rapist might use the knife against you. Do a risk analysis: what is the bigger threat and how plausible is it to occur? What is the smaller threat and how plausible is THAT to occur? Ditch the knife, I'd say.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
And on that note, it's WAY too early in the morning for this Railgun to still be vertical.

Time to hit the sack. I'll read through later tonight when I get to work and formulate cogent responses once I've had my coffee.

Oyasumi Nasai

I'll hit the sack too, sorry friends. I love the discussion so far, but one has to sleep too.

Gussuri oyasumi.

originally posted by: ForteanOrg

originally posted by: NavyDoc
Pretty disgusting if you ask me. You value pacifism over the sanctity of a woman's body and would call her a murderer if she killed a rapist-- and that's what you called it--murder. Disgusting.

Ah, yes. You keep playing that card, don't you? But again: I don't buy it. Once more: I'm against killing anybody. I'm against raping anybody. So, I am against anything that makes it easier to do either. Therefore I am against civilians (and actually most cops) to wear arms. And I'm against those who rape. They should be arrested by the Police and brought to justice. That's a bit boring, I agree. And it is much better for the reptile brain to imagine that dirtbag to be splatted into little pieces by some giant insect splatter. But that would not be just.

Justice is boring and slightly disgusting. Correct.

So you'd rather they'd be able to complete the rape rather than being stopped before or during commission? Because that's what you advocate if you want to prevent the woman from defending herself--she must endure it and then hopefully survive it and then possibly she might get justice in the end. Nope. I'd rather she be able to stop it and not have a rape in the first place. But then, I dislike violent criminals and do not give them equal footing as innocent victims. I'm odd that way. It has nothing to do with having a reptilian brain than not having a smug condescending worry for the safety of violent criminals.

a reply to: NavyDoc

Im not saying its wrong to kill in self defence.

If someone broke into my home they would find themself full of shot gun pellets ora crossbow bolt.

And i would not feel guilty.


But I would feel sad.

I have used violent force to stop a rape. I did not enjoy it one bit. I would do it again without hesitation, but I still hated it.

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: NavyDoc

Im not saying its wrong to kill in self defence.

If someone broke into my home they would find themself full of shot gun pellets ora crossbow bolt.

And i would not feel guilty.


But I would feel sad.

I have used violent force to stop a rape. I did not enjoy it one bit. I would do it again without hesitation, but I still hated it.

And that makes you a good man.

originally posted by: ForteanOrg

And I'm against those who rape. They should be arrested by the Police and brought to justice.

So nice of you to be anti-rape when your solution is to arrest and prosecute rapists after then are done committing their assault.

I am for empowering women and enabling them to prevent it from happening in the first place. But it appears the Netherlands, from what was cited above, has a bit of a rape culture going on so I guess we should not expect any different position than one that attempts to minimize the victim and their chances of preventing the attack.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: Lyxdeslic

No one is saying that what so ever...
And I am sure that those that feel this man was in the right would have no issue with a cop doing it so not sure where you are coming from.

Precisely, no clue why that member had to interject race into the equation. That's irrelevant.