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Ohio shopper shoots teen dead outside mall for trying to steal newly bought Nike Air Jordans

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posted on Dec, 29 2014 @ 11:15 AM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: ForteanOrg

Oh well.. are guns legal in your State?


Firearms are legal in my state. Tasers and chemical sprays are not.


Weird. Unless these firearms are shotguns to shoot deer with.. really, I'm not particularly fond of that either. But allright, perhaps in some rural areas where you still have to shoot your food, well. maybe.

But it beats me (sic) why a State would allow a deathly weapon and forbid a non-lethal defense method. Are you guys allowed to hit a guy with your bare fist, or is that forbidden too? Clubs? Why is one allowed - the other not?




posted on Dec, 29 2014 @ 11:16 AM
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What the hell kind of world do we live in where people are seriously defending someone who, for all we know, fully intended to murder the person he was robbing. Yes, he was 16. Yes, it's tragic any time life is lost.. But really, are you people seriously claiming that the victim (the man being robbed, not the idiot that wanted to commit armed robbery) shouldn't have defended himself? WHAT IN THE WORLD ARE YOU THINKING??

Do you people really want to live in a world full of victims? A person who wants to commit armed robbery is going to do so whether or not they have a gun. They might have a knife, a bat, a wrench.. Anything can be a weapon. What you people are advocating is that we take away the right to defend ourselves based on your HUNCH that this, and other criminals, only want to intimidate you into handing over your goods, and don't want to actually harm you?

You can take that bet if you want, but I will choose to defend myself, my family, even complete strangers, EVERY SINGLE TIME.

Don't like it? Then remain in your fantasy world - but please keep your juvenile and idealistic views out of this world of reality.

For the record, a CIVILIZED country allows the general population to be secure in their persons and belongings. This means that people have an unalienable right to self defense - be it against criminals, government, or whatever else.

Are you people seriously claiming that he should have just handed over whatever the criminal asked for? That this 16 year old is somehow not responsible for his actions? That the victim should have just taken the chance and surrendered his right to self defense?

I don't think you people care about what is right, or justice.. You're just afraid of guns.



posted on Dec, 29 2014 @ 11:16 AM
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a reply to: Sremmos80

You are leagally better off defending your home with a firearm than a knife. A knife requiers that you be next to your assailant which a prosecutor could use to indicate malice.



posted on Dec, 29 2014 @ 11:16 AM
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originally posted by: ForteanOrg

originally posted by: Krakatoa
a reply to: ForteanOrg


Can you please stop using the phrase, "in a civilized country " . It is a derogatory slight against an entire country, and not needed in this conversation. Let's stick to the immediate topic at hand, shall we?


I do that intentionally. If that upsets you, I can't help it. I can try to suppress it, but in fact it is one of the main points I try to get across: how uncivilised countries are that think that killing a person solves a problem. It merely creates new ones.

But rest assured: it's nothing personal. You can be an American, live in a CCW state and still be civilised. But statistically you're a minority there.


That last bit is not true and founded more on preconceived notions than actual facts.
As for what is "civilized" that is a matter of opinion. I'd suggest that a state that disarms law abiding citizens and leaves them defenseless in the face of thuggish criminals and advises to hide in your home rather than going out is not civilized.



posted on Dec, 29 2014 @ 11:19 AM
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originally posted by: ForteanOrg

originally posted by: Krakatoa
a reply to: ForteanOrg


Can you please stop using the phrase, "in a civilized country " . It is a derogatory slight against an entire country, and not needed in this conversation. Let's stick to the immediate topic at hand, shall we?


I do that intentionally. If that upsets you, I can't help it. I can try to suppress it, but in fact it is one of the main points I try to get across: how uncivilised countries are that think that killing a person solves a problem. It merely creates new ones.

But rest assured: it's nothing personal. You can be an American, live in a CCW state and still be civilised. But statistically you're a minority there.


Then I guess you won't mind me referring to your country as a submissive country then? That is how I see it if your views are in the majority. And I cannot understand how anyone can live a life that requires giving into criminal demands and being an enabler to that lifestyle. If that is civilized, you can have it...not me.



posted on Dec, 29 2014 @ 11:21 AM
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originally posted by: ForteanOrg

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: ForteanOrg

Oh well.. are guns legal in your State?


Firearms are legal in my state. Tasers and chemical sprays are not.


Weird. Unless these firearms are shotguns to shoot deer with.. really, I'm not particularly fond of that either. But allright, perhaps in some rural areas where you still have to shoot your food, well. maybe.

But it beats me (sic) why a State would allow a deathly weapon and forbid a non-lethal defense method. Are you guys allowed to hit a guy with your bare fist, or is that forbidden too? Clubs? Why is one allowed - the other not?


Tasers are potentially a deadly weapon.

Where are you getting "non-lethal?" The correct term is "less than lethal."

Who knows why tasers are illegal in some states? Who cares. Even where they are legal I would never choose a taser over a firearm.



posted on Dec, 29 2014 @ 11:24 AM
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originally posted by: TinkerHaus
Are you people seriously claiming that he should have just handed over whatever the criminal asked for?


I am.



posted on Dec, 29 2014 @ 11:24 AM
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a reply to: TinkerHaus

I would say also that if you tase someone who is holding a firearm the muscle tensing could EASILY cause them to pull the trigger. That not safe, nor does it neutralize the imminent threat.



posted on Dec, 29 2014 @ 11:27 AM
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originally posted by: ForteanOrg

originally posted by: TinkerHaus
Are you people seriously claiming that he should have just handed over whatever the criminal asked for?


I am.


Then you, my friend, do not deserve the freedom you have. You, who would roll over, spineless, covering, and allow a criminal to have his way with you..

You are welcome to your extreme pacifism, but please don't expect other people to just take it. Some of us do have spines, and want to keep them intact.

I think Carlin was correct, and the "pussification" of the world is almost complete. Bunch of slaves.



posted on Dec, 29 2014 @ 11:30 AM
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originally posted by: ForteanOrg

originally posted by: TinkerHaus
Are you people seriously claiming that he should have just handed over whatever the criminal asked for?


I am.


It wasn't about shoes at that point, it was a matter of life or death. What kind of fool would roll the dice with their own life? (rhetorically of course)



posted on Dec, 29 2014 @ 11:31 AM
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originally posted by: KrakatoaThen I guess you won't mind me referring to your country as a submissive country then?


Most certainly not, sir! I would be honoured to be labeled living in a submissive country if that meant that we tried to avoid killing.


That is how I see it if your views are in the majority.


They are.


And I cannot understand how anyone can live a life that requires giving into criminal demands and being an enabler to that lifestyle. If that is civilized, you can have it...not me.


Actually, our Police is quite good. They don't shoot a lot either. So, what is the response I would have when I saw a robber coming? Flee. If that could not be done: hand over the goods. Then report it to the Police and my insurance company. And robbery is taken very seriously here, so chances are that the Police will indeed capture the robber. Which will be put in jail. Not for eternity either, but for a decent time, in which we try to convince him that there are better ways to earn a living. Even invest in him. Which eventually may help. And if it does not, we will simply keep trying and trying. That may sound weird to you, but to me that's the core of civil behaviour: set the example.



posted on Dec, 29 2014 @ 11:33 AM
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a reply to: ForteanOrg




Most certainly not, sir! I would be honoured to be labeled living in a submissive country if that meant that we tried to avoid killing.


We all try to avoid it here too. Taking another life is a last resort.



posted on Dec, 29 2014 @ 11:45 AM
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a reply to: NOTurTypical

That is your personal opinion but it is not what is being said here.

It is being said here that even the presence of the gun opened all the doors this man needed to kill this kid and rightfully so.

It is being said that if you wait you are dead and that shooting to 'stop' needs to be your first reaction or this kid will kill you rape your family and kick your dog...



posted on Dec, 29 2014 @ 11:52 AM
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originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: NOTurTypical

That is your personal opinion but it is not what is being said here.

It is being said here that even the presence of the gun opened all the doors this man needed to kill this kid and rightfully so.

It is being said that if you wait you are dead and that shooting to 'stop' needs to be your first reaction or this kid will kill you rape your family and kick your dog...


Quite on the contrary. The criminal forced the situation into the final stage...winch forced the victim to use his last resort to stop the threat. There may be more to the story we are not hearing yet too. The criminal may have demanded the goods, and the victim refused. Then the criminal brandished raising the that and crime to armed robbery. We duo not know yet do we?



posted on Dec, 29 2014 @ 11:57 AM
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originally posted by: TinkerHaus

originally posted by: ForteanOrg

originally posted by: TinkerHaus
Are you people seriously claiming that he should have just handed over whatever the criminal asked for?


I am.


Then you, my friend, do not deserve the freedom you have. You, who would roll over, spineless, covering, and allow a criminal to have his way with you..

You are welcome to your extreme pacifism, but please don't expect other people to just take it. Some of us do have spines, and want to keep them intact.

I think Carlin was correct, and the "pussification" of the world is almost complete. Bunch of slaves.


Meow. Purrrrrr


Seriously: give it a try, I'd say. Come over here and try to rob somebody. You'd be surprised how easy it is, they will simply hand over the goods in most of the cases, you don't even need to bring a gun! Then there only is a minute chance that our Police will show up on your doorstep and arrest you. Even then, you will first get a fair trial and even if there is the slightest doubt that you are guilty they will let you go. But even if you were found guilty (and you can have a number of trials) you will be put in jail. But not for eternity - after all, nobody got killed and only some stuff was robbed. But say a few years. They will feed you properly, you can have your own little room, you own TV, Internet, you can read books. Study if you like. Have sex with the wife if need be, we don't want your to reap havoc to other inmates. That would not really improve THEIR chance of reintegration much.

Then, after you had your punishement you can simply return to society. Why, they even will give you the fairest chance possible of getting a job and be a profitable member of society. Because the whimps, yellow-bellies and pussies that make up our country understood a LONG time ago that it does not pay to do otherwise.

I hope to grow old here. Chances are I can - without being shot by either a crook or my own police.



posted on Dec, 29 2014 @ 12:02 PM
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originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: ForteanOrg




Most certainly not, sir! I would be honoured to be labeled living in a submissive country if that meant that we tried to avoid killing.


We all try to avoid it here too. Taking another life is a last resort.



Duly noted and thoroughly appreciated.
edit on 29-12-2014 by ForteanOrg because: he did not spell thouroughly prouperly.



posted on Dec, 29 2014 @ 12:06 PM
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originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: NOTurTypical

That is your personal opinion but it is not what is being said here.

It is being said here that even the presence of the gun opened all the doors this man needed to kill this kid and rightfully so.

It is being said that if you wait you are dead and that shooting to 'stop' needs to be your first reaction or this kid will kill you rape your family and kick your dog...


I said killing another person is a last resort. But when that gun is pointed at you, that vaults it right up to the top of the list. At that moment it's either fight back or possibly lose your life, and that's not something I'm willing to roll the dice of chance with. I'm just not, I can't read the other person's mind, I don't know what their mental state is. I mean seriously, they are pointing a gun and threatening death over a material possession, they can't be all that stable.



posted on Dec, 29 2014 @ 12:08 PM
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originally posted by: ForteanOrg

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: ForteanOrg




Most certainly not, sir! I would be honoured to be labeled living in a submissive country if that meant that we tried to avoid killing.


We all try to avoid it here too. Taking another life is a last resort.



Duly noted and thoroughly appreciated.


Lol, that edit note is hilarious.



posted on Dec, 29 2014 @ 12:11 PM
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originally posted by: ForteanOrg

But it beats me (sic) why a State would allow a deathly weapon and forbid a non-lethal defense method. Are you guys allowed to hit a guy with your bare fist, or is that forbidden too? Clubs? Why is one allowed - the other not?


You are free to defend yourself with your bare hands or a baseball bat but I frankly would not want to do either, I have no desire to get into a close quarters physical confrontation with an assailant.

Additionally, what of the people who could not protect themselves with their hands or a bat?



posted on Dec, 29 2014 @ 12:13 PM
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a reply to: Krakatoa>>>> His friends should be charged as accomplices to a homicide and sentenced accordingly. The shooter/would be victim should have his identity protected and not be charged and hopefully the community will rally to his defense.




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