Something has been bugging me for a while. I read somewhere that Osama denied involvement in 9/11 but he did congratulate the perpetrators. I want to know if anyone has a video of him stating his involvement. Is there any proof of Qaeda having anything to do with the attacks. I wonder if this is just another big lie that was designed to give the American people a figure to hate.

XAOS

Did Osama do it??

NO!!

Osama had nothing to do with it.

My own theory on why he would say he did on video tapes knowing if he did the rest of the free world would hate him is because maybe the US granted him immunity to say he did, that's why he still hasnt been caught. And no, he is not dead.

Need to get some sense in here.

Osama bin Laden had everything to do with it. He stated before the attacks that he would attack America again. The FBI had evidence that terrorists would use commercial planes to use against us. Osama decalred Jihad in 1998(?). Who else could have been behind it? And do not say the American goverement, they did not do it.

And of course he'd deny it. If you were convicted of murder would'nt you deny it?

it is illogical for a terrorist to deny his feat, because he creates that attention to pass a message, generally. Osama is/was a top terrorist, but he probably didnt do it since he apparently denied it. The "evidence" (when is that word being banished from the american language?) found amounted to speculation about the terrorists identities and a briefcase with a Quran and a flight training video, which i would call rather very meager. What were the other candidates aside from AlQaeda ? By the way, does AlQaeda even exist ? :-)

He did it.

9/11 is always going to be controversial as it is seen as the catalyst that sparked off everything that we see in the Middle East today. So instead of blaming the guy who had already proven himself to be an adept terrorist before WTC, we look for someone else to blame.

But that's our way. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

My only fear is that some people will never believe that he did it. Even if the proof in front of them is totally solid.

The videos which surfaced within a week after 9/11, after Bush pointed finger at Osama Bin Laden, seem to be what's at issue here.

1. I'm told, from some Egyptian friends who are very anti-Islamic, that what Bin Laden says in Arabic (which is muffled, hard to hear and probably edited) in the "denial" video bears little resemblance to the English translation given. No-one can state the age of the tape either.

2. There must be somewhere around on the web that has posted exactly what he said, accurately. I don't understand why people who bother using this board take what US major channels present them with at face value (but I know that's not many of you).

3. I personally have no reason to believe that what Bin Laden said was true or false, I just know that it hasn't been translated accurately. But there is 100% evidence of all of Bush's falseties ever since 9/11. And the year prior.

The proof that osama Bin laden was behind Sep 11 is as solid and believable as the proof of WMD in Iraq. Both are total BS.

I remeber distinctly, first reports, after 9/11, a statement by Bin Laden declaring that while he was proud of the perps, he did not fund, nor plan, nor train for the act, and even offered to stand before an international NEUTRAL court to be tried by a NEUTRAL jury or panel. Afghanistan even agreed, if solid proof that Bin Laden was behind the attacks, they would turn him over to an INTERNATIONAL NEUTRAL court. But just like the US refusing to let the UN go browsing for WMD and letting Saddam disarm under UN pressure, the US refused any sort of offer, basically said # you to the Taliban and Bin laden. They already tried, convicted, and sentanced Bin Laden on really nothing more than spider farts.

Sure Bin Laden threatened to attack the US again. SO? He aint the only terrorist mad man out there. We have one active in the US right now who is one of the biggest threats to American security and well being: his name is george Dubya Bush.

There is more solid evidence of US involvement or complicity in the attacks, as well as Israeli involvement, than there is of Bin Laden involvement.

Just look at the "evidence" convienetly found the very same day as the attacks!

1. Arabic flight manuals, fuel consumption calculators, and a Koran just left right at Logan airport! Wpw, what nice terrorists! Saves the FBI all the hassle of having to spend tax dollars to track it!

2. Mohamed Attas indestructable passport! (should have strapped that passport to flight 11's black box. Hell, all the terrorists should have had one for all three blackboxes, since coincidentally, none survived!)

3. The total relaxed and mellow attitude of the president during the event! What a guy! A major national crisis is at hand, but he decides to be a public servant and keep reading books about goats to the kiddies! Mr Rogers, look out!

4. the fact that basically the 911 calls from fllight 93 were seized by the fbi, as was the black box and cockpit recorder, and no info on it was released to the public. (out of respect for the families, of course.)

I needent go on, I could spend forever filling pages with all the "it just dont add up" bits. But theres plenty of sites to go to.

Bin Laden is an asshole. Theres no question there. But did he engineer that day of hell?

NO. The war on terror begins with arresting the terrorist mastermind sitting in the oval office.

It was an US-Israeli plot to build hate against the Arab world.

My opinion, but hey... opinions are like arseholes, everyone's got one.

[Edited on 3-6-2003 by Fantastic_Damage]

The thing that made me think is exactly what other people have said: WHY WOULD HE DENY IT? Terrorist just dont deny involvement in something this big. If he were willing to congratulate those involved, why wouldnt he just go the step further and say "I did it! Over here! Al-Qaeda hates the US! We crashed planes into you! NYAH NYAH!" Sure, if you were in custody, under death sentence, with no virgins to go to heaven for you might deny murder, but he was free, and in an undisclosed location. I would think a terrorist would take all measures to let people know that he did it. And to all those who think saddam was even remotely connected with Sept.11: BAH!

XAOS

My personal feeling is that UBL himself didn't plan this attack, but a group associated with Al-Q did. (There are hundreds of these groups).

So is UBL guilty of planning the crime? Probably not. Is he guilty of supporting the crime with money etc.? Probably. So is he an accomplice? Yes.

That's consistent with the tapes we've seen of him along with the correct translations. There is no doubting that UBL was pleased with these attacks, or that he knew some of the people involved, but I don't think he's the mastermind behind it, just the figurehead.

"Dumbya did it! Didn't see him so can't prove it, but all the evidence points his way."

CIA 101 placing blame in the most likely place that the American tax payers will most likelly want to believe.

It's simple why Osama got the blame. Even more obvious when all this war and stragetic weapoons survellience and intelligence cant even nap the potential threats. But the excuse has not warn the sharade thin yet though.

I agree with dom on this one. I definately think that OBL knew that 9/11 would take place, and i believe he partly funded it which makes him an accomplice but not the number1. I think he is quite happy to oversee his little empire of terrorists, advise them and fund them etc...

Xaos, u say if he was a terrorist he would admit to the crime to accept the responsibility for the attention, praise etc... well what better than to approve of the network you created, create speculation over who did actually do it, and sit at the top of all this... recieving the praise and respect of all your followers and looked upon as an almost god-like figure?

Sounds like any leaders dream. Just a thought.

But the problem is that there is no doubt, everyone thinks he did it. There is no speculation either, you ask anyone on the street in america, say "9/11" they reply with "I'm gonna kill that bin laden bastard." or they say that saddam did it, which is beside the point. Bin laden is sitting at the top of something, but it is not speculation.

And wasnt it just so convinient that Osama was in Afganistan, which at the moment was not letting America put a pipeline through it?

XAOS

Bin Laden once said in an interview that 9/11 was the work of "Bush the father" and I can tell you, the Bushes aren't sweeties.. I know that and I am not even American. I wish I was though.... just saw an excellent American movie... yeah, I love everything American except for Bush and his gang.. So guys please understand that I am not Anti American like some thought I was, but I am anti Bush and his secret gang of terror.

Now think for your self and tell me this, who got better from the attacks ? That is: who got more power, more secrecy, more money to spend etc ? Why is Bin Laden still walking around ? Why is Saddam still a fugitive ? I thought America had the technology to trace anything up to 1 meter accurate ? I think they are protecting Bin Laden and Saddam... because they need the population to be in fear, the more freedom they can take away from us. And let me tell you this, now that our electronics technology is getting so far, it wouldn't be that difficult to control humans electronically..

Why did they removed all the juicy articles from PNAC website ? What's their plans all about ? How come Bush started to talk about Iraq as soon as 9/11 was a fact ? Remember he blamed Iraq for the Anthrax letters ? He had no single evidence... just like the fake evidence they presented to the world with pictures etc.... but hey, still no WMD's. But they were sure they said....

If that's not enough reasons to demand some serious investigation, I don't know.... I mean if we do live in a democracy than we have the right to know what's going on. We the peoples have to demand our rights and not buy the crap they are telling us all the time...

How many more lies do they have to spread around before anyone get the guts to stand up and say "what are you talking about Bush" ?

I tell you like it is, I don
't trust anyone from the Bush Administration..... we are so many years further... any chosen president in Afghanistan ??? NO.... it's still Karzai, who had a job at an American oil company not very long ago.... so who do they think they are fooling ? Ever heard of Eurasia ?

I've heard many different version of the reasons behind all this...9/11 it was meant to happen. But why ? that is what I'm trying to find out......

I think that most of what Bush has done can be put down to political oppurtunism. For instance, 9/11 gave Bush a "cause" with which to justify attacking Iraq. It also gave him some political capital to drive through some of his own pet projects (lower taxes for his mates, etc.).

To be honest though, most politicans would consider something like 9/11 to be a political oppurtunity... not that I seriously think any politicians would be complicit in causing it.

The only other question is why certain bits of the investigations have been removed from the public domain? And I reckon the answer to that is all going to revolve around Bush's links to the Bin Ladens, poor intelligence decisions (which could have stopped 9/11, and hence would end people's careers), and the fact that the US media are currently giving Bush carte blanche to do and say whatever he wants without being questioned too vigorously about it.

That's the extent of the conspiracy, but it's enough to convince people that other things must also be going on. Which is understandable.