I, personally, welcome all the Jesus threads

a reply to: Yeahkeepwatchingme

Yes, its indeed a very sad world we live in. I have become so pessimistic about the ability of humans to see two angles and not just their own narrow opinions. I lean more atheist but i can't claim there is no god so I prefer Agnostic. I'm a college educated man but I feel I can learn from spiritual teachers, since I believe theres a lot that i don't understand and can learn from these types of people.

I treat others the way I like to be treated which is a fundamental teaching of Jesus and other religions. I enjoy talking about science with my friends and learning about the universe. Why would i hold myself to one belief when I can learn from both sides as long as I keep an open mind to ideas, no matter what my own personal bias may be.

a reply to: JDmOKI

Respect is an awesome thing, huh?

I know wonderful atheist and wonderful religious people, can't we find something better to do?

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

I believe in god but any man trying to tell me they know god and their way is the right way is also a pompous arse.
Because nit one of us knows the truth.
Anyone telling ne they do is either deluded or a liar.

In that vein of thought

For, "Who can know the LORD's thoughts? Who knows enough to teach him?" But we understand these things, for we have the mind of Christ.

I don't know how many atheist have spent their entire lives searching the scriptures, there are many I suppose but most people I know who are atheist haven't.

Now I have met many on line that know the scripture, but if you only read it to find what supports your preconceived notion then that's a problem, I think one should search and meditate on the word.

It is very complicated and i have had to much eggnog.

a reply to: JDmOKI

Yeah tell me about it. I'm a Christian but I used to be an atheist. I see it from both sides, but I don't believe in some old white haired guy sitting on a cloud running the show. And I don't believe in a loving god commanding people to death.

I think people should be able to believe in what they want, be it god or lack of god, without people telling them what to do.

There are countless individuals who complain about such religious threads, but I think the solution is for them to either ignore them, or follow the course of action I will describe below. One of the problems in our world is that everyone has an opinion that they feel they must share, especially when they think that the work of others is folly. Where threads on ATS are concerned it is one thing to counter specific points or ideas in a thread, but it is something completely different to attack ideas just because one disagrees with them. In my opinion this thread is in that vein, in that you are accusing those with specific beliefs of various things that cannot be proven. If we were dealing with a factual subject it would be one thing, but one cannot offer any proof, nor can one disprove, religious or philosophical claims. The only way in which one can disprove such a claim is through the use of logic, but this is an academic proof and is not indicative of the existence of non-existence of anything, such as God or other specific religious ideas.

I just have this overwhelming feeling that your thread is pointless, not to be mean or anything. I just do not understand what your aim is. It appears to me that you might simply be trying to reinforce your own beliefs, considering that you are not asking a question or trying to learn anything; nor are you attempting to disprove anything; nor are you attempting to make a case with the intention of educating others. Of course you have the right to make such a thread, but I just wish that people would stop and ask themselves what their motivations are before creating a thread. It just appears to me to be a mindset similar to a group of guys ganging up on someone and making fun of them. A sort of ribbing with your elbow and saying "look at those dummies," in an attempt to increase one's own stature within the group, or receive praise from like-minded individuals. All without having really said anything. And I will repeat that one of the main problems in our world stems from everyone wishing that the beliefs of others could reflect their own, as well as saying things that imply as much, such as how they enjoy watching the folly the others. Such ideas persist and are actually on the rise within the US. A war is being waged against ideas, and a mass attempt to make things more socially acceptable is underway, although that is a completely different can of worms.

Again, this stems from people pushing to eradicate any ideas that do not conform to their own. And your semi-debasing comments reflect only a small portion of religious beliefs across the globe, and judging by these comments I could easily infer that you do not grasp the concepts you poke fun at to the extent that you can attempt to actually judge such beliefs. Evidence for this is found in the lack of any attempt to address an idea, present it in its religious context, and show how it is fallacious, incorrect, immoral, etc. It is much easier to make off-handed remarks stemming from your disagreement with such ideas. And I am not defending any religion, because to defend or attack the ideas of any belief system requires first an understanding and systematic breakdown of those ideas, followed by an analysis. And I haven't mentioned a single religious belief or concept. What I am attacking is a mindset, and I think I have presented the beginnings of a case showing that individuals should be more accepting of one another's belief systems, whether religious or not. I also think that one can disagree with the beliefs of others, but they should keep such disagreement to themselves unless they are prepared to actually make some sort of argument. But again, one will find it next to impossible to actually prove or disprove anything that is not based on the scientific method, in which results are reproducible. So an argument against a religion MUST come from that religious doctrine itself.

Anyway, let me clarify something before closing. I did not intend for this to be insulting to you OP. I apologize if it comes off as such. I suppose I am "calling you out" to a certain extent, and it is only natural to feel a need to defend yourself. However, I do not wish you to think that I am attempting to pick a fight or anything of that nature. I simply think you are wrong, and nothing more, by presenting the ideas you did in the way you did. But I reiterate that you have every right to do so, and I suppose that in a way I am doing what I railed against, despite the fact that I really tried to make a somewhat cohesive argument, although it does require one to understand some of the implied ideas and also to generate their own arguments, since I did not elaborate as much as I would have liked, and presented more of a framework than anything. I do not wish to stifle your opinions, rather I am urging everyone to spend more time and effort into arguing against any ideas, especially those ideas for which one cannot go to Google and find an easy, factual answer. Despite the fact that I disagree with you, I do not hold this disagreement against you or anything like that. In essence, I am not claiming your beliefs or opinions are incorrect, so please do not feel the need to defend your ideas. I also do not feel that my post is off-topic considering that there were no specific ideas that we can argue for or against, just in case anyone was thinking as much. In closing, I would actually like it if you created a thread in which you made specific points against the religious ideas you dislike. I think it would be a great thread, even if I disagreed with every single idea you had. I also am not above the mistakes I've outlined in this post, and I hope I did not give that impression. I am just as guilty as anyone, but I am making a conscious effort to improve in this regard, and hopefully everyone else will as well. If not, I suppose things will be as they have been, which is not so bad in the grand scheme of things. Also, I will even star and flag your thread.

I, personally, welcome all the Jesus threads. I love to read the convoluted somersaults through which the human mind can thrust itself in attempts to explain to each and every one of us our very existential existence.

You sir, are a troll and I respectfully submit that if trolls can exist so can Jesus, God and Santa.

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: Yeahkeepwatchingme

My spirit simply answered his spirit. In the end, all men have free will. I am most certain he will use his.

No need for anything more..

I guess women aren't involved.

Exactly how does an all-knowing creator not know what his creations will do before he creates them? Exactly how does an all-powerful creator go about creating someone who doesn't do exactly what the all-knowing, all-powerful creator wants done?

I've always found the Christian concept of free will to be hilariously ludicrous.

originally posted by: Stormdancer777

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

I believe in god but any man trying to tell me they know god and their way is the right way is also a pompous arse.
Because nit one of us knows the truth.
Anyone telling ne they do is either deluded or a liar.

In that vein of thought

For, "Who can know the LORD's thoughts? Who knows enough to teach him?" But we understand these things, for we have the mind of Christ.

I don't know how many atheist have spent their entire lives searching the scriptures, there are many I suppose but most people I know who are atheist haven't.

Now I have met many on line that know the scripture, but if you only read it to find what supports your preconceived notion then that's a problem, I think one should search and meditate on the word.

It is very complicated and i have had to much eggnog.

In the post prior to this one, you said, "Can't we find something better to do?" Now, in this one,you're proselytizing. That's the problem. Believers want non-believers to do something other than express their opinions while the believers don't apply that standard to themselves. It's impossible to have a conversation about anything with fundamentalists without them proselytizing. I think a thread that discusses this head-on is a good idea. Jesus is the trojan horse through which the more clever proselytizers do this. Although you haven't yet done this, the Jesus and love stuff gets dumped and the threats of hell come out when the targeted person doesn't take the Jesus and love bait. Jesus is the veneer on the termite infested table.

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
a reply to: JDmOKI

Respect is an awesome thing, huh?

I know wonderful atheist and wonderful religious people, can't we find something better to do?

As soon as people stop trying to get us to join their cults we will find something better to do. I don't need to be in a club that's more exclusive than humanity itself. The fact that we exist proves we exist, nothing more.

originally posted by: Stormdancer777


Now I have met many on line that know the scripture, but if you only read it to find what supports your preconceived notion then that's a problem, I think one should search and meditate on the word.

You read these scriptures in the language they were originally written in? From original sources, not copies? If the answers are no, then please stop calling these the words of "God" or "Lord," they are merely the words of other men. We know how reliable the words of men are, and they are even less so when passed orally for generations before they are ever physically recorded.

a reply to: JiggyPotamus

For a thread being pointless, as you claim, you certainly had a great deal to say about it. You don't want people to attack religious ideas because those ideas aren't facts? Perhaps you haven't noticed that believers pretty consistently present those ideas as claims of fact. When they do that, they open themselves up to being challenged to prove those claims of fact via testable evidence. Why you want to give them a free pass is the mystery. History has demonstrated that religious movements can become extremely dangerous to the well-being of many people. It's in the best interests of all of us to be able to distinguish between belief and fact. Threads like this are important.

originally posted by: centhwevir1979

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
a reply to: JDmOKI

Respect is an awesome thing, huh?

I know wonderful atheist and wonderful religious people, can't we find something better to do?

As soon as people stop trying to get us to join their cults we will find something better to do. I don't need to be in a club that's more exclusive than humanity itself. The fact that we exist proves we exist, nothing more.

I agree. I absolutely refuse to give them a free pass to proselytize and spread their agenda. We have as much right to speak out as they do.

originally posted by: centhwevir1979

originally posted by: Stormdancer777


Now I have met many on line that know the scripture, but if you only read it to find what supports your preconceived notion then that's a problem, I think one should search and meditate on the word.

You read these scriptures in the language they were originally written in? From original sources, not copies? If the answers are no, then please stop calling these the words of "God" or "Lord," they are merely the words of other men. We know how reliable the words of men are, and they are even less so when passed orally for generations before they are ever physically recorded.

The originals were also the word of men.

a reply to: AreUKiddingMe

Me too AreUK. As I approach our existence, I see this wondering about a Creator as central to our lives. I come down on the side of yes, like you and so many others of us. I just find that the One Way approach is to limiting for my personal movement. Maybe not so for others but for me it is. You say "only in our over-inflated minds to we think we have the answers to the Universe" to be so true. Boy do I. Thanks

a reply to: Stormdancer777

I have found that having an open mind is not as cut and dried as I believed it to be in my youth. From my experience an open mind can get me into some deep deep belief traps that in some cases have taken years and decades from which to emerge. In the event that you just offered a complement, thank you. If you were being facetious, then, well, you may be right. I may just have to wait another period of time to realize it.

a reply to: JDmOKI

JDmOKI I suppose one might easily have arrived at a position that I am an atheist. In stating my view of ONE WAY belief systems I was making an attempt to isolate them as just that, and only that. Exclusive belief systems. In my slow crawl towards my own development I have been involved in exclusive beliefs but have managed in my own way to now continue on in more of an inclusive way. In this, for quite a while this excluded "exclusive" beliefs. Only recently have I been able to be more accepting, in my own way of course, those who still hold to those manners of thought. The OP was a brief attempt to express this. I quess, that for you I was unsuccessful.

originally posted by: Metallicus

I, personally, welcome all the Jesus threads. I love to read the convoluted somersaults through which the human mind can thrust itself in attempts to explain to each and every one of us our very existential existence.

You sir, are a troll and I respectfully submit that if trolls can exist so can Jesus, God and Santa.

Nicely put Metallicus. However, you are the second person to label me a troll, and I am agast, for having hung out here for a while, I have come to view trolldom like so may others with distain. You do me credit with your respectfull submission and ask that you do me the honor of helping me to further my understanding of how my position as stated in the OP might be escaping my understanding of trolldom. Thanks.

a reply to: centhwevir1979

As soon as people stop trying to get us to join their cults

I don't want you in my cult, lol

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

Terry my openmindedness has got me into a lot of trouble.

a reply to: Yeahkeepwatchingme

I understand where the atheist are coming from, we all have doubts,

“He who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind”

I'm getting sea sick.