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Useless Air Force 1, isn´t it?

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posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 04:12 PM
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I'm not surprised


My post above is only my opinion btw, I forgot to add that bit, but its interesting to see that even Boeing themselves aren't sure about it.




posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 04:14 PM
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Well, we do have Boeing members you know...hehe....

Anyhow, it's a moot point. Any escort craft would be ordered to take the hit for Air Force One, just as a secret serviceman would do. (providing the flares, chaff, and electronic countermeasures failed of course, which is a pretty big IF)....



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 04:26 PM
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In theory, an airliner with enough forward momentum and a good pilot can do a loop. I suspect it would have to dive a few thousand feet and gain ~max speed before it attempted.

Yes, most if not all airliners can pull off a barrel role. I've seen 707, 737 (I believe) and other pull off a role at air shows. I've seen B-52s do the same.





Anyhow, it's a moot point. Any escort craft would be ordered to take the hit for Air Force One, just as a secret serviceman would do. (providing the flares, chaff, and electronic countermeasures failed of course, which is a pretty big IF)....


Sounds good, may be a procedure to it BUT who would be able to intercept an A2A missile? Most of the escort fighters would be far from AF1 and would have already intercepted and fired at the bandits long ago. If any made it though the sweep then the missile would either be spoofed by the countermeasures or impact AF1. Say, if an F-15C was behind AF1 and a missile was inbound AND the fighters MWS picked up the missile the fighter could try and spew out countermeasures and if it where a newer F/A-18-F-16 it could have dropped a towed decoy and all but it would be hard maneuver a fighter into a missile that already had its target and is moving ~2-4 times faster then the fighter...

[edit on 15-12-2004 by ChrisRT]



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 04:35 PM
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I agree with the food etc, and really, the RAF would most likey be one of the first to know about a nuke launch and where it was going, so obviously we would inform the US, and they could launch before the nuke hit them, if that makes any sense. If, I was Prime Minister, one of the things I would invest in would be advanced Surface-to-Air weaponry, capable of detecting and shooting down nukes. Something like a laser. But a crazy thought I have just had, what about launching a nuke into the enemys nukes path over the atlantic, and create, A) a large war. removal bomb, or B) a huge EMP blast in the atmophere, and then watch the nukes fall to the sea, as I said, a crazy idea.



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 04:44 PM
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Originally posted by VoyagerNX23
I agree with the food etc, and really, the RAF would most likey be one of the first to know about a nuke launch and where it was going, so obviously we would inform the US, and they could launch before the nuke hit them, if that makes any sense.


The US (among others) have satalites specifically for detecting missile launches, and you can work out the trajectory after about 15 seconds.



If, I was Prime Minister, one of the things I would invest in would be advanced Surface-to-Air weaponry, capable of detecting and shooting down nukes. Something like a laser. But a crazy thought I have just had, what about launching a nuke into the enemys nukes path over the atlantic, and create, A) a large war. removal bomb, or B) a huge EMP blast in the atmophere, and then watch the nukes fall to the sea, as I said, a crazy idea.


All three options are currently being followed
Infact, a Missile Defence Shield test intercept today failed because the intercepting missile refused to launch. The Strategic Defence Initiative (Starwars) has been sought after since the early 1980s, but hasnt ever shown much promise :/

The laser idea has been shoved onto a modified 747, but that has to be actually in the area at the time of the launch. Its next to impossible to intercept a ICBM after its peaked beause thats when it sheds the missile part and seperates the MIRV system, becoming a vastly smaller target, and to hit a ICBM before peak from the ground requires lasers we just dont have currently.

The problem with letting off large bombs in the path is that a nuclear detonation is still a relatively small affair, you would need several hundred to blanket the area and create a shield ... for all of 30 seconds or so. It wouldnt protect against staggerd launches, and chances are it wouldnt even knock most MIRVs off course.

EMPs can be hardened against, so again out with that one.



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 04:46 PM
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Sounds good, may be a procedure to it BUT who would be able to intercept an A2A missile? Most of the escort fighters would be far from AF1 and would have already intercepted and fired at the bandits long ago. If any made it though the sweep then the missile would either be spoofed by the countermeasures or impact AF1. Say, if an F-15C was behind AF1 and a missile was inbound AND the fighters MWS picked up the missile the fighter could try and spew out countermeasures and if it where a newer F/A-18-F-16 it could have dropped a towed decoy and all but it would be hard maneuver a fighter into a missile that already had its target and is moving ~2-4 times faster then the fighter...


I don't remember saying it'd be easy, hehe...

In a threat situation though, there would be fighters VERY close to Air Force One, as they were on 911... Nothing is fullproof, but I'd wager there's quite a bit that AF1 could do in such situations.



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 06:55 PM
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^^^ Agreed!





The laser idea has been shoved onto a modified 747, but that has to be actually in the area at the time of the launch. Its next to impossible to intercept a ICBM after its peaked beause thats when it sheds the missile part and seperates the MIRV system, becoming a vastly smaller target, and to hit a ICBM before peak from the ground requires lasers we just dont have currently.

The problem with letting off large bombs in the path is that a nuclear detonation is still a relatively small affair, you would need several hundred to blanket the area and create a shield ... for all of 30 seconds or so. It wouldnt protect against staggerd launches, and chances are it wouldnt even knock most MIRVs off course.

EMPs can be hardened against, so again out with that one.


You forgot about the Aiges cruisers and the PAC-3s... Also, the 747ABL would be in the theater of the missile silos. I think that we would see them being fueled up if lucky and have 747ABLs in the air 24-7.
Are you guys talking about having a nuke detonated in the vicinity of AF-1? If so, remember that regular fighter/attacker-bombers where and are able to easily do that and escape so I think that the EMP and nuclear hardened AF-1 could come out of it scaved or unscaved.



posted on Mar, 26 2005 @ 05:38 AM
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okay, okay..we can say: No, the AF1 is not useless!


My opinion: It´s a waste of money for one person, technically some unbelievable work, but all this usefull inventions for the president?

this security stuff can increase the the flight secure for every passenger, if available for every plane.


anoher questions:

does other country´s have some sort of AF1?

regards

dacruz



posted on Mar, 26 2005 @ 07:09 AM
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i would speculate that anyone intimatly involved with airforce one would be rolling on the floor laughing right now.

think about it. ONLY special airforce personell work with af1. with all the new airframe materials and tech. available, to asume that af1 is anything like a 747 except for looks is sheer thoughtlessness. if it were MY baby it would have been totaly rebuilt several times over. stregthend as well as lightened. lets you add even more shielding and equipment to be added.

any defense/attack systoms are probaly on the experimental list backed up by the best standard tech.
the tubines have a good chance at being made from the newest tech possiby even being "one of a kind", just resembleing normal turbines.

someone brought up coolants/lubricants. haveing to be replenished . have you ever seen aircraft parts before assemby? they are huge. my father/uncle and grandfather once worked for mcdonall douglass. i took many tours of the manufactureing facilities when i was youn. in ww2 my grandmother worked inside the wing stucture of b-24's. the wing is primarily fuel and hydrolics along with the controll systoms. i would put a crawl space in for minor repairs to be acomplished in flight such ase refilling crittical liquids. it would not be a nice place to work but it is doable.

as for the refueling birds if they use the same fuel what is to stop them from useing it. if there is not a way for this then someone should be shot for gross incompetance.

my guess is that what we know as airforce one is anything but a 747. after all this bird is to provide safety for "the most important man" in the world. camoflage is a very usefull tool. the ability to hide something in plain sight. if this is not the case why is it not upgraded too newer improved models every few years. and remember no one is alowed to take a realy good look at it. it would be unreasonable to asume that the safety of such a world leader is not protected useing the very best.



posted on Mar, 26 2005 @ 09:05 AM
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Originally posted by dacruz
does other country´s have some sort of AF1?


I know Taiwan has a Airforce one. When they fly over Mainland's airspace, the AF1 is escorted by jetfighters.


And theres more to AF1 then just AF1, the U.S has like AF2, AF3, etc, etc. I remember our PM Howard was given the Airforce 3 to fly home after September 11 if i remember correctly.


from drogo
my guess is that what we know as airforce one is anything but a 747. after all this bird is to provide safety for "the most important man" in the world. camoflage is a very usefull tool. the ability to hide something in plain sight. if this is not the case why is it not upgraded too newer improved models every few years. and remember no one is alowed to take a realy good look at it. it would be unreasonable to asume that the safety of such a world leader is not protected useing the very best.


I'am wagering that the S-400 missile could still give the plane a run for it's money. It doesn't have to hit the plane, even hitting the countermeasure could cause large problems.

I'am assuming that something this big can't be stealth can it? I mean, it should have a RCS equal to like a 2-storey mansion.

[edit on 26-3-2005 by rapier28]



posted on Mar, 26 2005 @ 10:12 AM
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Taiwan got a own AF!?


maybe as secure option, if China invades Taiwan?...

you have a picture of these Taiwan AF1?

kindest regards

dacruz



posted on Mar, 26 2005 @ 02:49 PM
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Of course Taiwan has an air force; their air force has been superior to China's for years, though that is changing now. As for Air Force One, I think it is pointless to even discuss the aircraft. The majority of features on that plane are classified to everyone. And yes, you can bet that Air Force One is designed for a nuclear war. They haven't spent all that technology in it for nothing. I wouldn't compare it to a normal 747. You don't compare the President's limousine to a normal Lincoln Town car limo. The thing is powerered by like a diesel truck engine and basically all the Secret Service will admit to is calling it a "mini-tank on wheels." Air Force One is the same, I'd imagine.



posted on Mar, 26 2005 @ 07:35 PM
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Originally posted by dacruz
Taiwan got a own AF!?



No probs,

This is the only picture i can find.



It's a 737-400?



posted on Mar, 26 2005 @ 07:56 PM
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I think the -400s have the winglets, don't they?

Could be a -300 then.




posted on Mar, 27 2005 @ 04:01 AM
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www.johnstonsarchive.net...


have a read - very interesting , especially the part about using explosives to try and catch the escaping bombers



posted on Mar, 27 2005 @ 04:01 AM
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edit : double post

[edit on 27-3-2005 by Harlequin]



posted on Mar, 27 2005 @ 04:12 AM
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Originally posted by rapier28

Originally posted by dacruz
Taiwan got a own AF!?



No probs,

This is the only picture i can find.



It's a 737-400?


cool, does anyone got details on this? about the Taiwan AF1?



posted on Mar, 31 2005 @ 01:30 AM
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Maybe they have some secret shuttle or rocket somewhere that they just bung into space upto the space station if a nuke chucking competition breaks out.



posted on Mar, 31 2005 @ 03:14 AM
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Originally posted by DeltaNine
I think the -400s have the winglets, don't they? Could be a -300 then.

Not all 400's have the winglets, the 400D variant does not If I recall correctly. However AF1 is a -200 model.

AF1 is by no means a soft target or an easy kill and while the details are classified, the countermeasures no doubt go beyond chaff and flares.

However, if the President has to get out of Washington fast, he is more likely to get on this plane which one of the 4 is always on alert:

E-4B National Airborne Operations Center



The E-4B has electromagnetic pulse protection, an electrical system designed to support advanced electronics and a wide variety of new communications equipment. Other improvements include nuclear and thermal effects shielding, acoustic control, an improved technical control facility and an upgraded air-conditioning system for cooling electrical components. An advanced satellite communications system improves worldwide communications among strategic and tactical satellite systems and the airborne operations center.
www.globalsecurity.org...




Does not have the creature comforts of AF1, but probable better connectivity with the command structure.



posted on Mar, 31 2005 @ 07:08 AM
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I was talking about the Tawian Presidents AC, FredT. Not AF1.

I agree re George would go to the C3 bird.



[edit on 31-3-2005 by DeltaNine]



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