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My Challoner Douay Rheims «English Vulgate»

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posted on Dec, 25 2014 @ 10:14 AM
The Douay Rheims Bible surfaced in a time when Gutenberg's printing press was still a mere century old, and only about half a century had gone by since Martin Luther nailed his 95 Theses to the door of some church in Wittenberg that would ignite the Protestant Reformation and mark the start of the end of Imperial Catholicism. All of this would change the face of Christendom for all future. To put this reproduction I now own into some perspective take a look at a few important events that happened over the coarse of roughly a century:

1516 ==> The Greek (but modern) Textus Receptus is published
1517 ==> Martin Luther sparks the Reformation
1526 ==> Tyndale's first edition of the NT in English
1534 ==> The Protestant Church of England claims independence
1557 ==> Wittingham's Geneva NT is published in English
1553-1558 ==> Mary I of England AKA Bloody Mary persecuted and beheaded Protestants and rivals left and right
1560 ==> The complete English Geneva Bible is published by exiled Protestant scholars in Geneva, Switzerland
1582 ==> Rheims NT published by the English College at Rheims
1592 ==> Pope Clement VIII publishes his Sixto-Clementina Vulgate in Latin
1599 ==> The «Modern» Geneva is reissued with updated spelling and grammar
1609 ==> The complete Douay Rheims Bible is Published by the English College at Douay
1611 ==> The «Authorised» and Protestant King James Version is published in «modern» English

These were troublesome times, and not only was religious preference potentially lethal, there were lit. tons of cheap and erroneous bible translations circulating, mostly in Latin but also in other translations, like German or English. Both the Catholic Church and the reformist Church of England wanted an authoritative English translation they could call their own, the Roman Church produced an updated Latin version of Jerome's Vulgate, called the Clementine Vulgate, and in England the Catholic clergy wanted an English version of the Latin Vulgate to counter the growing number of popular and affordable Protestant bibles that came served in people's mother tongue.

While most protestant bibles from this era, like the original German Luther Bible and the King James Version were based on a Greek codex called Textus Receptus-- the Douay Rheims was mostly based on Jerome's Vulgate, and at least the OT was further based on the work laid down under popes Sixtus V and Clement VIII in editing and publishing the Sixto-Clementine Vulgate in Latin during the 1580's and 90's.

The Douay Rheims was issued just 2 years before the KJV and 10 years after the 1599 «Modern» Geneva. All in all, Jesus in this version is just as misunderstood and Paul is just as inquisitive cursing people left and right, but they seem to have avoided the main «draconian traps» I normally search for in different bible versions. But like virtually all other bibles produced in these tumultuous times, it contains the «Comma Johanneum», a well known forgery. It's a doctrinal comma interpolated between vv 7 and 8 in 1John 5 (my strike-out):

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. [KJV] 1st Epistle of John 5:7-8

My main guess is that this bible will end up collecting dust together with other historical bible-translations I own, such as the '99 Geneva and the 1611 KJV. However, I do from time look up a certain verse for reference in these historical bibles, but there is hardly any «authority» left in either of them, whether theologically or scientific. Since the Reformation our biblical source library has grown considerably and with the advent of textual criticism and scientific method-- a modern «critical» study bible like the English Standard [ESV] or the New International [NIV] dwarves editions like the King James or in this case, the Douay Rheims-- in terms of any REAL «authority». Anyway, a well sought after addition to my growing library.

So, does anyone have any particular insight to this bible? Things to look for and so on? Anything worth mentioning about this bible version?

Douay Rheims Bible ==>
Luther's 95 Theses ==>
Bloody Mary ==>
The Geneva ==>
The Sixto-Clementine Vulgate ==>
Comma Johanneum ==>
Textus Receptus ==>
edit on 25-12-2014 by Utnapisjtim because: ref. for textus receptus, 99 Geneva and Tyndale NT + typos & syntax + reproduction

posted on Dec, 25 2014 @ 10:27 AM
I cant add any info for you but would like to ask your opinion on the Net Bible .I use Esword so can check many other versions but only have a few standard book versions . a reply to: Utnapisjtim

posted on Dec, 25 2014 @ 10:59 AM
a reply to: the2ofusr1

As far as I've heard the E-sword app is mint. I prefer to use but there are other good ones out there too, like the and -- any one would meet even the most absurd criteria relating to bible studies. I do however have the pleasure of tending a growing library of books relating to language and religion, enabling me to work offline at full throttle, and even if the power went out. It does have its side-effects though. Yesterday I sat for nearly ten hours making a new language, complete with a full translation of Genesis chapters 1 to 2:3 (the seven days).

BTW: For the first time I can say hand on my heart that Jesus Christ was delivered on Christmas Eve. In the shape of a Douay Rheims English Vulgate

posted on Dec, 25 2014 @ 11:08 AM
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Very cool part of church history. Where did you find it?

posted on Dec, 25 2014 @ 11:33 AM
a reply to: NOTurTypical

Bought it off of Amazon. It was rather cheap compared to the all-over quality of the book, which is way beyond that of most other such reproductions available. As far as I have managed to figure out, the publisher of this book, Lepanto Press seems to receive funding and publish books for what looks to be a Catholic home-schooling service called «Our Lady Of Victory School». This particular printing claims to be an identical reproduction of a 1914 edition published by John Murphy Company. It contains quite a few of what looks to be chalcographic illustrations, though I see they say they're pen-and-ink, but all over very nice handiwork and a well crafted book.

I probably should add that most if not all editions of the Bible have their own personalities, especially the books that came out of the printing press revolution, and many of them carry nicknames based on flaws, forgeries, typos or other deviations.
edit on 25-12-2014 by Utnapisjtim because: syntax

posted on Dec, 25 2014 @ 12:07 PM
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Oh a reproduction? I thought it was an original. With that said, still really cool. I have a reproduction of a 1908 Sears catalog. Still cool to look at it and see what the original looked like 100+ years ago. I'm amazed at the prices. Did you know back then Sears sold pre-fab homes via catalog?

posted on Dec, 25 2014 @ 12:55 PM
a reply to: NOTurTypical

Hehe. Well, the text inside is what interests me, not the amount of wear, uselessness and general incomprehensibility the originals typically sport. This book was historic in that it was Catholic and that it was printed in English and served as counter-weight to the Protestant Geneva and KJV. All of these bibles are all very different from each other, often fundamentally so, reflecting or representing different theological and doctrinal schools and enclaves (and for that matter conclaves and exclaves), and the bloody and groundbreaking religious schism of the 16th century England is a chapter in history that is well worth a look into, in terms of power drama and society wide conspiracies.
edit on 25-12-2014 by Utnapisjtim because: …

posted on Dec, 25 2014 @ 01:22 PM
I just came across this new subject on another thread and thought I would drop a link here .I just started reading the stuff and really cant say much about it myself yet .

In the Beginning
In 2009, The Chronicle Project revealed a discovery of immense proportions. It was called Self Defining Hebrew.
It is not a system created by the project, but the one that the language of ancient Hebrew was built on. With this
discovery, a world of information came to light regarding the Hebrew scriptures, which has the ability to reshape
the very way we look and think about the very beginnings of mankind as a race, and our potential future. Here, are
some of these findings. a reply to: Utnapisjtim

posted on Dec, 25 2014 @ 01:34 PM
a reply to: the2ofusr1

I remember that page from elsewhere, it's interesting, but far from accurate, but a nice engine to run a verse through to get something out that you never expected. One can often predict with some level of precision what definitions of syllables and two or three letter roots are, but the Chronology Project's attempt at reinventing ancient Hebrew is far from accurate or consistent and there are plenty traps to fall into in identifying states and types of verbs etc. and working with giving letters and syllables semantic and lexical definitions... well, apart from that a fun supplement, it could very well push you in the right direction. Best way is to learn Hebrew ground up and build up a glossary and learn the grammar like you would with any other language you can learn. I'd say that with the right books in store, you'd learn enough in a year studying on your own to being able to produce your own qualified translations.
edit on 25-12-2014 by Utnapisjtim because: ...

posted on Dec, 30 2014 @ 02:03 PM
I'd like to mention a few verses from Paul's epistles as rendered in the Catholic Douay Rheims, all are belonging to postscript salutations:

If any man love not our Lord Jesus Christ, let him be anathema, maranatha.[D-R]1 to the Corinthians 16:22

From henceforth let no man be troublesome for me; for I bear the marks of the Lord Jesus in my body. [D-R] To the Galatians 6:17

The brethren who are with me, salute you. All the saints salute you; especially they that are of Caesar's household. [D-R] To the Philippians 4:22

Salute all the brethren with a holy kiss. I charge you by the Lord, that this epistle be read to all you holy brethren. [D-R] 1 To the Tessalonians 5:26-27

Is it just me or are his tails rather red and pointy?
edit on 30-12-2014 by Utnapisjtim because: Colossians Philippians and added two more ps-quotes plus removed 1Tim


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