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If Out of body experiences are real.Then what else is.

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posted on Dec, 24 2014 @ 07:32 PM
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When you sift through the evidence as to the question of whether "OUT OF Body", is real or imagined, and is asked. to the "Court room". If the Jury after pondering the evidence comes up with the answer that this is real. Then surely a major paradigm shift has occurred. From then on, all questions regarding the human condition, have to take in the transient nature of our present state. Then ask what is the environment of our permanent state, and why do we have to participate in this non permanent state?.

I think that as the human body has all the definitions of "Machine". The interface between the user and the "Construction" is located in the Gyros, part of the brain. Where this is like a lock code, which only allows the present user to motivate one body at one particular time. It is operated remotely, from a place outside of linear time, if so. then no dimensions exist as well. Which the user retreats to, when the machine is under repair, during periods of rest.

When the machine is operational, the experience requires the total focus of the user, which allows for only one state of consciousness to exist at that time, which is in linear time. Therefore the experience is total immersion. So all contemplations of the real or permanent state is rendered as conjecture, which may or may not be fact, that is if their is a permanent state.. victorzammit.com... Why does this state of affairs exist? I have the suspicion that consciousness comes in undefined packets, and the state of affairs exist purely to define a packet. How does this model sit?




posted on Dec, 24 2014 @ 07:51 PM
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This is all that I know about consciousness (video below), and I leaned it from a video game.

Very deep!


edit on 24-12-2014 by NotMoose because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 24 2014 @ 08:06 PM
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originally posted by: anonentity
When you sift through the evidence as to the question of whether "OUT OF Body", is real or imagined, and is asked. to the "Court room". If the Jury after pondering the evidence comes up with the answer that this is real. Then surely a major paradigm shift has occurred. From then on, all questions regarding the human condition, have to take in the transient nature of our present state. Then ask what is the environment of our permanent state, and why do we have to participate in this non permanent state?.

I think that as the human body has all the definitions of "Machine". The interface between the user and the "Construction" is located in the Gyros, part of the brain. Where this is like a lock code, which only allows the present user to motivate one body at one particular time. It is operated remotely, from a place outside of linear time, if so. then no dimensions exist as well. Which the user retreats to, when the machine is under repair, during periods of rest.

When the machine is operational, the experience requires the total focus of the user, which allows for only one state of consciousness to exist at that time, which is in linear time. Therefore the experience is total immersion. So all contemplations of the real or permanent state is rendered as conjecture, which may or may not be fact, that is if their is a permanent state.. victorzammit.com... Why does this state of affairs exist? I have the suspicion that consciousness comes in undefined packets, and the state of affairs exist purely to define a packet. How does this model sit?


You propose a number of thoughts here, and some confusing terminology as well. If it's your goal to propose a mechanism describing a certain phenomena, I have a few suggestions. First, you should define the terms that you use--some people may be a bit confused about the specific terminology you use and what it is exactly that you're referring to. Second, you should re-organize your ideas a bit so they are flow in a more logical and natural fashion. This way it will be easier to clearly see how your premises led to your conclusion. This is not at all meant to discount your ideas; I think you say some interesting things. Just found myself a bit confused at certain points

Just a point of clarification, is the "Gyros" a term you made up to represent something theoretical? I wasn't clear on that--I'm not aware of any area of the brain called the Gyros.



posted on Dec, 24 2014 @ 08:08 PM
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a reply to: anonentity

I have had over three hundred OBE's and can almost induce them at will. I think i understand where you coming from. Here's what I think.

First we all exist as consciousness in spiritual form. The dream state and the OBE state are the same thing, they are one level of spiritual existence which we existed in before we were born in the physical "machine".

When we die we go back to that spiritual existence without a human body and experience it very similar to the dream/spiritual/OBE/astral vibration of consciousness. In these states consciousness is very flighty, and light, and hard to maintain a linear perspective. You are very easily side tracked in the OBE state, and your dream shifts to something different. What you think is what you get in the OBE/astral realms.

This physical body, "machine", we are using is a tool basically for us to learn how to focus our consciousness. If you think about it, the smartest people had the best ability to focus on what they wanted and how to obtain it. They put all their mind power into an idea to create a reality that they wanted for themselves.

Now this is the part that gets weird. We are living in a dream. Right now our consciousness is too slow to pick up on the billions of little flashes of reality per second we are getting. If you learn how to expand your mind through meditation and psychedelics you start to understand that reality does come from the inside out and that we are in a spiritual co-creation with ourselves.

This is how the law of attraction, telekinesis, OBE's, basically all psychic phenomenon work. The whole universe is a living conscious organism with an infinite amount of timelines that we choose through our subconscious mind to experience.

So yeah basically everything is fake, or everything is real. Nothing in between. I prefer to say everything is real, hallucinations, dreams, OBE's, physicality, everything the mind can possibly perceive is real.

I think what I'm saying is, All packets exist at the same time and consciousness flows through those packets according what it chooses. From our perspective, In our physical universe nothing is permanent, all that exists is in constant change now, now, now, now now, and so on.



posted on Dec, 24 2014 @ 08:15 PM
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The mind can imagine some crazy things. That's all I can honestly add to this conversation.



posted on Dec, 24 2014 @ 09:47 PM
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a reply to: kayej1188
www.nytimes.com... nope I didn't invent the term but if their is an interface it might suggest this would be the point.



posted on Dec, 24 2014 @ 10:13 PM
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originally posted by: booyakasha
a reply to: anonentity

I have had over three hundred OBE's and can almost induce them at will. I think i understand where you coming from. Here's what I think.

First we all exist as consciousness in spiritual form. The dream state and the OBE state are the same thing, they are one level of spiritual existence which we existed in before we were born in the physical "machine".

When we die we go back to that spiritual existence without a human body and experience it very similar to the dream/spiritual/OBE/astral vibration of consciousness. In these states consciousness is very flighty, and light, and hard to maintain a linear perspective. You are very easily side tracked in the OBE state, and your dream shifts to something different. What you think is what you get in the OBE/astral realms.

This physical body, "machine", we are using is a tool basically for us to learn how to focus our consciousness. If you think about it, the smartest people had the best ability to focus on what they wanted and how to obtain it. They put all their mind power into an idea to create a reality that they wanted for themselves.

Now this is the part that gets weird. We are living in a dream. Right now our consciousness is too slow to pick up on the billions of little flashes of reality per second we are getting. If you learn how to expand your mind through meditation and psychedelics you start to understand that reality does come from the inside out and that we are in a spiritual co-creation with ourselves.

This is how the law of attraction, telekinesis, OBE's, basically all psychic phenomenon work. The whole universe is a living conscious organism with an infinite amount of timelines that we choose through our subconscious mind to experience.

So yeah basically everything is fake, or everything is real. Nothing in between. I prefer to say everything is real, hallucinations, dreams, OBE's, physicality, everything the mind can possibly perceive is real.

I think what I'm saying is, All packets exist at the same time and consciousness flows through those packets according what it chooses. From our perspective, In our physical universe nothing is permanent, all that exists is in constant change now, now, now, now now, and so on.


"Everything is fake and everything is real" I can agree with most of what you said. In the last analysis you have a high probability of being right. But because this physical experience is one of total immersion we cant know. Where people meet UFOs and missing time is experienced, where levitations occur up beams of light etc. This experience could well be what is happening to the "Other body" and what is experienced on recollection very similar to dream recalls. Since its mental focus that locks us in any endeavour. The alien visitors if they exist, could very well be from this other place, that exists out of linear time where space time, is totally up to the observer. Where the environment is a creation of the observers consciousness, to the subject its all very real. Also where the choice must also exist, to maintain linear time or not. As with astral projectors or even ghosts.



posted on Dec, 25 2014 @ 12:01 AM
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a reply to: anonentity

Yep. I do think that some abductions are completely astral or mental, while other are physical. And yes, exactly, some of these alien beings are completely mental with no physical counterpart. They can still interact with us because we are, first off, spiritual mental consciousness beings. Second we have a human body. Therefor channelers could be talking to a completely nonphysical inter dimensional entity which would be invisible to our human perspective if we were standing face to face.

However if you were to train and expand your consciousness to pick up on "invisible" wave lengths you might be able to see them face to face, or channel yourself. These beings possibly only exist in the non physical realms which would mean they are real but less physical than us. Everything is completely up to the observer.



posted on Dec, 25 2014 @ 01:36 AM
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a reply to: anonentity

The problem is that the only way to prove out of body experiences, namely astral projection, where one can actually be in another form - i.e. their "spirit" - is only able to be proven by the individual experiencer.

The experience can prove to that one has stepped outside of the physical world, in a non-corporeal body, and entered another domain.

This would prove the existence of the "spirit", and validate the concepts that relate to it.

For those that doubt this, of course, they would have to prove it to themselves, and if you have not had such an experience, it might just seem like another kind of "dream" as opposed to another conscious form in a different "dimension".

If you would like to know how it is experienced, it is not like a dream, where you are observing a story from a passive position, it has an entirely different quality to it, you can feel your "astral" body and move and make choices as to what to do, as opposed to a dream where the individual has little control over what occurs. You can literally walk around your house and also look at your body that is asleep and when you return to it, waking up in the same position that you were in prior to separation.

You can argue that it is the product of the brain, however, be that as it may, it is still the experience of a non-physical reality, and by the same token, one might also say that the physical world is a product of the brain as well.
edit on 25-12-2014 by SystemResistor because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-12-2014 by SystemResistor because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-12-2014 by SystemResistor because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 25 2014 @ 06:47 AM
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The Monroe Institute has done a massive amount of work on OOBEs and claims to be able to 'train' almost anyone to do it. It has got to be almost a science there now, yet, anything subjective like that has to be experienced individually and cannot at the moment be measured by our science. The journeys can be validated by observers and then questioning the observed as to their actions at the time of being observed.

Read some of Robert Monroe's books to find out about his experiments and experiences, "Journeys out of body", "far journeys" and "ultimate journeys" as they are really interesting and thought provoking.



posted on Dec, 25 2014 @ 08:03 AM
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When it comes to OOBE, NDE, Lucid, Night Terrors... it's easy to see why people over time built spiritual and religious ideologies around this various phenomena.

My problem is, in my own studies, I find that whatever is going on here in this other place, the Astral or w/e you want to call it, doesn't always pan out as 'truth'. There are many examples, but let's take the NDE experiences for one. While definitely intriguing and amazing, the facts remain that sometimes people's spiritual experiences in NDE don't pan out in some way (e.g. they are told they are dead, they can't go back, they go back anyway with no explanation). This is one example of many where the so-called spiritual beings we encounter in these sort of places don't always tell the truth. Believers think NDE can't be debunked, when in fact, there are some obvious inconsistencies in the experience person to person. Also, there is the disconcerting fact that NDE spiritual experiences can be artificially induced.

In fact, all of this phenomena is very subjective.

Another example is with people who claim to be able to see around the room or go to places in physical reality. We've all heard the anecdotal stories about the patient who died on the table. The problem is, when this has actually been tested, there hasn't been one person who could prove they were actually in the room in spirit (by viewing strategically placed objects before the experiment...etc). Not one.

So while the experience is very real to the person having it, I would advise that what we experience should be taken with a grain of salt, instead of just falling into some wacky New Age beliefs. I'm also not convinced that what we call the spirit realm, or the astral realm, is really that at all, but instead may be a thoughtform reality construct created by the collective human consciousness.



posted on Dec, 25 2014 @ 08:24 AM
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a reply to: booyakasha

I agree 100% to piggyback if I can, I believe that the material manifestation of a spirit in a mass body insulates the spiritual existence, what we perceive in dreams, deja vu, telekinesis, astral projection are simply the ability of the spiritual existence to seep or leak between the material 2 to the 3rd dimensional realm to the non material 4th and 5th dimensions of space.

Only the full death and permanent ceasing of the physical body will release the spirit permanently, as long as the brain and body functions, the spirit has a host, and lastly our consciousness will only remain aware of physical world only because it has a living mass body that it is attached to.

The only question one might ask, is that since all OOB are really attached to a physical body no matter how long the heart stops or clinical death might be pronounced, we know that body itself is still living and thus a host, tethering the spirit only until complete and permanent death.

So It is my estimation that there is a possibility that immediately after full physical death, the spirit might possibly return to a physical body, this is the basis for reincarnation, so the dream state or OOB might possibly only be an artifact, whereby the spirit cannot inhabit 2 physical mass bodies at one time so it is simply displaced to float around or shift temporarily to space, awaiting re manifestation into a physical body.



posted on Dec, 25 2014 @ 01:57 PM
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originally posted by: Calalini
Believers think NDE can't be debunked, when in fact, there are some obvious inconsistencies in the experience person to person. Also, there is the disconcerting fact that NDE spiritual experiences can be artificially induced.

You don't state what "obvious" inconsistencies there are. I would contend there are NO serious ones.

originally posted by: Calalini
Another example is with people who claim to be able to see around the room or go to places in physical reality. We've all heard the anecdotal stories about the patient who died on the table. The problem is, when this has actually been tested, there hasn't been one person who could prove they were actually in the room in spirit (by viewing strategically placed objects before the experiment...etc). Not one.

Completely untrue. You are obviously not well versed in the OOBE literature. There are MANY examples of people whom the attending doctors regarded as dead later describing people in an operating theatre whom they had never met and reporting accurately their conversations - all this when the person had a flat EEG and had clinically died!

originally posted by: Calalini
So while the experience is very real to the person having it, I would advise that what we experience should be taken with a grain of salt, instead of just falling into some wacky New Age beliefs. I'm also not convinced that what we call the spirit realm, or the astral realm, is really that at all, but instead may be a thoughtform reality construct created by the collective human consciousness.

That's right! Anything provided that it has no spiritual significance, eh? It amuses me that, when something seems to confirm the mainstream religious belief in an afterlife, some people dismiss the genuine experiences of serious people as "some wacky New Age beliefs". The only thing that's wacky is the way you think.



posted on Dec, 25 2014 @ 02:55 PM
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a reply to: anonentity

hi anonentity,

I take from your last paragraph when you talk about consciousness. this element is the key to differentiate the machine from what we (and our projections to other planes) are: I doubt a robot could ever experience and O.B.E., although I have not positive confirmation this has not been tried.

I am not even sure animals do experience O.B.E. even though in this case I read of some reports showing they actually do.

So if we link the O.B.E. experience to our consciousness more than our brain cells, then we should also admit animals do have a consciousness of some sort.
If O.B.E. are caused by neuro-disfuctions or some other altered neurological dynamics within our bodies, then whether or not animals have consciousness is irrelevant as long as they possess a neuro-system.

Are O.B.E. induced by external sources? Triggered by a set of electro-magnetic elements occurring at that given moment?

It could be, but I lean toward the idea that Astral travels come from our still unknown quality called consciousness (or its twin the unconscious).
Best



posted on Dec, 25 2014 @ 03:29 PM
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a reply to: micpsi

I think we are well beyond the question of whether an OOBE is real. If any one has had one their is no question, but for those that have not we have to leave it to the jury. The facts suggest that after examination the jury has to say that it is real. From this perspective the question would be, the usual, What, why, Where, and when. Is it.

What....Consciousness existing without a physical body.

Why.....Its in the nature of what Consciousness does.here ....

Where... When not in a physical body.

When.....When consciousness exits the physical body.

My definitions are a bit close, and probably not very helpful, but, All parts deem it to be an act of Consciousness, an act of thinking, Which of course needs a Mind. Which might suggest that when Consciousness is experiencing an OOBE. it is still in a Mind or still has one.. Since the human body has all the definitions of a machine, and is only the sum of its parts, activated, by this non physical part. Then it follows that the real permanent world is a mind outside of linear time, it would have to be, to be permanent, and apart from the vagaries of perceived physical existence. If it was subject to the same laws, its existence could be threatened. If it exists outside of Linear time it exists outside of physical dimensions, then the user whilst in the OOBE must be able to be everywhere at once. it sounds a bit like the mind of you know who.

It might also figure, that such a thing as the Physical world, Time and distance etc. also exists as a construct within the Mind, purely for coherency, thus creating a logic and reason framework to create with. Which would tend to suggest that, that in one way, all is an illusion, but in another that the illusion is real. Then its no wonder anomalies exist ,because some things bleed through from one state to another as the linear framework is undergoing construction, to establish the illusion of the working reality.



posted on Dec, 25 2014 @ 04:00 PM
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Here is a guy that sums up what I believe. Yes, it is 3 hours, but if you have the time you may find it very interesting.

It is to much to sum up here, but it relates to the OP's subject and then sum.




Consciousness, The Real Mind, NDE's & Cloning.




posted on Dec, 25 2014 @ 04:37 PM
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originally posted by: WilliamWAS
a reply to: anonentity

hi anonentity,

I take from your last paragraph when you talk about consciousness. this element is the key to differentiate the machine from what we (and our projections to other planes) are: I doubt a robot could ever experience and O.B.E., although I have not positive confirmation this has not been tried.

I am not even sure animals do experience O.B.E. even though in this case I read of some reports showing they actually do.

So if we link the O.B.E. experience to our consciousness more than our brain cells, then we should also admit animals do have a consciousness of some sort.
If O.B.E. are caused by neuro-disfuctions or some other altered neurological dynamics within our bodies, then whether or not animals have consciousness is irrelevant as long as they possess a neuro-system.

Are O.B.E. induced by external sources? Triggered by a set of electro-magnetic elements occurring at that given moment?

It could be, but I lean toward the idea that Astral travels come from our still unknown quality called consciousness (or its twin the unconscious).
Best



OBBEs as an act of what Consciousness does, so induction cant be clear cut, because as I see it, everything we do is an act of Consciousness, so it figures that they can be induced in as many ways, as that facility can operate. I would say they could be induced by Electro magnetism. Hypnosis, Anaesthetics, Death. Plus a myriad of other ways. Because who is to say that normal waking life isn't already a type of OOBE.






posted on Dec, 25 2014 @ 04:58 PM
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a reply to: NotMoose

Wow, that really got me thinking.

This would mean that ''I'' have not really lived the times before I became unconscious by head injury, and it also implies that the next time I lose consciousness completely, ''I'' will actually die.

I hope this isn't true.

OT:

I'm still on the fence about OBEs being genuinely out of body instead of inside the mind, since there should've been more proof if this is really the case.
Up until now I have tried countless times to achieve an OBE, but have not even come close. I find it incredibly difficult to keep my mind awake while my body falls asleep, mainly because the longer I meditate, the more my body gets uncomfortable until I give in to the urge to move and I am back at step one.

Does anyone know a good way to get around this issue? I'd greatly appreciate tips on this since OBEs and lucid dreams are things I have been trying to achieve without much success for quite a few years now.



posted on Dec, 25 2014 @ 05:27 PM
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originally posted by: Skaffa
a reply to: NotMoose

Wow, that really got me thinking.

This would mean that ''I'' have not really lived the times before I became unconscious by head injury, and it also implies that the next time I lose consciousness completely, ''I'' will actually die.

I hope this isn't true.

OT:

I'm still on the fence about OBEs being genuinely out of body instead of inside the mind, since there should've been more proof if this is really the case.
Up until now I have tried countless times to achieve an OBE, but have not even come close. I find it incredibly difficult to keep my mind awake while my body falls asleep, mainly because the longer I meditate, the more my body gets uncomfortable until I give in to the urge to move and I am back at step one.

Does anyone know a good way to get around this issue? I'd greatly appreciate tips on this since OBEs and lucid dreams are things I have been trying to achieve without much success for quite a few years now.


I think they are Outside the body and in the Mind at the same time. They become relevant when they are still in present real (linear time), and any information gleaned is considered relevant. Be assured that you are already having what is considered OBBEs all your intent should be focused on remembering them.

The acceptance of an OOBE as being a part of conscious reality, Is no small endeavour, as the fear factor included as being in a conscious state that can be considered the same as being dead, is no small hurdle to overcome, You could also add in the sleep paralysis, and whooshing ,as another fear inducing factor. That when you come out of one, you are to all intent and purpose paralysed. None of this is permanent, and of no concern, it only last a few seconds, as the autonomic nervous system continues working. Then when you finally achieve it, the fear factor kicks in and you freak out , return to the body and try to forget it at quickly as possible. Or on the other hand remember it as a life changer.



posted on Dec, 25 2014 @ 07:11 PM
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a reply to: anonentity

yep we are living in a dream. I read somewhere, not sure how accurate i am, but, If you take all physical matter and take the gaps out of the atoms and smash it in to one single piece, it would be the size of the tip of your thumb.

I believe our physical reality is projecting out of the center of our being and creating everything we can see,exactly like a dream only more dense. (physical reality and dream reality are different densities of projected consciousness) Each person has a designated amount of energy projected by our consciousness to create what we perceive, our physical senses are the anchor points in time, take away any and all physical senses and your consciousness is free to travel, but its hard to remember you are conscious, your sort of on auto pilot when dreaming.

Thats what our physical bodies are for. To train our minds to become what people consider to be Gods of the afterlife and spiritual realms, and what people consider to be gods of our own physical reality. Where eventually, (i'm talking like 400 years or more down the road), we can use our minds to create physical matter and manifest anything like its a lucid dream.

I think thats when humanity truly wakes up.


edit on 25-12-2014 by booyakasha because: (no reason given)




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