Still Think There should be Pentagon Video ?

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Iwinder

Yes, because everyone in the military is a fully certified firefighter that doesn't need equipment to run into a burning building. Way to twist what I said.

You expect me to believe that if the building you worked in was on fire, you would be able to run back in and perform zero visibility search and rescue in conditions that you can barely breathe in?

Get real.

Yes I do when I was working I was fully trained in CPR and Firefighting and this was a retail outlet. My wonderful wife works for EXXON Mobile here in town and she is trained to expect the worst at any given time. Full body suit with heppa filtration no problem. She has been trained on how to navigate black corridors and either exit the building or look for survivors.

When I worked retail my training was done yearly and as far as I know it still is, the wife she gets a retraining session every six months.
I did not twist anything you said, that building at the time of the photographs was burning maybe one half of percent or less of the total square footage. Now the collectors out front picking up pieces of wreckage sure look sooty to me, my god some of them looked like they could not breath.

All the while behind them people are trapped and dieing....Yet they continue on with their aluminum pick up duty as though nobody is in distress in the building.
Once more Priorities where are they?

Try and save survivors or walk the front lawn and pick up bits of foil?
Regards, Iwinder

a reply to: Iwinder

Charge into a building and risk becoming a victim, or let firefighters do what they're trained to do and do what you can to assist.

Contrary to your opinion, most people have no training in burning buildings. At the time they didn't know where people were, if the building was going to collapse, or anything else.

Some did go back in to pull people out. Some stayed out and did what they could to help. You seem to think the entire building should have turned around and ran back in to the building. Some had minor injuries, some chose not to go back in, the fire fighters wouldn't let many back in. So instead of standing there doing nothing they organized into FOD clearance.

You didn't twist anything?

They work in the Pentagon and they are "untrained" God help us all.

So you're looking at a video after the fire had been knocked down somewhat, see people covered in soot, looking like they can't breathe and come to the conclusion that no one went back in?

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Iwinder

Charge into a building and risk becoming a victim, or let firefighters do what they're trained to do and do what you can to assist.

Contrary to your opinion, most people have no training in burning buildings. At the time they didn't know where people were, if the building was going to collapse, or anything else.

Some did go back in to pull people out. Some stayed out and did what they could to help. You seem to think the entire building should have turned around and ran back in to the building. Some had minor injuries, some chose not to go back in, the fire fighters wouldn't let many back in. So instead of standing there doing nothing they organized into FOD clearance.

You didn't twist anything?

They work in the Pentagon and they are "untrained" God help us all.

So you're looking at a video after the fire had been knocked down somewhat, see people covered in soot, looking like they can't breathe and come to the conclusion that no one went back in?

I did not twist a thing, why is it an Oil refinery has its own resources to fight fires and all employees are trained in rescue and escape maneuvers? A total working staff of maybe 600 or so but they all know what to do.
Yet the nerve center for the USA militarily can't or won't do sqauat for fire fighting or rescue operations.

I am at a loss really how to respond to your last couple of posts, The Pentagon had no pan and tilt cameras, they have no search and rescue teams, they have no fire department, they have extremely limited video surveillance, they like a nice clean lawn too.
Time for bed here and probably some nightmares as well.
Regards, Iwinder

a reply to: Iwinder

They had a small firefighting force. But yes, an oil refinery that is at risk of a major fire is certainly the same as the Pentagon. That's a fair comparison.

The Pentagon isn't going to be looking up at planes flying in the area. Their cameras will be pointed towards the area of greatest threat, which was the parking lot and road.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Iwinder

They had a small firefighting force. But yes, an oil refinery that is at risk of a major fire is certainly the same as the Pentagon. That's a fair comparison.

The Pentagon isn't going to be looking up at planes flying in the area. Their cameras will be pointed towards the area of greatest threat, which was the parking lot and road.

That is troubling that one of the largest buildings in the USA that is home to America's defense and offense planners "had a small firefighting force"
www.history.com...

Hard to imagine since it is 6.6 million square feet in size, we are talking massive not just large. Christ that is the size of a few towns around here and each and every one of those towns have a fire department.
I will bet now the cameras are pointing up and left and right as I type this but you know the old saying "better late then never"
I do appreciate your reply's to my posts, no doubt your knowledgeable and helpful but I still disagree with you on this mysterious set of events at the Pentagon.

Regards, Iwinder

originally posted by: Iwinder
I will bet now the cameras are pointing up

Again you would be wrong there, just what would be the point of a camera pointing up be? To watch the aircraft taking off and landing from Ronald Reagan Airport? Just have a look at flightradar24 and you will see how many planes there are flying nearby.

a reply to: Iwinder

And why would they need a huge firefighting force? There was a fire unit not far away in the town nearby, as well as the one at the airport if it was bad enough. They only needed a unit to respond to an accident involving a helicopter landing on the pad.

a reply to: Zaphod58

And why would they need a huge firefighting force?

Well last time I heard the firefighters are also trained to do rescue these guys and gals are not a single entity just fighting fires as your above post implies. Yes indeed they can knock down walls and remove rubble to rescue trapped people.

Now I have to fess up here my long deceased Father in law was a deputy fire chief an the stories he told were just wonderful. Both good and bad but the point of this post is let you know that they do a lot more than just hold hoses.

I wonder how many people might have survived that tragic day had there been a Fire & Rescue department stationed in the Pentagon?

There was a fire unit not far away in the town nearby, as well as the one at the airport if it was bad enough.

I gather is was "bad enough all right" I ponder the question how many died that day because there was no immediate search and rescue operation initiated?
6.6 million square feet and nary a trained person it sight, unbelievable in my opinion and I can only hope that I am not alone in the head shaking department regarding this tragic incident.
Regards, Iwinder

a reply to: Iwinder

And in the 60 years prior how many times did they need a large firefighting force? I'm well aware of all firefighters do.

The station nearby was less than five minutes away. There were workers and firefighters both that pulled people out shortly after the impact.

You act like there was no search and rescue going on until the other firefighting units arrived, and there were no firefighters at the Pentagon.

originally posted by: Iwinder
I am not alone in the head shaking department regarding this tragic incident.

Why make up silly stories there should have been a fire fighting team at the Pentagon?

a reply to: Iwinder

That is troubling that one of the largest buildings in the USA that is home to America's defense and offense planners "had a small firefighting force"

I think you over state the importance of the Pentagon in the modern day.

When it was built in WW2 we needed all the offices to be close together.
It's rooms were filled with clerks adding numbers etc.
It was safe from attack from the air and land.

Now it's more of a public conference building with liaison offices.
It is not safe from attack.

Ask yourself who stands guard at all of our military bases?
Military guards or military police.
Pull up to the gate and ask them for a tour.
They will escort you from whence you came.

Who stands guard at the Pentagon?
Rent a cops.
Want a tour at the Pentagon? Fill out the form 14 days in advance.

The question has to be asked here,why would anyone WANT to have a tour inside the Pentagon? Would it not be just as mind-numbingly boring as taking a tour of any random office block?

a reply to: Imagewerx

This was General Pattons office.
This was General Eisenhowers office.
Here is the public briefing room.

originally posted by: samkent
a reply to: Imagewerx

This was General Pattons office.
This was General Eisenhowers office.
Here is the public briefing room.

But just above in your last post you said this.....

I think you over state the importance of the Pentagon in the modern day.

Regards, Iwinder

a reply to: Iwinder

But just above in your last post you said this.....

True.
But how important is a tourist attraction?

originally posted by: samkent
a reply to: Iwinder

But just above in your last post you said this.....

True.
But how important is a tourist attraction?

Plenty important after all the hoopla when it was attacked.
They had better yard maintenance picking up two wings of a supposed air craft than Disney World does mopping up puke and picking up garbage.
If it just a "Tourist Attraction" I can see now why the USA is in a critical financial position at this time. 6.6 million square feet and it is not being used for anything but tourists? Yet is takes two weeks to get a tour hmmmmmmm.

It is either a military installation or it is the largest money loser tourist attraction in the world, I can't be both ways.
Regards, Iwinder

a reply to: Iwinder

Just because it doesn't fit what you think should have happened doesn't make what was going on that day wrong.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Iwinder

Just because it doesn't fit what you think should have happened doesn't make what was going on that day wrong.

You are correct, my belief is nothing should have happened. It should not have been possible at all.

Regards, Iwinder +Star for being responsive and polite.

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: Iwinder
I am not alone in the head shaking department regarding this tragic incident.

Why make up silly stories there should have been a fire fighting team at the Pentagon?

I am not making up anything, thanks for the degrading comment I am saying there should have been a firefighting department based at the Pentagon. If they had one that day perhaps a few dozen or more folks would have survived that day?

Tell me if they had a fire department on site could they have at least saved one person in your opinion?
Regards, Iwinder