The Message - Why Jesus and the Cross? (In Three Posts)

a reply to: Ignatian

www.abovetopsecret.com...

here is the link for discussion

a reply to: OpinionatedB
Hi, it's me, over here from over there. Yes, I see that we do have to a large degree, fundamental differences in the way we approach life. I enjoyed reading your testimony. It rings true to me, what you feel, what you experience in Christ. Your dream was fairly clear in the manner in which one might interpret it. Accepting Gods messages to us is important I think.
However, I do not know that God speaks to us all in the same manner, in the same language, in the same symbolism.

If I may. I was raise Protestant. Though basically my initial immersion in the faith was through one denomination, as I entered adolescence and began expanding my parameters, it was still for the most part oriented towards Jesus, but through different denominations. Though professing belief in the same Savior, there were different ways that were followed in expressing and following these different faiths. This to the adolescent that I was was very confusing. Why was not eating meat on Friday a damning offense to some and not to others. Why was resting on one day right to some and another day to others. And why were they so adamantly set apart from one another.

I finally took some of these adolescent questions to the finest man I knew. In every way he was a man I wanted to emulate. He was, that it mattered, Methodist. He was my YMCA directer, a man who worked 24/7 with and for the youth of his community. After considering my plight as we sat in his office he made an attempt to explain things as he saw them to me.

He said that some people believe in God as exclusive while others believe in God as inclusive. The exclusive are willing to believe that they are forgiven, saved and accepted by God while others who do not match up to the standards of belief and faith as set down by their particular interpretation are doomed. The inclusive believe that God is not so ridged and accepts all who call upon Him, from what ever denomination, angle or position they can muster. I knew which type I wanted to be. I then asked him about Jesus. Just how did Jesus play into all of this.

His answer again was simple. He asked me what was Jesus called in the Bible. The Son of God. He then pointed out that he was also called the Son of Man, and that both of these titles represented two different, though to God, acceptable ways of accepting Jesus.

Jesus as the Son of God represents, he said, God, reaching down to us through the person of Jesus, the Son of God. Those who find God in this way can be saved. Also, though, Jesus, as the Son of Man, represents mans reaching UP to God and those who accept Jesus in THIS way are also saved. In this light, the very confusing manner in which the Son of God had been presented to me, in which manner He was manifest, the trinity the body and all the rest were just, to far from my experiences. The Son of Man however was not. This was a simple uncomplicated approach.

Making a much longer story short, choosing this second look at Jesus, unlike the first approach which sought to lay out exactly how when and where to find God, the second seemed to leave all of those particulars unanswered, leaving them up to me to discover for myself should I choose to follow Jesus as the older Brother, as the One who had gone and done what we all might do should we follow his example. This left me in the dark with Jesus as the light, the the beacon, but it still left me in many ways groping in the darkness for the rest of my truth.. After several weeks of prayer and anguish on whether or not to continue with this decision, a number of those threads in our lives that come together from what we might consider to be out of nowhere(of course we know they do not come from nowhere), all bounced into one another in one of those moments, call those moments what we will. As I opened my heart for an answer, not the first nor the last time, I read a piece of paper that I had read numerous times before which had had no special import until that moment. At the bottom of the paper I read the words. "I said to the man at the gate of the year. Give me a light that I may tread safely into the unknown. And he said to me, go out into the darkness and put your hand into the hand of God and it shall be better than a light and safer than a known way."

Unfortunately for my future relationship most Christians, in sharing with very strong "Jesus Freak" Bible thumping Christians, this story, and other stories of my encounters with God were met with a the simple observation, "ah yes, and this is where the Devil took possession of your soul. Denounce your experiences and join us. Sadly enough Opin, this is true.

Until recently I have been estranged from in depth discussion with devout Christians for most seem to me to be of the ONEWAYONLY variety of Christian. Only recently have I managed to accept that, in my own pursuit of inclusiveness, that these people too have their place in our Kingdom. Even those who reject,,,me. are accepted by God. Hence my bold declarations in that OP of mine. They, those ONEWAYERS no longer threaten me, I have grown past their threats of damnation.

So If you see me now as one of a fundamentally different approach to life then it is now ok with me, you have your love of God to warm you and what more really might I ask. If you can see in an inclusive manner that we are both in the same Kingdom then let's go out and dance some evening when we find ourselves in some future Ballroom of God.

Ok, now I have to get back outside and finish my yard work before this evenings rains come.

Very nice post !

But yet you have done nothing more than come to a realization, one that may or may not lead to anything, and will recede over time, since you have no idea what ACTUALLY HAPPENED that gave you the blessed feeling.

I fear far more deeply for those of you who "believe" they know rather than they know, and have been taught lessons on how to "know" this.

Fact is, if you have never heard these religious stories, you would be able to reach FAR HIGHER levels of blessedness, but this is about as high as you will go, because you as just about everyone else in any religion that thinks they know of the Christ, that this is all some grand plan, and you have red pills or blue pills.

Do not worry though, we know this makes no sense to those who are pre-programmed, but do not fight us too hard when we destroy the veil of SIN as you call it, and reveal your GENESIS story completely and fully in a very short time!!

Already I have gone into churches so shining bright with astonishing levels of "GOD POWER" that the pastors cease to speak, for they inherently know, that which they teach only scrapes the surface, and is actually like focusing a magnifying glass on a speck of sand on the sun......

So limited, but we will not allow them to limit you forever, so carry on with the JOY !!!

And try to be ready for the entire paradigm you believe in, to be as irrelevant as anything could possibly be!,

That is all we can ask.

a reply to: ParasuvO

Thank you for your kind response. Anyway.. its a message i was given through inspiration from God. There is no forcing to it, it just is. Take it or leave it as you will.

Since its my thread and all!

a reply to: OpinionatedB

Amen.

Glory to God.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

I dont have the words to express how happy I am for you, and how happy I am to have a new sister in Christ. As always, God alone is glorified here, as it is Him who called to you. I know that He has big plans for you. May you live knowing that you are blessed as a dwelling place of God.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: OpinionatedB

I dont have the words to express how happy I am for you, and how happy I am to have a new sister in Christ. As always, God alone is glorified here, as it is Him who called to you. I know that He has big plans for you. May you live knowing that you are blessed as a dwelling place of God.

I am so happy as well. The good thing is this, when we step on that other side, all in the presence of God, we will no longer be WarminIndy, BELIEVERpriest and OpinionatedB, we will be known as we are known and ATS will never be remembered but we will know each other and stand before God together. And God will remember the many times we have mentioned Him on ATS. God did say He would remember those who mention Him.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

You've opened my personal flood gates. I am moved.

Glory!

Great testimony, although it wouldn't be enough to convince me. I pray that in all his omniscience, he finds a way to convince me.

Ask Him. He wants you to ask. Hes standing right next to you, waiting. Pray. Say: "Jesus, show me you are real, I want to believe". "Show me how much you love me". These are easily answered prayers. Be humble, lose your ego....and listen. Praying is listening as much as talking.


Sometimes the answer gets yelled in your face, before you even get the question out. Sometimes it takes longer. But I promise you. He WILL answer you.

a reply to: Rtardx

originally posted by: Ignatian
Ask Him. He wants you to ask. Hes standing right next to you, waiting. Pray. Say: "Jesus, show me you are real, I want to believe". "Show me how much you love me". These are easily answered prayers. Be humble, lose your ego....and listen. Praying is listening as much as talking.


Sometimes the answer gets yelled in your face, before you even get the question out. Sometimes it takes longer. But I promise you. He WILL answer you.

a reply to: Rtardx

I've been doing that everday for almost a year, what usually happens as a result is that a certain kid relative of mine inadvertently and unknowingly causes a situation that brings up a scripture. For example, I'll be chilling and then he'll turn the tv on and start messing with the channels, then leave and when i look up there will be some guy on the tv telling me to accept jesus as my savior now and that he wants me or he'll be playing in a closet and ill look in his hands and see he's holding something pertaining to a bible verse. Again, this is a kid who has no comprehension or knowledge of these things yet minor occurrences like this happen every once in a while, But i need more than that.

My faith tradition teaches that God is in us. This is your conscience, your inner voice. God can do anything He wants obviously. But, it is by working THROUGH us, that he most often makes His presence known on earth. We are His hands, His feet, His mouth. Sounds to me like God may be trying to reveal Himself to you through that little kid. Cuz God is in him too.

Not that it couldn't happen, but I doubt you'll feel the earth shake, and a thunderous voice call down from the heavens, announcing that God exists.

God usually comes to us in tiny ways, And in the quiet solitude of our prayer. And he's a sneaky God. He'll pop out from behind a tree saying "Here I AM!!" You see Him, you're amazed, then he pops back behind a tree, sometimes not to be seen again for a long time, if ever. But, you'll keep looking, that's faith.

When Jesus reveals Himself to you, and He will if you ask, your life will never be the same. Jesus has that effect on people.

"Rtardx, you are my beloved son, with whom I am well pleased"

May I ask if you are baptized? This is when God "adopts" you as his Son. His heir. This is when a person is "born again".

a reply to: Rtardx

a reply to: randyvs

I have to say thank you. One of the things I have been enjoying so much is the wonderful praise music! I absolutely love it. I must say at first your band the sound of his voice and all was a bit grating for me, but he has definitely grown on me for some reason, and I have now downloaded onto my mp3 a couple of their songs!

I thank you very much!

a reply to: OpinionatedB

My greatest pleasure. I found them thru another highly
intelligent member here. Her handle is/was Stupid girl.
You might look her up and read some of her offerings.
I fell in internet love with her. ha ha ha

a reply to: randyvs

hahaha. I have had the pleasure of meeting her myself I believe. Yeah.. internet love I can see! She is special.

This is just a general comment, to no one but God - spoken in public for no understandable reason.



I swear, 'As the LORD lives,' In truth, in justice and in righteousness.

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
This is just a general comment, to no one but God - spoken in public for no understandable reason.



I swear, 'As the LORD lives,' In truth, in justice and in righteousness.

B, thank you for showing me your thread about your dream. You truly are blessed!

I thought you might be interested in this, The Bible. You can download the latest version to your computer and get daily devotions, or daily Bible Studies. It's been helping me on my journey thus far. I have it on my computer, my phone, and my Kindle, so I am never without my Bible. I even put a children's version (yes they have a cartoon version for kids), on my daughter's phone. She loves it!

God bless my wonderful new sister!

a reply to: Anyafaj

Thank you very much for the link!

God bless you too!