Credible people say they are there, governments say maybe they are there... or not.

originally posted by: CirqueDeTruth
a reply to: ufosareawesome

Well I guess if your thinking dimension, as way of a stargate. But that isn't what I meant. If the source of UFO's and the occupants some have claimed to be abducted by, are from another dimension, I'm thinking it's still of Earth. Which is why, I believe, when we cracked the atom and started detonating bombs, the UFO flap began. They had to come here, because just perhaps, a nuclear explosion, affects them in their dimension that is still of Earth.

All of which assumes:

1) Other dimensions exist.

REALITY CHECK: We have only scant evidence supporting that other dimensions exist. It's still an open question.

2) Other dimensions are habitable

REALITY CHECK: Most other dimensions which physics theorize will not be places we could exist. The converse is also true, if there were life from one of those other dimensions our universe would be just as inhospitable to them.

3. Travel between other dimensions is possible.

REALITY CHECK: We have NO evidence of that and Reality Check #2 would seem to rule it out.

So the next time someone says "oh but the phenomena could be interdimensional" think of the 3 reality checks above.

All of which makes this idea of interdimensional beings even more fantastic/incredible/outrageous than extraterrestrial beings flying saucers to Earth which itself is pretty incredible in its own right.

After all, we have evidence that organic molecules and water, the building blocks of life are common throughout the universe.

We also know of over 1,000 planets around other stars, know that 80 percent of stars systems in our Galaxy have planets and know that 1 in 5 stars similar to our Sun have a planet in the habitable or "goldilocks zone" of its star. We also know that life started very early on Earth, almost as soon as the planet cooled.

It's really not a question of whether there is other life or other intelligent life in the universe. The big question is what is the density of intelligent civilizations is or to put it another way, how far would we have to travel to get to the next civilization.

One of the biggest arguments against UFOs being extraterrestrial in nature are the huge distances to even the nearest stars.

The density of civilizations would have to be very high or we would have to be incredibly lucky for one to be nearby (nevermind all the stories of different types of creatures which if believed would make Earth seem like some interstellar tourist attraction).

So that is why skepticism of these stories is warranted. I've read most everything credible but I don't really see anything that would indicate an extraterrestrial source for most of the commonly reported UFO phenomena. I suspect the source may be much closer than that and not involve anyone traveling anywhere.

Much hunch is that the answers to the UFO phenomena are probably more likely to be found in neuroscience than astronomy, astrobiology or quantum physics.

originally posted by: JadeStar

Much hunch is that the answers to the UFO phenomena are probably more likely to be found in neuroscience than astronomy, astrobiology or quantum physics.

So you are saying that when more than one person see the same UFO at the same time they are experiancing a spontaneous simultaneous "brain fart"?

As one who has experienced the phenomena on multiple occasions, I can unequivocally state that there is a phase you will have to go through where you will experience PTSD due to the experience. Once you accept it for whatever it is, you will never view things the way you did before. I would love to witness more, but the odds are against me.

I am currently helping a friend through the initial phases of acceptance after he witnessed things on two separate occasions this past week. He witnessed a high flying object that stopped and performed irregular manoeuvrings and then saw an object rapidly ascend from the treeline up and away at a speed he could only describe as a blur about one minute after the high altitude object disappeared. A few days later he witnessed a swarm of 25 to 30 orbs for a few minutes that circled around each other and then went off in separate paths and then blinked out of view. He is severely conflicted trying to reconcile his Christian fundamentalist upbringing with what he has witnessed. He's now crossed over into the camp of being a knower and accepts the reality of these things.

I fully understand why the government keeps a lid on this subject for all of the reasons listed in the prior posts. Most people cannot handle this subject as it will rock your worldview really hard until you accept it. The bantering that goes on between us on these threads on this subject would be magnified a billion fold if disclosure were to occur. As most individuals and society as a whole are not ready for the truth. Yes, I love to challenge deniers with the subject, but that's just my personality.

originally posted by: zatara

originally posted by: JadeStar

Much hunch is that the answers to the UFO phenomena are probably more likely to be found in neuroscience than astronomy, astrobiology or quantum physics.

So you are saying that when more than one person see the same UFO at the same time they are experiancing a spontaneous simultaneous "brain fart"?

No, in many of those cases it's just misidentification of something earthly.

There are however PLENTY of UFO reports where one person sees something and someone standing right next to them does not see it or their camera does not record it, etc.

Those are the cases I suspect may have to do with something in the brain.

Remember, we know more about the surface of the moon than we know about the fine details of the workings of the human brain. We're just beginning to explore that so yes, I think people who are serious about getting real answers to why UFOs are seen and reported by people should be open minded to the possibility that the answer to a fair amount of reports could be lay in the human mind and how our environment interacts with it under special circumstances.

There have been lab experiments using electrical stimulation which have induced feelings similar to what many abductees report.

Thank you, Jade Star. I think I understand know.

If ONE person sees a flying saucer, you "suspect it may have to do with something in the brain".

But if TWO people see a flying saucer, negating your first theory, well then, it's because "in many of those cases it's just mis-identification of something earthly."

That settles that.

originally posted by: zatara

originally posted by: JadeStar

Much hunch is that the answers to the UFO phenomena are probably more likely to be found in neuroscience than astronomy, astrobiology or quantum physics.

So you are saying that when more than one person see the same UFO at the same time they are experiancing a spontaneous simultaneous "brain fart"?

Group hallucinations are actually incredibly common, whether we're talking about some christian pray session or some 'Timothy Leary' type situation.

I'm not tying to say UFO sightings where multiple people witness it are totally irrelevant. I just personally would like to get to the bottom of this phenomena with logic that's based on scientific based evidence, rather than religious faith based acceptance.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

originally posted by: zatara

originally posted by: JadeStar

Much hunch is that the answers to the UFO phenomena are probably more likely to be found in neuroscience than astronomy, astrobiology or quantum physics.

So you are saying that when more than one person see the same UFO at the same time they are experiancing a spontaneous simultaneous "brain fart"?

Group hallucinations are actually incredibly common, whether we're talking about some christian pray session or some 'Timothy Leary' type situation.

I'm not tying to say UFO sightings where multiple people witness it are totally irrelevant. I just personally would like to get to the bottom of this phenomena with logic that's based on scientific based evidence, rather than religious faith based acceptance.

I agree. The only way to get to the core of the phenomena is to weed out natural phenomena, weather, hallucinations, misidentified aircraft, spacecraft, drones/RC models, satellites, stars, planets, CGIs, equipment malfunction, hoaxes and frauds.

Once UFOlogy can do that filtration process then whatever is left over will be a lot more interesting.

But in order to seriously do that UFOlogy has to get away from the "I saw something I couldn't explain therefore it is aliens." mindset and back to the kind of scientific detective work pioneered by people like James McDonald, J Allen Hynek, Jacques Vallee, Harley Rutledge, Peter Sturrock, James Oberg, etc.

a reply to: JadeStar

LOL. I must of pee'd in your wheaties at some point! Heh?

I'm of the opinion/suspicion that dimensions DO exist (likely), that more intelligence beings than just ourselves share this bio-sphere (probably), and that certain people (likely with differences in their neuro-biology) are more apt to see and experience the paranormal. Whether that be UFOs, abduction, sleep paralysis, ghost phenomenon, psychic ability. Whatever. Some people are wired for it, others are not.

It's scary to consider that the phenomenon has a closer correlation to us and what we do to our Earth. But I have a deep deep seated suspicion it does. Which is why non-disclosure is so very important.

That's my opinion, and I could be wrong. I'm wrong all the time. But, I believe we are not alone, I just don't think their origin is across the galaxy. I could very well be wrong in that too.

After all, we are peering though telescopes that tell us where the Goldilocks planets of other solar systems are, and preparing to travel to Mars and talks of to Venus. Who knows. A civilization a couple million years ahead of us, could very well have done the same and already mastered deep space travel.

"anything we can do, they can do better"...

CdT

originally posted by: CirqueDeTruth
a reply to: JadeStar

LOL. I must of pee'd in your wheaties at some point! Heh?

I'm of the opinion/suspicion that dimensions DO exist (likely) that more intelligence beings than just ourselves share this bio-sphere (probably), and that certain people (likely with differences in their neuro-biology) are more apt to see and experience the paranormal. Whether that be UFOs, abduction, sleep paralysis, ghost phenomenon, psychic ability. Whatever. Some people are wired for it, others are not.

Some people believe fanciful ideas for whatever reason.

Others like me require good hard evidence for scientific reasons.

The universe does not have to conform to our imaginings so using a time tested process to learn the truth about the universe will always be more valuable than simply dreaming things up or latching on to others dreams out of a need to believe.

a reply to: CirqueDeTruth

Nail, meet Hammer.

originally posted by: JadeStar

I agree. The only way to get to the core of the phenomena is to weed out natural phenomena, weather, hallucinations, misidentified aircraft, spacecraft, drones/RC models, satellites, stars, planets, CGIs, equipment malfunction, hoaxes and frauds.

Once UFOlogy can do that filtration process then whatever is left over will be a lot more interesting.

You are absolutely right, there are many witnes accounts and a lot of them are just not the real thing because of various reasons. But that doesn't mean it is all BS. If only 0,000001% of all the sightings and/or experiances are real the beings with their technology can not be denied.

I am not complete familiar with the work of Jacques Vallee and only know he is a serious and respected researcher from 'day one'. If I am right his latest conclusion is that these beings with their harware originate from an other dimension. As was mentioned earlier it seems impossible for something to materialise from one dimension into an other. But hey,... what do we know about the properties and interactions between other dimensions.
I find it also hard to imagine that our best scientist can not make heads or tail from captured alien technology. I am sure that after years of study these scientist will have a pretty good idea about what is going on with alien technology. Maybe they do not have the equipment and materials to reproduce that same technology but will sooner or later come close.

Not understanding the physics behind a technological device doesn't mean it can not be made. I mean... first there was the lightbulb and later scientist were able to explain the science behind it

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
I know this opinion would not be a popular one with people here. But I'm just so sick of hearing about all these witness accounts with out any kind of evidence to back it up. It just brings me to the conclusion that any intelligent life out there really has no interest in visiting us and people are in fact just dreaming this stuff up.

But hopefully someone will prove me wrong eventually and we will see some proof that alien life is visiting us. I won't hold my breath though!!!

I agree 100%. Like Jill Tarter said, if someone comes to you saying that UFOs are proof of alien visitation but have nothing better than a story or some photos or video, demand better evidence.

What evidence do you require if witness observations and photos and videos are insufficient?

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: zatara

originally posted by: JadeStar

Much hunch is that the answers to the UFO phenomena are probably more likely to be found in neuroscience than astronomy, astrobiology or quantum physics.

So you are saying that when more than one person see the same UFO at the same time they are experiancing a spontaneous simultaneous "brain fart"?

No, in many of those cases it's just misidentification of something earthly.

There are however PLENTY of UFO reports where one person sees something and someone standing right next to them does not see it or their camera does not record it, etc.

Those are the cases I suspect may have to do with something in the brain.

Remember, we know more about the surface of the moon than we know about the fine details of the workings of the human brain. We're just beginning to explore that so yes, I think people who are serious about getting real answers to why UFOs are seen and reported by people should be open minded to the possibility that the answer to a fair amount of reports could be lay in the human mind and how our environment interacts with it under special circumstances.

There have been lab experiments using electrical stimulation which have induced feelings similar to what many abductees report.

I'm not sure I follow your point. Are you attributing that the majority of experiences are psycho-nuero stimulations and products of unknown bio chemistry?

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
I want so much for it to be true. If I could have any wish come true before I died it would be to know that there are in fact beings not from this world that are visiting our world.

I'm a lifelong abductee, I can promise you they're real. I can't prove it though.

a reply to: zatara

they would be perceived as a threat. humanity would be united, people would see a possibility of advancement, be it technological, spiritual or both.

and those in power wouldn't be able to stop it, and would loose their control over humanity. and they have enough trouble keeping it as it is, with us all divided.

they won't let us unite until it fits their agenda, and it will fit their agenda when they can control the result. so, when they'll start speaking about true unification of the world, you can be certain they're planning to kill most of us.

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: zatara

originally posted by: JadeStar

Much hunch is that the answers to the UFO phenomena are probably more likely to be found in neuroscience than astronomy, astrobiology or quantum physics.

So you are saying that when more than one person see the same UFO at the same time they are experiancing a spontaneous simultaneous "brain fart"?

No, in many of those cases it's just misidentification of something earthly.

There are however PLENTY of UFO reports where one person sees something and someone standing right next to them does not see it or their camera does not record it, etc.

Those are the cases I suspect may have to do with something in the brain.

Remember, we know more about the surface of the moon than we know about the fine details of the workings of the human brain. We're just beginning to explore that so yes, I think people who are serious about getting real answers to why UFOs are seen and reported by people should be open minded to the possibility that the answer to a fair amount of reports could be lay in the human mind and how our environment interacts with it under special circumstances.

There have been lab experiments using electrical stimulation which have induced feelings similar to what many abductees report.

and we know much more about the fine details of the workings of the human brain than we know about the true nature of our universe on both macroscopic and microscopic/subatomic level. i would compare our knowledge about different dimensions to the knowledge of medieval people about current era supercomputers. scientists are trying to understand something that is beyond their levels of understanding, because they're, for the most part at least, far too close-minded.

so all your reality checks from your previous post are in reality worth nothing.

originally posted by: zatara

originally posted by: JadeStar

I agree. The only way to get to the core of the phenomena is to weed out natural phenomena, weather, hallucinations, misidentified aircraft, spacecraft, drones/RC models, satellites, stars, planets, CGIs, equipment malfunction, hoaxes and frauds.

Once UFOlogy can do that filtration process then whatever is left over will be a lot more interesting.

You are absolutely right, there are many witnes accounts and a lot of them are just not the real thing because of various reasons. But that doesn't mean it is all BS. If only 0,000001% of all the sightings and/or experiances are real the beings with their technology can not be denied.

I am not complete familiar with the work of Jacques Vallee and only know he is a serious and respected researcher from 'day one'. If I am right his latest conclusion is that these beings with their harware originate from an other dimension. As was mentioned earlier it seems impossible for something to materialise from one dimension into an other. But hey,... what do we know about the properties and interactions between other dimensions.
I find it also hard to imagine that our best scientist can not make heads or tail from captured alien technology. I am sure that after years of study these scientist will have a pretty good idea about what is going on with alien technology. Maybe they do not have the equipment and materials to reproduce that same technology but will sooner or later come close.

Not understanding the physics behind a technological device doesn't mean it can not be made. I mean... first there was the lightbulb and later scientist were able to explain the science behind it

epic fail in reasoning.
give a medieval people - or perhaps even a monkey, no difference - a current era supercomputer, and tell them to understand it, or at least copy it. there's no way it won't take ages, in best case scenario.

you can't understand, nor even reproduce, something that is based on principles being in contradiction with your own understanding of the world you live in. and unless given external help - being a complete explanation, not some working example that will leave you as baffled as magic - there's a limit on how fast you can figure it all out on your own (ages, at least).

do i think the military and governments are secretly reverse engineering alien technology? sure.
do they have some results? sure. but what are amazing results for them, is just scratching the surface like a monkey from alien's point of view.

if we would be anywhere near unlocking all the secrets of alien technology that the military has captured, we would have an all out war with aliens already - or a public disclosure that the governments wouldn't be able to prevent, in case of benevolent aliens.

a reply to: jedi_hamster

I think you are underestimating our abillity to investigate and apply. Just look what we achieved in the technology department the last 100 years. Nothing wrong in that department.

originally posted by: zatara
a reply to: jedi_hamster

I think you are underestimating our abillity to investigate and apply. Just look what we achieved in the technology department the last 100 years. Nothing wrong in that department.

we're still burning oil and you say 'nothing wrong in that department'?
you gotta be kidding.

sure, one can argue that there's huge progress, but it's far from what we could achieve - and what the military probably did, but it's kept secret from public. example? volkswagen futura - nice concept car, i read about it in one technical magazine back in 1989. i also remember reading that it was running on hydrogen. try finding any info about futura right now on the web - there's very little available, and the use of hydrogen is never mentioned. supressing new technology, that's what it's called.

and whatever the military did achieve, which is - as one lockheed folk has pointed out - light years ahead of public knowledge, i would still bet it's many more light years behind alien technology.

people like to be proud, but imagine, what if some alien race had the technology to travel amongst the stars since thousands of years? sure, research tends to take huge leaps from time to time, but there's probably still such a gap in the level of understanding the universe that it would take ages at least to get even close.

don't get me wrong, we can understand it all within a year or less - if being guided. on our own, well. transistors, processors, all that made the modern tech world possible, was created thanks to reverse engineering of the alien technology. more than 50 years later and what do we have? man on the moon? a probe on a comet? facebook? sure, we've created much more, but how many problems did we solve - and how many more did we create in the process?

and how does it compare to that alien technology that the military tries so hard to reverse engineer? even if they're 1000 years ahead from public sector, considering what we 'achieved' in the last 100 years, i would say they're very, very far behind aliens.

and without that scratching alien stuff like a monkey, we probably wouldn't even have facebook yet.