Inside Isis: The first Western journalist ever to be given access to the 'Islamic State' has just

originally posted by: MysterX
a reply to: Freeborn

And surely you can't blame the US / UK or anyone other than IS for the indiscriminate slaughter of Muslim and Christian civilians who don't adhere to their particularly vile and barbaric brand of Islamic fundamentalism?

They and they alone are responsible for their actions.

Alone?

Don't those signing the cheques bear at least some responsibility?

I'm still unsure if ISIS or whatever the West prefers to call them today are actually any kind of threat at all, i have a sneaking suspicion they are a deliberate creation that i can't shake. Even if they are exactly what they are purported to be, is it really any surprise, after the years of desolation, death and destruction the West has wreaked in their part of the world?

I don't think so...in fact, i seriously doubt that we ourselves would not be doing the same thing, if our homelands and lives had been ravaged to the degree the ME has been over the last 15 years or so.

^ this exactly 100% nails it, isis only popped up as an international name when we started to pull out from iraq and afghan, probably because we no longer fear al qaeda, eaven forbid

we needed a new enemy and they fit the bill, give them a new name and away we go to repeat the process again.

we paid these guys to fight assad for us, now they have alot of good weapons, where are they getting all this american equipment?

a reply to: MysterX

Funnily enough a couple of years ago its exactly what British Generals proposed for overthrowing Assad. Train a massive guerrilla army to do it for you.

Total coincidence thats pretty much whats happened now. WEIRD.

a reply to: muckleduck

I firmly believe that UK / US involvement in recent Middle East affairs has been by and large well intentioned.
Yes, we've been lied to and 'we've' made some fundamental errors of judgement.

The policy makers have consistently and arrogantly failed to recognise that what is right for 'us' is not necessarily right for other countries / cultures.

'We' have fallen for the myth that the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

And 'we' failed to recognise and deal with the fact the military complex and it suppliers have enormous influence and may have an agenda of their own.

But none of that goes to excuse the barbarity of IS.
They and they alone are responsible for their actions.....and we have a moral duty to bring them to justice.

we wouldnt of invaded iraq if saddam wasnt swapping his oil for gold.

where were the wmds? none to be found, the only ones he had access to were the ones america sold to him decades earlier!

there was no well intentions when we went there, we had 1 goal, remove saddam and replace him with the governmentwe see today.

sure does explain all those halliburton civlian employees in iraq and afghanistan at the time.

my neighbour spent most of his time protecting poppy farmers during his tours of afghanistan.

now that we invaded afghan heroin is pure on our streets, we need that for our medicines aswell.

the british empire was built on opium , the american empire built on oil.

can you see what may have influenced us to invade?

u can tell by how our governments treat us that they have little to no care for anyone other than themselves and their posh mates.

these people believe in eugenics, they rape children in our own country which there is a huge thing going on right now in the uk, even including the queen as part of a pedo ring, so no i will never follow these cretins on anything they say.

originally posted by: Dabrazzo
a reply to: MysterX

Funnily enough a couple of years ago its exactly what British Generals proposed for overthrowing Assad. Train a massive guerrilla army to do it for you.

Total coincidence thats pretty much whats happened now. WEIRD.

ye kinda like how coincidental that an operation on 7/7 exactly matched the events that happened that day, do these people not even try to cover themselves?

a reply to: Freeborn

and we have a moral duty to bring them to justice.

Maybe you should go back to watching X-Factor? I hear simon cowel is like so OMG hot right now.

a reply to: muckleduck

I dont think they do mate no, watch PM question time, they litteraly laugh in our faces about it all. Insanity.

a reply to: MysterX

Alone?

Don't those signing the cheques bear at least some responsibility?

Yes, I guess so.
But they could have just taken the money and ran....like many have before them.

Nobody forced them to chop children's and other civilians heads off simply for believing in a different 'God' or belief system.

IS exploit long standing enmity and hatred between sects / clans / faiths in the region - without that hatred existing in the first place it would have been impossible to exploit it with money and promises of 'revenge' and dominance.

I'm still unsure if ISIS or whatever the West prefers to call them today are actually any kind of threat at all, i have a sneaking suspicion they are a deliberate creation that i can't shake.

I'm sure they're a threat to thousands they've killed.....and the one's they continue to threaten.

Even if they are exactly what they are purported to be, is it really any surprise, after the years of desolation, death and destruction the West has wreaked in their part of the world?

Whilst there's certainly an element of truth in that it is a rather simplistic viewpoint and one that ignores the hundreds of years that preclude the recent 'western' intervention in the region.

Take Iraq, Iraqi's have killed far more Iraqi's in their sectarian bombings etc than we ever have...but I guess you think that's all 'our' fault?

I don't think so...in fact, i seriously doubt that we ourselves would not be doing the same thing, if our homelands and lives had been ravaged to the degree the ME has been over the last 15 years or so.

Sorry, I wouldn't be chopping little girls heads off just because she was a different brand of the same faith as me or crucifying hundreds for the same reason....maybe some would, hopefully we'll never find out.

originally posted by: Dabrazzo
a reply to: Freeborn

and we have a moral duty to bring them to justice.

Maybe you should go back to watching X-Factor? I hear simon cowel is like so OMG hot right now.

a reply to: muckleduck

I dont think they do mate no, watch PM question time, they litteraly laugh in our faces about it all. Insanity.

these people in power dont represent anyone in the uk, they are only there to serve themselves, i couldnt run for governmen because my parents dont have millions and i didnt study at some posh university in englnd so i wouldnt be elidgible.

we need a new churchill.

originally posted by: muckleduck

originally posted by: Dabrazzo
a reply to: Freeborn

and we have a moral duty to bring them to justice.

Maybe you should go back to watching X-Factor? I hear simon cowel is like so OMG hot right now.

a reply to: muckleduck

I dont think they do mate no, watch PM question time, they litteraly laugh in our faces about it all. Insanity.

these people in power dont represent anyone in the uk, they are only there to serve themselves, i couldnt run for governmen because my parents dont have millions and i didnt study at some posh university in englnd so i wouldnt be elidgible.

we need a new churchill.

also the police images from ferguson are very poignant, u dont point loaded weapons at unarmed protestors unless u are prepared to fire on them.

how many americans are in jail for minor things like bieng caught with possesion of a joints worth of weed , caught 3 times on the 3 strike rule and u get life for it? lol

id rather not live there if thats wat freedom is

a reply to: muckleduck

now that we invaded afghan heroin is pure on our streets, we need that for our medicines aswell.

Hmmm...the sickly sweet stench of rotting innocence, bubbling H and Trillions in Lithium deposits...ain't life grand.

originally posted by: MysterX
a reply to: muckleduck

now that we invaded afghan heroin is pure on our streets, we need that for our medicines aswell.

Hmmm...the sickly sweet stench of rotting innocence, bubbling H and Trillions in Lithium deposits...ain't life grand.

werent the minerals sold off to the chinese?

takes a trillion off that 17 trililion in debt that america has though eh

a reply to: Freeborn

Take Iraq, Iraqi's have killed far more Iraqi's in their sectarian bombings etc than we ever have...but I guess you think that's all 'our' fault?

Well...actually...since we the British stuck our noses into Mesopotamia after WW1 and up until 1933 when WE created Iraq as a country, and had major influence there until the coup in 1958 (or 1953? Can't remember exactly)...i'd say a lot of what went on in that country is partly our responsibility, yes.

a reply to: muckleduck

Just because its Called the federal reserve does not mean its a part of the government. Its intentionally mis labelled.

a reply to: Dabrazzo

Never watched X-Factor or any of that sort of drivel in my life - just because I have a different viewpoint to you do not think for one minute I am uniformed or a mindless idiot.


a reply to: muckleduck

Yes, we were sold a lie about the reasons for invading Iraq - and Blair should be tried for it.
He should at least been open and honest with his reasoning.

But I do believe Saddam Hussein was an evil dictator and he should have been removed from power.

Where we screwed up massively was our serial mismanagement of the country after he had been toppled.
It was a failure of epic proportions that allowed deep rooted hatreds to come to the surface, boil, fester and erupt.

The sad thing is 'we' don't appear to have learnt 'our' lessons.

As for your comments about the contempt our politicians have for us and the pedo rings - you're preaching to a long time convert - but that's not the topic under discussion and belongs in another thread, there are plenty of them about.

what currency does it produce and who for?

where is the fed reserve located?

its no secret that america funded the nazis, didnt g.w senior almost get charged for aiding the germans?


your grandparents tax dollars were funding the war against europe and the extermination of ethnic minorities.

quaint.

a reply to: Freeborn

You're OK Freeborn, and thanks for making the distinction between 'our' choices and 'theirs'..it's appreciated as is your level headed approach.

Cheers.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: Dabrazzo

Never watched X-Factor or any of that sort of drivel in my life - just because I have a different viewpoint to you do not think for one minute I am uniformed or a mindless idiot.


a reply to: muckleduck

Yes, we were sold a lie about the reasons for invading Iraq - and Blair should be tried for it.
He should at least been open and honest with his reasoning.

But I do believe Saddam Hussein was an evil dictator and he should have been removed from power.

Where we screwed up massively was our serial mismanagement of the country after he had been toppled.
It was a failure of epic proportions that allowed deep rooted hatreds to come to the surface, boil, fester and erupt.

The sad thing is 'we' don't appear to have learnt 'our' lessons.

As for your comments about the contempt our politicians have for us and the pedo rings - you're preaching to a long time convert - but that's not the topic under discussion and belongs in another thread, there are plenty of them about.

u are right that that is for a different thread so i will leave it at that on that topic but i just thought id add it for context.

we put saddam in power in the first place, most iraqsi will argue that iraq was much more stable under his reign, only when he started trading in gold instead of dollars did his problems begin.

tony blair is the peace envoy to the middle east now, and obama a nobel peace prize, i feel like im living in some sort of nightmare lol

a reply to: muckleduck

we put saddam in power in the first place,

Maybe so, that doesn't mean we had to help him stay in power considering his killing of thousands of Kurds and abuses of civil liberties etc.

Strange that isn't it - people complain about our governments actions etc - and rightly so - yet many of the same now seem perfectly willing to accept and condone Saddam's extremes against his own people.

He was an evil dictator and deserved what he got - the Iraqi people didn't deserve what they got afterwards.....but those hatreds were long and deep rooted - maybe 'our' incompetence and arrogance allowed those hatreds to breed, but they aren't 'our' fault they existed.

most iraqsi will argue that iraq was much more stable under his reign,

Guess all those thousands he gassed didn't quite see it that way nor did the thousands who got the knock on the door during the night off his secret police and were never seen again would see it that way too.

....only when he started trading in gold instead of dollars did his problems begin.

True....if you mean his problems with 'the west'.
He had plenty of problems domestically and within the region.

tony blair is the peace envoy to the middle east now, and obama a nobel peace prize, i feel like im living in some sort of nightmare lol

Yeah, the double standards and hypocrisy have no bounds.

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
a reply to: grey580

Sounds more like this journalist is somewhat of a "sympathizer" to their cause and is being allowed this opportunity in order to write some propaganda on their behalf. IS is not going to do much of anything. They have already proven to not have the ability to truly fight a war, and are seemingly only capable of striking fear in unarmed communities around them.

These guys will be the next big nothings.....just like Al-Q.

If you think painting a giant (X) on them from the western perspective "sympathetic" to their cause, then okay, o.0

IS and others like them are always self destructive from the get-go, they want world powers to recognize their might even if they don't have any, so they want to look big and bad, and the only response they are going to illicit from this is smart bombs being sent up their ass, then sure, let them boast their propaganda, because it isn't helping them any...

A truly powerful organization will give everyone the impression they are non-violent and have benevolent intentions, like say, a massive Catholic church with economic interest throughout the world, which then with their tentacles spread over and across the world they may shape things with their influence to their own liking. Thats a dangerous organization, not one that claims to be dangerous.