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The Wearable Car? Starting of "mechs"?

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posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 09:05 AM
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Although with legs it would have serious weak points, achilles heel...literally. It would have to be made out of some very very very tough but light weight alloys. Admantanium would work. If they could make it. lol


Its quite simple really. Carbon Nanotubes, 100 times stronger then steel at 1/6th the weight. It can conduct electricity, and heat. They can be made magnetic as well. Also the reverse is true. Depending on the composition you can make CNTs and insulator of electriciy and heat as well as make it non-magnetic. It all depends on the molecular structure. Adamantium is nothing compared to this stuff




posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 09:08 AM
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Originally posted by Kriskaos
Well if they every devolp mechs they will most likely be equiped with ECM ( electronic countermeasure) and ECCM systems. Also they could be mounted with a Phalanx type system to shoot down missles.


They would also have to develope visual stealth as well because a BIG mech can be spotted by visual, and can be shot down using old fashioned aim at the most vulnerable point, target manually then fire. Seems to work for the Iraqi insurgents.



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 09:20 AM
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Originally posted by sardion2000

Its quite simple really. Carbon Nanotubes, 100 times stronger then steel at 1/6th the weight. It can conduct electricity, and heat. They can be made magnetic as well. Also the reverse is true. Depending on the composition you can make CNTs and insulator of electriciy and heat as well as make it non-magnetic. It all depends on the molecular structure. Adamantium is nothing compared to this stuff


And you can make a tank with nono-tubule treads that can do everything a mech can, better, and with a lower profile. Cheaper, too, so you can have mroe of them.

Mechs are only going to be superior weapons if we find a planet made of stairs that are at an extremely high angle. And even then helicopters with kill them


Also, you people are wrong saying a giant insect would rule the world. An insect CANNOT get larger. They don't scale up linearly. Sur,e if we had like 10 times the oxygen we do now, they could get bigger and better. But so would humans. And we have hands



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 09:59 AM
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I am not talking about Mechs taking the role of Tanks. They will compliment each other. Tanks cannot clear out buildings, they can destroy them yes but not clear them with minimal damage. A 10-12 foot mech will work wonders, and be intimidating as hell. What would you do, if say you were holed up in a building of strategic importance and they stormed it with say 4 or 5 of these things? Human soldiers augmented with Advanced Exo-Skeletal Armor would most of the time just end up taking a bunch of prisoners, because no one in thier right mind would go up against somthing like that. Small arms will be usless. RPGs will have a hard time hitting somthing that can outrun a cheetah, and yes it is possible just not yet. If 10-12 feet is too big I'm sure they will develop form fitting Powered Armor for regular troops as well. What is the hieght profile of a tank? Is it more then 10 ft? if so then the height profile issue is kinda moot.



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 10:20 AM
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What about like in mechwarrior Elemental Suits. Powered armor suits. I think that is more likely to be made.

]

[edit on 15-12-2004 by Kriskaos]



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 10:23 AM
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Originally posted by sardion2000
I am not talking about Mechs taking the role of Tanks. They will compliment each other. Tanks cannot clear out buildings, they can destroy them yes but not clear them with minimal damage. A 10-12 foot mech will work wonders, and be intimidating as hell. What would you do, if say you were holed up in a building of strategic importance and they stormed it with say 4 or 5 of these things? Human soldiers augmented with Advanced Exo-Skeletal Armor would most of the time just end up taking a bunch of prisoners, because no one in thier right mind would go up against somthing like that. Small arms will be usless. RPGs will have a hard time hitting somthing that can outrun a cheetah, and yes it is possible just not yet. If 10-12 feet is too big I'm sure they will develop form fitting Powered Armor for regular troops as well. What is the hieght profile of a tank? Is it more then 10 ft? if so then the height profile issue is kinda moot.



Oh sorry, I thought you were still talking about multi-story mechs.

Anyway, such an advantage would only last for a while, until the enemy develops his own armored troops. You've also got to look at stability. The Mech has to stay upright on two relatively small legs, as opposed to nice wide treads. IMO, any sort of mech that is significantly larger than a human (in the 10-12 foot range) really doesn't give it any advantage compared to what you could also spend your money on. Powered armor is the way to go in that respect. Once you've got a buy holding a joystick instead of actually using his arms and legs, then any advantage of being human-shaped sorta goes poof.

Not to mention weight. These mech/armored troops are likely not going to be able to go into the higher levels of buildings if they have respectable armor and firepower, unless we for some reason strenghten buildings for such an occurence.



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 10:53 AM
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Well if it made of CNTs then weight is not a consideration. You still have the "Steel and Concrete" mindset where you think more mass = more weight but with CNTs this is not really the case. Remember they are 1/6th the weigh of steel.

nanodiamond.info...

EDIT: Kriskaos, can you please put up a smaller version of the pic, its making the forum look all funny and hard to read.

[edit on 15-12-2004 by sardion2000]



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 11:38 AM
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as for profile I would say a 10-15 foot tall mech would really be not that much taller then a tank but its side profile would be infently smaller.. Not to mention its not a solid mass of metal if they shoot for the legs and they are moving there are gaps the rounds can go though besides the legs them selfs... Mech's will only be usefull in city combat... Out in the open its not very usefull. Sence on one seem to be following my link will stip out bits that I think where cool..

"We are not talking about a person that puts on armor we are talking about a 16 foot tall around 8 foot wide and 4 foot deep. Does not have to look like the one in the Pic's the arms would have to be longer so it could get up if it falls down easyer. "

"I know your thinking its too tall and would stand out but you also have to think it can lay down or kneel or what ever a man can do. so really it could hide behind 1 story buildings or lay down behind a line of cars and use them for cover. "

"This is not a replacement for tank or anything like that it would be made light around 5-25 tons its only to supplement ground forces in urban combat. Sence it's armor is modular you could make it lighter or more armored depending on the mission."

"The armor would be modular and easily replace able along with all extremities could easily be popped off and replaced if damaged. "

"Now your thinking well it would be easy pickings for rpg's and rocket fire."

"With the development of metal storm and the arena Russian system to stop incoming missiles that would take care of most threats then if you added in the new electron armor that the British are developing which also protects against small arms fire. The armor under the electron plates would be all composite using nano tube's or diamond coated wires or if it ever gets developed carbon ring armor enough of it to stop 20mm if not 30mm kinetic rounds."

arena link
www.abovetopsecret.com...
electron armor link
www.wired.com...
advanced composite armor link
www.dcr.net...

"Now as for a power plant I was thinking ether a fuel cell sense its byproduct is O2 and water. If your units could make there own water in the battle field you would have to truck in less. If that never works out then you would have to use a small turbine motor to power it."

"Now for moving the arms and legs I would say use Newtral "shape memory alloy" one tread the size of a human hair can lift 1kg but is very high heat maker and energy hog along with a slow uncontract time."

www.cs.ualberta.ca...

"Or you could use Air muscle to power it a 3 inch diameter one can pull down a brick wall its weight to power ratio is around 16 to 1 normal hydraulics is only 4 to 1. I think this is the best one for the time being tell more advanced systems come along. It is also a low pressure system."

www.shadow.org.uk...-Properties-41681

"Now for the control system I would have to say a mental link with the driver to the unit is a must. Longer training times but would make it far more agile could you see one of these walking around just like a normal guy would ducking behind cover or hugging up against walls or even climbing up the sides of heavier buildings? Of course it would have to be computer assisted with aiming its weapon he just lines up the cross hairs and the computer figures out wind/range/elevation so when he pulls the trigger or thinks about pulling the trigger it hits its mark. Yes the current version of this takes implanting into the skull but they are working on ones that would fit on a helmet and do the same thing. Also the pilots suit would also need to give him feed back by letting him know when part of his unit was touching something else. "

www.cbc.ca..."



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 12:27 PM
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Originally posted by _BLiND_

I mean a tank cannot clear buildings, or get over tough obsticles, some obstactles yes but a "walker" could go into buildings, traverse tougher terrain then a tank. (if they could jump).

The size I invision at max it would be 12 ft tall. Legs have reversed joints so it can lower itself to 10 ft.

Although with legs it would have serious weak points, achilles heel...literally.


I agree wheeled or tracked machines only have access to a small percent of the planet about 25% I think. Both wheel/tracks and legs have their own advantages.

Legs are much better for negotiating rough terrain we just have to look at nature to see this, Walking mechanism are more complex though. Treads on the other hand are often heavier hardware but more stable.

But we have to remember we only just started to create robotic legs that work its very new compared to how long we have been using the wheel.



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 12:35 PM
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The steering for one of these mech could be virtual. Have the operator in a suit that detects movement and mimiks the drivers movement. It would look funny to see a dancing mech



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 04:12 PM
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What you're all forgetting is that if the Mech has 1/6 the current weight, a tank will also have 1/6 the current weight. Which means it either gets more armor, or gets to be smaller.

Even a light Mech will get stuck in the mud more than an equal-weight tank. A tank spreads it's weight over a larger surface area, a mech has it on relatively small feet.

As for jumping, if you can get a mech to jump, you can get a tank to jump. As for entering buildings, unless the buildings are designed to have a 15 foot, multi-ton metal guy walking around, he's still going to knock the place down.

Let me put it this way- a mech is going to be more complicated than a comparable tank. It's going to have arms and legs and most importantly balance. All these take moving parts. And the more moving parts you have, the more moving parts will fail. It also means a mech is going to cost more.

Mechs are cool, but they are highly impractical. Except for very specific circumstances (in which case they might be produced in very small, custom numbers, and not as main battle weapons).

The main problem people do is they are comparing the mech of 2050 to the weapons of 2004. By 2050, all this technology will be integreated into current designs as well.



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 04:31 PM
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Still think in city fighting Mechs would have the edge over APC/hummer/ even M1A2's to a degree. A Mech could fire around a building where a tank has to drive at least half way out before it can bring its guns on target. That alone would be enough to kill APC's/Hummers As for main battle tank's tank starts to drive to a corner front sticks out Mech fires its anti tank rocket taking out the treads. Then it moves around behind the tank and fire on the back of the tank or top... Remeber its taller then a tank so it will be shooting at the top of it where the armor is weaker.



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 05:58 PM
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Tanks have a role, it's role will probably not going away, and as for tanks jumping? What do you base that assumption on? And what do you base the assumption that a 15 foot mech will weight multiple tons instead of under a ton? Are you just guessing or have you done the nessisary calculations? Have you thought that even Mechs themselves might spawn subtypes? Like a lightly armoured 8-10 ft scouting unit built for speed and agility. A medium one to fight in Urban Battlegrounds, and a Heavy one for longrange bombardment. Tanks are not equipped to jump, and are generally more massive and require multiple crew members to operate. A small mech would require 1 person to operate, thats it. Remember the key factor is agility here, and as for your assumption that a mech will wear out faster then a tank because of more moving parts? Well there is a way to make artificial muscles using Carbon Nantubes. Here are some link(s) I googled up that are pertinent to the discussion. I might add more in a bit.

news.bbc.co.uk...



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 06:15 PM
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I know this is just a game picture by i might give a good ideal of the size people seem to be talking about.

You can see its size compared to a tank and troops


Heres a picture of it compared to a classic size mech

xboxmedia.ign.com... t-2-lone-wolf-

I think I could see somrthing like that on the battlefield in 50 yrs. More of a heavy armoured suit then a mech.



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 06:18 PM
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my pics didnt work


This one works though




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