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Corso claims he marched right past a startled secretary and into the office of the CIA director of covert operations, Frank "Wiesner" (sic), at CIA headquarters in "Langley, Virginia," and told him off. As indicated above, this must have been "a couple of days" after the initial meeting with Gen. Trudeau, in early May 1961. Keep this date in mind as you read on, as it explodes Corso's story as a tissue of lies. Corso claims he warned "Wiesner" that he would start carrying a gun and if he ever found a CIA man following him again, the agent's body would later be found with bullet holes in his head. Later in 1961, "Wiesner" himself was found dead by hanging in a London hotel room, the victim of suicide, Corso claims. Better not tangle with that Corso, no telling what might happen!
The Roswell story like most of the AlienUFO history is filled with information AND misinformation to such a degree it would take Sherlock Holmes, Colombo, and Kojak to solve this case with any degree of certainty—
originally posted by: Scdfa
I'm sorry that Roswell broke your heart, Gut. But that's no excuse for you to call her a slut full of holes. You have be an adult about the break-up and realize that the two of you were just not right for each other. I don't know if the passion waned, it's really none of my business. But I do know a woman is likely to leave a guy who doesn't understand her, or a guy who doesn't seem to have a clue as to what she's really about. Some women leave a guy who can't keep up with them on an intellectual level.
Better to have loved and lost, I guess.
An appropriate thread title, however.
originally posted by: cuckooold
...At Roswell, why not convince some people they have seen an alien craft, and have others see the crash of the Mogul balloon? That way, the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing, and vice versa. So you will have some convinced of one thing, others of another, and each group are sure of their truth. Mixed signals are sent out in the press, and create a UFO/Aliens mythology, which continues to be propagated throughout the rest of the century.
"Knight knew what most people only vaguely suspected -- that IntelligenceAgencies engage in both the collection of valid signals (information) and the promiscuous dissemination of fake signals (disinformation).
They collected the information so that they could form a fairly accurate picture of what was really going on; they spread the disinformation so that all their competitors would form grossly inaccurate pictures. They did this because they knew that whoever could find out what the hell was really going on possessed an advantage over those who were misinformed, confused and disoriented.
What the Double-Cross experts had invented was the practical political applications of the Strange Loop. In logic or cybernetics, a Strange Loop is a set of propositions that, while valid at each point, is so constructed that it leads to an unresolvable paradox. The Double-Cross people drove the Germans bonkers by inventing disinformation systems that, if believed, were deceptive, but if doubted led to a second disinformation system. They enjoyed this work so much that, at times, they invented Triple Loops...
These Strange Loops functioned especially well because the Double-Cross experts had early on fed the Germans the primordial Strange Loop. "Most of your agents are working for us and feeding your Strange Loops."
Many German agents, it later turned out, had managed to collect quite a bit of accurate information about the Normandy invasion, but many others turned in equally plausible information about a fictitious Norwegian invasion; and all of them were under suspicion, anyway. German Intelligence might as well have made its decisions by tossing a coin in the air."
--Robert Anton Wilson
originally posted by: ForteanOrg
...Perhaps he simply wanted to save face. But why does a guy that has found balloons before insist this was not a weather balloon he found? And why did the sheep refuse to pass by the debris - surely, debris from a small balloon does not have that effect on sheep?
* Sheep resist moving from one type of surface to another.
*Sheep have no depth perception, so shadows, dark
surfaces and water are an issue.
*Sheep fear new visual objects.
Understanding Sheep Behaviour
originally posted by: Arbitrageur
The idea of using UFO mythology to deflect attention from secret military hardware is valid enough, but there's no indication I'm aware of this took place at Roswell in 1947. By the 1950s this strategy was probably used to deflect attention from U2 flights, but again the Roswell case was not part of the strategy...it was pretty much forgotten.
The Roswell mythology didn't become significant until decades later, when some UFOlogists promoted the idea.
..."However, the origins of the Roswell story don't lie in Roswell itself, but about 350 miles north-west in the small town of Aztec, New Mexico. In 1950 the popular and outspoken Variety magazine columnist Frank Scully published a non-fiction book, Behind the Flying Saucers, which centred on a bizarre lecture given on 8 March 1950 at the University of Denver, Colorado.
In what sounds more like a market research experiment than an academic lecture, ninety science students were asked to attend a presentation on flying saucers by an anonymous lecturer. Word quickly spread around campus and on the day the hall was filled to capacity. In the fifty-minute presentation, the mysterious expert announced that not only were the flying saucers real, but that four of them had landed -not crashed -on Earth and three of these had been captured by the US Air Force.
"One of the larger craft, 100 feet across, had landed near Aztec, New Mexico; both the disc and its dead occupants were ferried off to Wright Patterson Air Force Base for examination. In fact this was not a new story: aviation historian Curtis Peebles dates it back to a prank account published by the Aztec Independent Review in 1948, which mentioned a saucer crash and little men from Venus.
According to Frank Scully, the three captured craft contained the bodies of thirty-four alien beings. These looked much like humans but were smaller in stature, 'of fair complexion' and lacked beards, though some of them had managed to cultivate 'a fine growth resembling peach fuzz...'
"Following the Denver lecture, attendees were asked whether they believed the presenter; 60 per cent said they did. Within hours, many also found themselves being questioned by Air Force Intelligence officers. Scully notes that a follow-up questionnaire was carried out among the students, and that the number who believed the presentation had fallen from 60 to 50 per cent, which was still considerably higher than the national average who believed that flying saucers came from Outer Space (about 20 per cent according to Scully). The message from the lecture was clear: exposure to a convincing source of information encouraged even bright college students to believe the improbable...
"In his diaries Newton wrote that after his identity was revealed by the Denver Post he was approached by two members of a 'highly secret US government entity' who told him that they knew his UFO crash story was a hoax, but that he should continue to tell it. If he did then 'they and the people they worked for would look out for me [Newton] and for Leo [Gebauer].
Were these mystery men figments of Newton's devious imagination, Air Force Intelligence agents, FBI or CIA officers, or, perhaps, Navy men out to cause more trouble for the US Air Force? We can only wonder, but they got what they wanted. Scully's book was rushed out in 1950 and sold around 60,000 copies, making it a bestseller of its day and further cementing the details of the flying saucer myth in the American imagination. Newton had done his job well.
Dr. ‘Feel Good’ Notes a Diversion
“It should not come as a surprise that Davidson suffered persecution by the CIA. This is extremely telling when compared to the lack of action taken against other researchers who claim that the CIA and other agencies are engaged in a massive cover-up concerning alien contact. So it’s okay to say that the CIA is hiding little green men, but when you say the CIA has concocted the story of little green men, the CIA hunts you down…”
-Phil Coppens, A Lone Chemist’s Quest to Expose the UFO Cover-Up
“Over the next six decades, the UFO mythology, and those who engaged with it, would continue to be exploited, steered and shaped by America’s armed forces and intelligence agencies. Who knows how differently things would have evolved if the UFO community had paid more attention to Leon Davidson, ufology’s lost prophet.”
-Mark Pilkington, Weapons of Mass Deception
The fine work of Mark Pilkington and Phil Coppens concerning the studies of Los Alamos scientist and Manhattan Project participant Dr Leon Davidson have bought much needed clarity and scope to the UFO equation. Davidson, whom enjoyed some small fame as a commentator on the subject, had begun investigating and tabulating all manner of UFO interactions in 1949 (and researching those prior). He had grave suspicions about the CIA’s involvement with disinformation concerning UFOs and all manner of PSYOPs (Psychological Operations) well ahead of his time.
Indeed, Davidson, often without knowing it, seems to have passed comment on both Operation Mockingbird and a certain infamous CIA drug induced program, years before they ever came to light. Davidson appears to have been open to the possibility of alien UFOs, but seems to have always believed in their being man made. He campaigned to have the government release unpublished documents pertaining to projects in the fifties namely Project Blue Book Special Report No. 14. But what’s odd is that he soon felt that he had been a conduit for US intelligence passing off false data about the US military’s use of captured alien technology.
originally posted by: ForteanOrg
If you can prove that I'm wrong, I will gladly stand corrected, but as it is now I uphold my statement: Flying Saucer meant Flying Disk v.v. in these days.
August 1947 Gallup Poll
"What do you think these saucers are?"
No answer, don't know 33%
Imagination, optical illusions, mirages, etc. 29%
US secret weapon, part of atomic bomb, etc. 15%
Weather forecasting devices 3%
Russian secret weapon 1%
Searchlights on airplanes 2%
Other explanations 9%
Wow. I haven't read the entire thread yet but....
Marcel was an unreliable witness because he fibbed before -- is it also impossible for a comedian to have a ufo sighting?
Facts are sensationalized to sell books -- with what topic are they not?
Brazel reported mogul-like debris -- a scared man who was covering his tracks AFTER he'd been paid
Brazel related that on June 14 he and 8-year-old son, Vernon were about 7 or 8 miles from the ranch house of the J.B. Foster ranch, which he operates, when they came upon a large area of bright wreckage made up on (sic) rubber strips, tinfoil, a rather tough paper and sticks.
Roswell Daily Record July 9th 1947
Kaughman was a fake -- yeah, we're the ones who told you that
How about discussing some of the inconvenient facts like how many of military personnel, in their 80s and 90s, admitted seeing dead aliens and/or material not from this world?
How about the carbon-nanotubes found under microscope in Roswell debris (technology not conceived until 1991)?
How about the impact trench/gouge that was left at the debris field?
How about the fact that the military was surprised by the crash because they hadn't lost any of their aircraft, and why was the debris flown to Wright-Pat?
Why was the area cordoned off with military checkpoints?
Why did dozens of people come out with corroborating recounts of handling debris with inexplicable qualities? Why were citizens threatened for talking? How could thousands of "lies" be so well corroborated?
Over the years I've found a common theme when it comes to paranormal/fringe topics. It's that skeptics aren't holding up intellectual debates because they aren't yet aware, or don't want to be aware of the full story. If you're interested in the real Roswell and not tabloids, skeptics and frauds, then this would be a good starting point