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Roswell for Dummies. :)

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posted on Dec, 23 2014 @ 04:05 PM
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originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
Is it really an old tactic to do this? Do you have any real world examples? I cant think of any.


Just a few then.

Firstly: 9/11. They told you two truths: initially the real truth: that America was under attack. But only hours later they told you the second truth, the more plausible one: that it was all the work of these proverbial inhabitants of cages in Afghanistan. So, that's what you believed. You did not wonder what or whom would be capable of attacking the strongest nation on this planet like that, because they already told you the lesser truth: it were these bearded weirdos in their cages. No lies were told.

Another example: the Germans in WWII. they wanted to attack Poland. But they needed an excuse. So they told the truth, initially: that they had to invade Poland. Then they told the lesser truth: that they simply shot back, suggesting the Poles had started the argument. "Ab Heute wird zurück geschossen". They did not lie: they really DID invade. They really shot back. No lies were told.

Or the invasion of Iraq. They told you the real truth first: that America neede to invade that country. Then they told you the lesser truth: that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. And yes, they had: gas, chemical weapons. But nothing that could threathen America, no atomic bombs etc. Still, no lies were told.

The problem with telling lies is that they can be proven to be lies eventually. The nice thing about telling the truth in a peculiar way is that you can't prove it wrong. It is the truth, after all. Only told in a peculiar way




posted on Dec, 23 2014 @ 04:32 PM
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a reply to: stormbringer1701




it'd be a little easier to believe it was baloney if the govt hadn't come up with 100 percent true certified explanations that were

a) contradictory
b) did not match timelines with actual events
c) were subsequently shown to be otherwise false
d) contradicted by their own personnel


They'd have done the same thing if it was something terrestrial that they didn't want us to know about. The only thing that proves it that governments will always put half ass cover stories together because they don't fear the general population.

It's good evidence yes that there was something happening they didn't want us to know about but that's it. Could be an alien crash. Could be some kind of test of new tech (at the time) which was classified.
edit on 23-12-2014 by Titor86 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2014 @ 04:50 PM
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a reply to: ForteanOrg
hmmmmn, Those are all very controversial topics where the truth may be distorted and hidden. They are all war time events too. The first casualty of war is truth and all that. So I am not sure if that really was an answer I was looking for and im not following how it relates. Besides I am not sure what the lies and truths were in those cases anyway.



posted on Dec, 23 2014 @ 05:35 PM
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Hi peoples, hi Gut, interesting thread.

When it comes to UFOs, why are they always found near military installations? I lean toward the idea (as always) that most of our modern UFO mythology stems from Intel agencies, and the psychological manipulation of the population. While I've come to dislike the term 'false flag', I can't help but wonder if Roswell was in fact just that, perhaps not dissimilar in certain aspects to the Rendlesham incident. If not, perhaps a real incident exploited to further a specific agenda or viewpoint.

At Roswell, why not convince some people they have seen an alien craft, and have others see the crash of the Mogul balloon? That way, the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing, and vice versa. So you will have some convinced of one thing, others of another, and each group are sure of their truth. Mixed signals are sent out in the press, and create a UFO/Aliens mythology, which continues to be propagated throughout the rest of the century.


edit on 23-12-2014 by cuckooold because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2014 @ 05:50 PM
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a reply to: ForteanOrg



Instead you use a very old tactic: you tell the truth.


Jesus, how'd I miss that in Sun Tzu?



"All warfare is based on deception."

-Sun Tzu

www.puppetpress.com...





posted on Dec, 23 2014 @ 05:54 PM
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Although the Roswell story has a number of problems with the "official" explanation once again I think it's necessary to not try to supplant 21st century ideas and language into the events and reports from 1947.

What did the phrase "flying disc" mean back in July 1947 to people?

Remember Kenneth Arnold's sightings were only a week or so old at the time and news was mainly gained from radio and newspapers. Most people did not have TVs and satellites were still another decade away from being invented.

I found this reference:



In all likelihood the commanding officer of the 509th, Colonel William "Butch" Blanchard, who authorized the release of the "disc crash" story by July 8th did not initially realize the implications of the event.

When his intelligence officer Major Jesse Marcel told him they had found the scattered debris of a flying disc, Blanchard probably first thought of a balloon crash or some such explainable event. The Arnold story was only eight days old and still being talked about.

On the evening of July 2nd, local retailer Dan Wilmot even had a saucer sighting. In 1947, however, flying discs or saucers had not yet assumed the image of extraterrestrial visitors that they have taken on today. Almost everyone then took it for granted that flying saucers were research balloons or military experiments of some sort. Colonel Blanchard probably innocently thought their recovered disc would be just one more story added to the many already being reported in the news media.

If the debris did come from something terrestrial, but secret, it would make sense that General Roger M. Ramey, commander of the 8th, would have then retracted Blanchard's disc story with a weather balloon explanation. It would make all the more sense if it was not just a low-level research experiment as Blanchard probably assumed, but a highly classified project, or a nuclear accident, or perhaps even something of Soviet origin.

This would conceal the indication of any such event and thus prevent public embarrassment at a time of mounting Cold War tensions. It would also conveniently and completely defuse the situation—which it immediately did.

Source : greyfalcon.us...



We must also be careful of assuming whether many people had any conception of spaceships and aliens and how the military could possibly know what they had even if they found a spaceship. Of course dead alien bodies would be a give away but not even Marcel was talking about them 30 years after the event.



posted on Dec, 23 2014 @ 06:53 PM
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originally posted by: cuckooold
At Roswell, why not convince some people they have seen an alien craft, and have others see the crash of the Mogul balloon? That way, the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing, and vice versa. So you will have some convinced of one thing, others of another, and each group are sure of their truth. Mixed signals are sent out in the press, and create a UFO/Aliens mythology, which continues to be propagated throughout the rest of the century.
The idea of using UFO mythology to deflect attention from secret military hardware is valid enough, but there's no indication I'm aware of this took place at Roswell in 1947. By the 1950s this strategy was probably used to deflect attention from U2 flights, but again the Roswell case was not part of the strategy...it was pretty much forgotten.

The Roswell mythology didn't become significant until decades later, when some UFOlogists promoted the idea.



posted on Dec, 23 2014 @ 07:14 PM
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a reply to: The GUT

No worries.
Hope Roseville incident did not dent your entire believe there are alien beings visiting Earth. Are you that easy to manipulate?

Alex.



posted on Dec, 23 2014 @ 07:24 PM
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originally posted by: Herolotus
I do believe, mostly from documents received in the last few yeard from the freedom of information act, that something crashed at Roswell that was not of American design. Whatever it was, it was unusual, difficult to identify, and worthy of study.


Which specific FOIA's are you referring to, Herolotus?


edit on 23-12-2014 by The GUT because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2014 @ 07:38 PM
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originally posted by: darkorange

No worries.
Hope Roseville incident did not dent your entire believe there are alien beings visiting Earth.

I have no "entire belief" we've been visited by aliens. I do believe that a truly anomalous phenomena exists, however.


Are you that easy to manipulate?

No, because I research both pro & con. I'm also willing to debate by providing sourced material and explaining my thought process.

Do you have anything to add to the discussion besides hit & run calorie-free rhetoric?



posted on Dec, 23 2014 @ 08:48 PM
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originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: 111DPKING111





Rendlesham, JAL flight 1628 , Belgium wave, Westall school, Tehran incident with F4, and Shag harbor are all far superior cases imo.



Rendlesham smacks more of psy-ops than ET once you dig beyond the surface. And the other cases are not as solid as they first seem. This is the problem with the whole topic. In 7 decades Ufology has never turned up anything solid to prove what Ufos actually are never mind the proof they are not of this earth.


Afraid we will have to agree to disagree, there is an abundance of evidence if you are willing to take the time to look at it and consider all the angles, much of it with radar confirmation + plus personal testimony. But either way, Im of the opinion there isnt much we could do about them anyway.



posted on Dec, 23 2014 @ 09:12 PM
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originally posted by: The GUT

originally posted by: darkorange

No worries.
Hope Roseville incident did not dent your entire believe there are alien beings visiting Earth.

I have no "entire belief" we've been visited by aliens. I do believe that a truly anomalous phenomena exists, however.


Are you that easy to manipulate?

No, because I research both pro & con. I'm also willing to debate by providing sourced material and explaining my thought process.

Do you have anything to add to the discussion besides hit & run calorie-free rhetoric?



Look, it is all about whether you personally saw them or not. If you never did, it would be like discussing first time sex experience.



posted on Dec, 23 2014 @ 09:19 PM
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GUT, I got a feeling you got something interesting in the works...



posted on Dec, 23 2014 @ 10:10 PM
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a reply to: darkorange

Personally saw who? Aliens? Or anomalous phenomena?



posted on Dec, 23 2014 @ 11:23 PM
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a reply to: The GUT

Season's Greetings, GUT!


Well, as far as I can tell, according to research by people like Joseph Farrell and others, the Roswell myth was spun to find a way to deal with covert technology and hide it under an alien cover for a variety of reasons. I think patent propriety and military strategy and technological dominance would be first and foremost. Psyops tricks for other nations to wonder/worry about.

But also it seems that there was a legitimate faction that has always wanted to bring about world unity with new technologies that could only work if "given" somehow by an external culture. I think it's just been a really challenging thing to bring this about in a way that works for the competing factions and in a way that is ultimately believable to the public. That's why the subject seems fraught with danger, because some people seem to not want to "spoil the surprise".

For example, Dr. Greer's disclosure versus Leslie Kean's disclosure. What were the ultimate differences? Greer proposed ET intelligence, Roswell etc - but also covert military technology. Kean only highlighted the UFO mystery. I think this all comes down to strategy, PsyOps and finding a way to utilize amazing technologies. At one time there may have been a way to let the everyday peasants of the world in on all of this, and many have hoped for and expected some sort of contact event. But things always seem to go awry from information leaking etc.

I half assume now that if the world is driven mad and close to nuclear war, the genuine UFOs will touch down and make themselves known to the world by intervening. Maybe at that time we will get help. The Roswell myth has the deepest roots and therefore much potential for the public to wrap its mind around when trying to explain the UFO mystery, but I suppose it has become much too contaminated now. I think there are aspects of the story that can be salvaged. I think Boyd Bushman and his cronies had a vested interest in perpetrating that story. But his last disclosure was very muddled, largely due to his old age. I think the UFO craft pictures were legitimate, however.

We need a UFO mystery, even if humans are ultimately behind a lot of it.



posted on Dec, 24 2014 @ 05:29 AM
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a reply to: mirageman

Though it were different times then, don't underestimate what people knew in those days. The V2 flying rocket had not even been invented and Arnold never had spoken about flying disks and stuff like that. But take a look at this commercial from 1936, especially on what you see near the 35 second mark:

As you see, rockets and flying round stuff was very much part of folklore already, more than 11 years before the Arnold sightings. So, people DID have a notion how a 'spaceship' had to look and yes, they pictured it as a shiny metallic thingy. Also, though they did not have the Internet
- don't underestimate the speed with which news travelled: there were national radio networks in those days, lot's of radio stations and daily newspapers. Even television had been around for almost 20 years then, though the NTSC standard wasn't produced until 1941. So, to depict the dear folks around Roswell as unaware of how a spaceship / rocket etc. had to look is just a stretch too far for me.

BTW: even the description of an 'egg-like' saucer and 3 foot tall aliens is nothing new, I cite from Wikipedia

An early example of speculation over extraterrestrial visitors can be found in the French newspaper Le Pays, which on June 17, 1864, published a story about two American geologists who had allegedly discovered an alien-like creature, a mummified three-foot-tall hairless humanoid with a trunk-like appendage on its forehead, inside a hollow egg-shaped structure

edit on 24-12-2014 by ForteanOrg because: he reread it and found typos.



posted on Dec, 24 2014 @ 05:41 AM
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originally posted by: cuckooold
Hi peoples, hi Gut, interesting thread.

When it comes to UFOs, why are they always found near military installations?


A possible mundane explanation might be that there are people in those installation whom are constantly surveilling their surroundings. In some more rural area's whole fleets of lumeniscent space-elephants might cross the skies without being noticed by anybody but a lonely rabbit and the occasional owl.



posted on Dec, 24 2014 @ 05:56 AM
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a reply to: cuckooold

The "Mitchell and Webb Look" video contains a number of erroneous thoughts. The reason to keep crashlanded aliens a secret has been discussed many times before: it would undermine a lot of religious systems, would freighten people and might cause chaos. By default one should now write something about Orson Welles' "War of the Worlds" radio drama I believe, though the 'mass panic' that caused was vastly exaggerated.

But there are other reasons: if a ship that contained "high tech" systems crashlanded in the USA, especially when on the brink of the cold war, you'd want to keep that to yourselves (at least for a while). Also remember that "keeping things secret" had been the nations habit for the previous 10 years, before, during and after WWII. So, it makes perfect sense to me that any crashed UFO would have been kept secret.

If the crashed crafte weren't seen as a threat - because they did not seem to harrass humans normally, did not have any rayguns they used on us etc. - you would not alert the general population. And IFF they had such arms - and used them - you COULD not keep it a secret anyway. So, it is safe to say that if aliens crashlanded in 1947 they either already are lord and master here - sometimes I believe they are, given the almost hostile actions of our governments against their own population - or do not pose much of a danger to us at all.

So, all in all I believe that the path of 'gradual disclosure' would indeed be the best thing to do - and maybe that's what has been going on for the last 100 years or so.



posted on Dec, 24 2014 @ 06:42 AM
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originally posted by: 111DPKING111

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: 111DPKING111





Rendlesham, JAL flight 1628 , Belgium wave, Westall school, Tehran incident with F4, and Shag harbor are all far superior cases imo.



Rendlesham smacks more of psy-ops than ET once you dig beyond the surface. And the other cases are not as solid as they first seem. This is the problem with the whole topic. In 7 decades Ufology has never turned up anything solid to prove what Ufos actually are never mind the proof they are not of this earth.


Afraid we will have to agree to disagree, there is an abundance of evidence if you are willing to take the time to look at it and consider all the angles, much of it with radar confirmation + plus personal testimony. But either way, Im of the opinion there isnt much we could do about them anyway.



You are perfectly entitled to take a different view than me over Rendlesham (in fact I am still to find any firm conclusion). There is lots of evidence and personal testimony. But the problem is that much of it is in conflict. If you have some hard radar evidence then to avoid derailing this thread please add it this one (I think you'll find across the 30+ pages I have taken the time to look into Rendlesham just a little bit) :

Rendlesham Forest…, A Christmas Story from 1980 - Can We ‘Let it Be’?

Although please note that the start to "ITVs Strange But True" program and Nigel Kerr's statement have already been discussed in that thread in a number of places. Specificially here.. The first was misrepresentation by the TV company, the 2nd remains interesting but anecdotal.



posted on Dec, 24 2014 @ 07:19 AM
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a reply to: ForteanOrg

Fair point my friend. In fact we could also go back to the closing moments of the 19th Century and HG Wells "War of the Worlds". So I am not disagreeing that people from other worlds and spaceships was not something covered in literature and on radio and TV prior to 1947. Even the ubiquitous 'flying saucer' appears before Roswell in print. But if we assume that it came from human imagination then it also became integrated into UFO culture.

The main reference was that the term "flying disc" was not automatically deemed to be an alien spaceship back then. Even if you or I spotted an alien spaceship tomorrow would we actually know for definite it was an alien spaceship?

I'm sure you'll be able to come up with an interesting response.
edit on 24/12/14 by mirageman because: flying sauce is something entirely different to flying saucer :O




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