It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

The Scandal of the Crucifix: The Promise

page: 2
1
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Dec, 20 2014 @ 01:05 PM
link   
these hateful messages are getting really tiring. it actually reminds me a lot of Iron Man 3.

"Tomorrow, I will have the world's most wanted terrorist in one hand, and the world's most powerful leader in the other. I will create supply and demand. I will own the war on terror."

sounds kind of familiar. sin in one hand, jesus in the other, keep poisoning the people and giving them medicine...for a price.

edit on 20-12-2014 by TzarChasm because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 20 2014 @ 07:53 PM
link   
a reply to: windword

'Forgiveness for what? Being Human? '

Being human means being at war, whether or not you are aware of it. We need God's help, because our weaponry is shot.

'I believe that no one can forgive anyone unless they're capable of forgiving themselves. I think it's just a side step to claim to be the recipient of forgiveness from God,when one can't forgive themselves.'

I suppose I do not know what you mean by this. Fulton Sheen says that to better your character you should always look for the best in others and the worst in yourself. I am almost sure that you do not agree with that though.



posted on Dec, 20 2014 @ 08:33 PM
link   
a reply to: backcase

Socrates once said: "The unexamined life is not worth living". I agree with his and your Fulton Sheen's statements.

I disagree with the idea that we need to be saved from life on earth by an ethereal being that is outside of us, trying to get inside of us.



posted on Dec, 21 2014 @ 04:17 PM
link   
a reply to: backcase

The problem is that on the Mount of Transfiguration the EssiYAH gave the new LAW of Mercy which I will post here for you. The great Whore Church excluded it from the canonized Bible for Pagans we call the KJV. By the standards of the new LAW most people will assuredly be punished by choosing the false prophet Paul's teachings then that of the YAHshuWAH. I come in my Fathers name and you receive me not. Another will come in his own name, him you will receive. Read the provision for food on the first page of the Bible. Do you think GOD changed his mind somewhere along the way? Then again when Adam and Ha Wah (Eve) fall did he not tell them that them that BY THE SWEAT OF THY FACE THEY WOULD EAT THE HERB OF THE FIELD (BREAD) UNTIL THEY RETURN TO THE GROUND. So then who is it that will lawfully kill and eat animals.

7. AND YAHshuWAH said unto them, behold a new law I give unto you, which is not new but old. Even as Moses gave the Ten Commandments to YAHshurun after the flesh, so also I give unto you the Twelve for the Kingdom of YAHshurun after the Spirit. 8. for who are the YAHshurun of GOD? Even they of every nation and tribe who work righteousness, love mercy and keep my commandments, these are the true YAHshurun of GOD. And standing upon his feet, YAHshuWAH spake, saying: 9. Hear O YAHshurun, YHWH, thy GOD is One; many are My seers, and My prophets. In Me all live and move, and have subsistence.

10. Ye shall not take away the life of any creature for your pleasure, nor for your profit. nor yet torment it.

11. Ye shall not steal the goods of any, nor gather lands and riches to yourselves, beyond your need or use.

12. Ye shall not eat the flesh, nor drink the blood of any slaughtered creature, nor yet anything which bringeth disorder to your health or senses.

13. Ye shall not make impure marriages, where love and health are not, nor yet corrupt yourselves, or any creature made pure by the Holy.

14. Ye shall not bear false witness against any, nor willfully deceive any by a lie to hurt them.

15. Ye shall not do unto others, as ye would not that others should do unto you.

16. Ye shall worship One Eternal, the Father-Mother in Heaven, of whom are all things, and reverence the holy Name.

17. Ye shall revere your fathers and your mothers on earth, whose care is for you, and all the Teachers of Righteousness.

18. Ye shall cherish and protect the weak, and those who are oppressed, and all creatures that suffer wrong.

19. Ye shall work with your hands the things that are good and seemly; so shalt ye eat the fruits Of the earth, and live long in the land.

20. Ye shall purify yourselves daily and rest the Seventh Day from labour, keeping holy the Sabbaths and the Festival of your God.

21. Ye shall do unto others as ye would that others should do unto you.

22. And when the disciples heard these words, they smote upon their breasts, saying: Wherein we have offended. O YHWH forgive us: and may thy wisdom, love and truth within us incline our hearts to love and keep this Holy Law. 23. And YAHshuWAHa said unto them, My yoke is equal and my burden light, if ye will to bear it, to you it will be easy. Lay no other burden on those that enter into the kingdom, but only these necessary things. 24. This is the new Law unto the Israel of YHWH, and the Law is within, for it is the Law of Love, and it is not new but old. Take heed that ye add nothing to this law, neither take anything from it. Verily I say unto you, they who believe and obey this law shall be saved, and they who know and obey it not, shall be lost. 25. But as in Adam all die so in YAHshuWAH shall all be made alive. Gospel of the Holy Twelve 46

edit on 21-12-2014 by TheoFieldsGardener because: spelling



posted on Dec, 21 2014 @ 05:51 PM
link   
a reply to: TheoFieldsGardener

It must make you furious to know that by the Name of "Jesus" people all over the world are healed, demons are cast out, addictions are broken, marriages are reconciled, and prayers are answered in miraculous ways. That must really make you furious.



posted on Dec, 21 2014 @ 06:54 PM
link   
a reply to: TheoFieldsGardener

We do not need more commandments or formula. Jesus did not come to abolish the old law, but to perfect it.

You basically just mashed the commandments with the beatitudes and made everything a bit more complicated.

Tell me, are the Twelve holy, if they accept Paul as an apostle, being as you believe him to be a... 'false prophet'?

It's a very big contradiction, not a small one. You should really think about divesting yourself of those beliefs and do as Jesus would do.

Also, pray the rosary.
edit on 083131p://000 by backcase because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 21 2014 @ 07:09 PM
link   
a reply to: backcase




Tell me, are the Twelve holy, if they accept Paul as an apostle, being as you believe him to be a... 'false prophet'.


I love how the Holy Spirit knew in advance every heresy man would come up with in the next 2000 years and addressed then simply and concisely in scripture.

Anyone who says Paul was a false apostle has never read 2 Peter.



posted on Dec, 21 2014 @ 07:56 PM
link   
a reply to: NOTurTypical

Although heresy aims to discolour the truth, it makes the God shine brighter. We are offended for the insult given to God, and we give up a bit more of ourselves for Him to shine through. We will gladly make amends for others, it gives God much joy when we comfort Him for the love withheld by others.



posted on Dec, 22 2014 @ 07:26 PM
link   
Actually it makes me sad that the Catholic Church was allowed to take it out of the Bible but apparently they were made to pull it from the vault translate it and publish it. "My sheep know my voice."




10. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father-Mother Who is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy Name? and in thy Name have cast out devils? and in thy Name done many wonderful works? And then will I say unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


a reply to: NOTurTypical



posted on Dec, 22 2014 @ 08:10 PM
link   
I only posted a quote from the Gospel the Gospels were taken from. Here's another

7. He saith unto him the third time, Peter, son of Jonas (Johah), lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me ? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. 8. YAHshuWAH saith unto him, Feed my Flock. Verily verily, I say unto thee, thou art a rock from the Rock, and on this rock will I build my Church, and I will raise thee above my twelve to be my vicegerent upon earth for a centre of Unity to the twelve, and another shall be called and chosen to fill thy place among the twelve, and thou shalt be the Servant of servants and shalt feed my rams, my sheep and my lambs. 9. AND YET ANOTHER shall arise and he shall teach many things which I have taught you already, and he shall spread the Gospel among the Gentiles with great zeal. BUT THE KEYS OF THE KINGDOM WILL I GIVE TO THOSE WHO SUCCEED THEE IN MY SPIRIT AND OBEYING MY LAW. 10. And again I say unto thee. When thou wast young thou girdedst thyself and walketh whither thou wouldst, but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands and another shall gird thee and carry thee whither thou wouldst not (Jonah wouldn't carry to Nineveh but Paul would). This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God.

Notice you can't enter the Kingdom on Paul only on Peter and the Christians have what 2 itty bitty books. Clementos followed Peter around and wrote down everything he said. Have you read the Clementine Homilies? Peter teaches that eating animal flesh is dinning with the Prince of Demons. It's also not healthy and causes cancer. If you eat their blood your death will be required at an animal. Early Protestant Ministers called it robbing Peter to pay Paul.This is the Millennial Kingdom. After this time no more. YHWH never promised Heaven to the children of fallen Angels. Zeus can't even get himself into Heaven any more. How can he offer salvation through him. Can he Crash the gates.

a reply to: backcase



posted on Dec, 22 2014 @ 10:23 PM
link   
a reply to: TheoFieldsGardener





Actually it makes me sad that the Catholic Church was allowed to take it out of the Bible but apparently they were made to pull it from the vault translate it and publish it. "My sheep know my voice."


I don't have any idea what you're talking about, and I cannot speak for the Catholic Church... I'm not Catholic. The point I made which escaped you is that by the Name of Jesus all those miracles happen. Not by the might or power of man, but by the power of the Holy Spirit and the Name of Jesus. And He Himself already said that satan's house is not divided, or it will never stand. That satan doesn't cast out satan.



posted on Dec, 22 2014 @ 10:58 PM
link   
You will not know what Peter has said if you only read the Bible. I haven't lost your point at all. If Zeus is the name your willing to bet eternity on that is your business. I'm not trying to convert you. This is a forum where people say things. We all don't agree and that's okay here. It is enough for me that I have spoken the TRUTH though it is not your TRUTH. Most people don't know that YHWH has said that the unlawful children of the fallen Angels are not going to receive salvation. This is written in the Books of Enoch, YAHshur, Jubilees and even in the Bible.

Also many of Adam's children will be deceived and unto them he has said unless your righteousness exceeds that of the Pharisee you will not enter the Kingdom of YHWH. What did they do? They sacrificed innocent animals in the name of YHWH to purge themselves of sin which he stopped. Blood sacrifice won't happen again until the Abomination of Desolation. But they also were not keeping the Holy days on correct days. I would be interested to know though when he says "Come out of her my people so you don't share in her punishment" what pray tell they should be fleeing from?

a reply to: NOTurTypical



posted on Dec, 22 2014 @ 11:07 PM
link   
a reply to: TheoFieldsGardener




You will not know what Peter has said if you only read the Bible. I haven't lost your point at all. If Zeus is the name your willing to bet eternity on that is your business.


You aren't getting it still... the point I'm making is that our salvation isn't witchcraft, where we vocalize certain words or syllables to move the hand of God. It's not the magic Name, it's the PERSON who is being called upon by that Name. Jesus, Yeshua, Iesous, or:

耶稣 -- Chinese
Issa -- Arabic
Иисус -- Russian
Gesù -- Italian
Jezi -- Hatian

It's not witchcraft, where He only responds to the correct syllables. It's the PERSON that you are calling upon when you say His Name. Look, when I used to work as an executive chef in a kitchen and the Hispanics say my name it's not what my mother calls me, but I know exactly who they are speaking to.

That's the point I'm making.




Also many of Adam's children will be deceived and unto them he has said unless your righteousness exceeds that of the Pharisee you will not enter the Kingdom of YHWH.


The Christian doctrine is that our justification rests not on our righteousness anyways. It rests on His righteousness.


edit on 22-12-2014 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 22 2014 @ 11:48 PM
link   
That's Paul teachings and not his. I actually quoted to you what he has said about entering the Kingdom of God. So you see this where we differ. I won't ignore when he says something, it's Golden and I will not let a false prophet deceive me. This is the meaning of my sheep know my voice. Same thing with YHWH you are given on the first page of the Bible the provision for food and yet you spend every page after denying what's already in the Law. I love how YAHshuWAH actually praises the A-'s for not believing a false Apostle.




Revelation 2:2-3 (KJV) 2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: 3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.


They didn't buy it because the already knew his name. Who is this Jehovah. There was no J or V in the Hebrew. We know Jesus is Zeus because every time they dedicated a city to Zeus it ended in sus. Even the Hispanics know this. The fallen grigori are from the planet Jupiter, in Greek the name is XES (Zeus). Get a Greek Bible, any one of them the number of his name is 666 but the name is XES. Zeus is Satan. They are God's apostates and have not been welcome in Heaven since the flood.



Its Number "is"χξς G5516 Six Hundred "and" Sixty - Six.


a reply to: NOTurTypical



posted on Dec, 23 2014 @ 02:44 AM
link   
a reply to: TheoFieldsGardener




I love how YAHshuWAH actually praises the A-'s for not believing a false Apostle.


When you have a second or three read 2 Peter.



edit on 23-12-2014 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2014 @ 07:32 AM
link   
I have no problem with that. but let's look at what he is actually saying.

2 Peter 3:13-18 (KJV)
14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also ACCORDING TO THE WISDOM GIVEN UNTO HIM hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are SOME THINGS HARD TO BE UNDERSTOOD, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing YE KNEW THESE THINGS BEFORE (wink wink), beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour YAHshuWAH. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

Who saw YAHshuWAH in the desert? Who saw him in the secret chamber (Holy of Holies)? I'm not denying Paul was appointed to the Gentiles as a prophet that would be denying the prophecy he gave to Peter on the matter of Jonah his kinsman not being willing to preach to the Gentiles however his teachings as stated by YAHshuWAH will not offer the keys to enter the Kingdom. I am glad you brought this up please continue. Now go back to what James says at the counsel in Jerusalem in Acts.

reply to: NOTurTypical



posted on Dec, 23 2014 @ 09:30 AM
link   
a reply to: backcase



Those who have these questions should ask themselves; What are we being saved from in the Crucifix; What do we feel we need to be saved from; Are we of the same blood as those who shouted 'Crucify Him!' and 'come down from thy cross and save yourself if thou truly art the son of God!'.

Your entire premise is based upon your theological understanding. My understanding is not the same as your understanding.

According to my teachers, humanity has always had salvation offered to them. That salvation was not a celestial salvation but was a terrestrial salvation. All spirits of souls were confined as conscious entities in the bowels of this world. They were separated the good from the bad but all had consciousness and remembrance of life in the terrestrial body.

This was the state of existence for all creation till the Christ Jesus came upon the scene and preached that there is a kingdom of heaven that would be revealed upon death. This kingdom of heaven was not described in detail while Jesus was alive upon this earth. Jesus declared that He would bring a new covenant upon His death and that new covenant would be that all worthy spirits would no longer be imprisoned in the earth but would enjoy a new life with a new body in the celestial realm.

Yes you can say that He brought salvation and forgiveness of sin because that was exactly what He did. He brought salvation to the captives first and led them into the New Jerusalem where they received their new name and body and were given the water and food of everlasting life. That is the true salvation message. From that point as each and every person dies they are judged immediately and given life or remain imprisoned in the earth. That is the doctrine of Christ Jesus. Jesus' doctrine is everlasting life and in order to be a candidate for everlasting life one must have a pardon or forgiveness. That is only common theological sense.

The world is scheduled to be destroyed eventually. If all spirits were kept in the earth and New Jerusalem had not been offered in the third heaven then all people would perish in the destruction of the universe. But Jesus came to give us life and establish His kingdom with a new covenant. Under the old covenant of law there was no provision of eternal life in the kingdom of heaven.

Why did He give His kingdom to us with death of His terrestrial body? Because all life is in the blood. All life (blood) covenants are complete with sacrifice (Giving).



posted on Dec, 23 2014 @ 11:29 AM
link   
a reply to: TheoFieldsGardener

You missed it. Peter says unequivocally that Paul is a "beloved brother", that is a term to describe another brother in Christ. And 2 Peter is specifically written to warn of FALSE TEACHERS!!! lol

If Paul was a false apostle then that letter itself would have been the PERFECT place to proclaim it to his readers.



posted on Dec, 23 2014 @ 11:55 AM
link   
You obviously do not understand Hebrew Irony. You are making my point.




John 5:43 (KJV) 43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.


So what is that Name he is speaking of and who is it?

1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, 2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) Romans 1:1-2 (KJV)
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:Romans 11:13 (KJV)
1 Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother, 1 Cor 1:1 (KJV)
1 Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord? 1 Cor 9:1 (KJV)
2 If I be not an apostle unto others, yet doubtless I am to you: for the seal of mine apostleship are ye in the Lord. 1 Cor 9:2 (KJV)
9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am(Blasphemer): 1 Cor 15:9-10 (KJV)
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God 2 Cor 1:1 (KJV)
12 Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds. 2 Cor 12:12 (KJV)
1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead
Gal 1:1 (KJV)
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus: Eph 1:1 (KJV)
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timotheus our brother, 2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse Col 1:1-2 (KJV)
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope; 1 Tim 1:1 (KJV)
7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not
a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity. 1 Tim 2:7 (KJV)
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus, 2 Tim 1:1 (KJV)
11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles. 2 Tim 1:11 (KJV)
1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness; Titus 1:1 (KJV)
2 If I be not an apostle unto others, yet doubtless I am to you: for the seal of mine apostleship are ye in the Lord. 1 Cor 9:2 (KJV)

Notice Paul did not preach to the Judeans in Asia Minor (the 7 Churches of Revelation) The only one he tried he was run out of, Ephesus. Keep it coming . I can do this all day.

a reply to: NOTurTypical



posted on Dec, 23 2014 @ 11:58 AM
link   
a reply to: TheoFieldsGardener

Jesus was speaking to the Jews, THEY would accept someone who came in his own name. The Jews didn't accept Jesus, in fact they are still under blindness. Do you even pay attention to context? That's one of the 8 laws of Biblical hermeneutics.

Name for me anyone in the Jewish faith who accepted Paul as the Moshiach Nagid.

Likewise you ignored the point about Peter affirming Paul as a fellow brother in Christ in his epistle written specifically to address false teachers.




Notice Paul did not preach to the Judeans in Asia Minor (the 7 Churches of Revelation) The only one he tried he was run out of, Ephesus.


Acts 19 isn't in your Bible?


edit on 23-12-2014 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



new topics

top topics



 
1
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join