London police: we believe claims of ‘VIP’ child sex abuse and murder

a reply to: s3cz0ne

Is perhaps some of the animus I'm seeing on this thread, because of the use of the term Pagan, in reference to Nazis? I think perhaps the average Christian may not understand that there are many people who do consider themselves Pagans, and hold that belief system as sacred. So using it as a general term, and to imply it is Luciferian can be offensive. I doubt there is much, if any, intent to disparage someone's spiritual beliefs, by folks who simply are unfamiliar with with the terminologies outside whatever faith they were brought up in. I was raised Catholic. And as a kid we were regularly taught that non-Christians were called Pagans, and that further they were at least mistaken, if not downright evil. At any rate....just a passing thought.

originally posted by: TrueBrit


You seem incapable of understanding that the ritual element to this case, is a) probably a massive red herring, and b) about as important to the facts of the case and indeed the acquisition of justice, as are a damp kipper and a fledgling goose!

Thank you. Well said. This particular form of religious hysteria (accusations of organized Satanic ritual abuse) pops up from time to time and is spread by the frothers who seem to want it to be true. Lack of evidence does not deter them. Any speculation as to why this is a popular meme?

originally posted by: Enderdog
a reply to: s3cz0ne

Is perhaps some of the animus I'm seeing on this thread, because of the use of the term Pagan, in reference to Nazis? I think perhaps the average Christian may not understand that there are many people who do consider themselves Pagans, and hold that belief system as sacred. So using it as a general term, and to imply it is Luciferian can be offensive. I doubt there is much, if any, intent to disparage someone's spiritual beliefs, by folks who simply are unfamiliar with with the terminologies outside whatever faith they were brought up in. I was raised Catholic. And as a kid we were regularly taught that non-Christians were called Pagans, and that further they were at least mistaken, if not downright evil. At any rate....just a passing thought.

You're absolutely right.

originally posted by: TechUnique

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: doggoneit666
I remember what was called the "Satanic Panic" of Satanic Ritual Abuse in the 80s and early 90s and how it was all dismissed as hysteria due to the supposed lack of evidence (see the McMartin case and how a mountain of evidence was covered up).

No, satanic ritual abuse (in the UK) was thrown out because it was not happening. There was no cover up. Thcourt found no evidence that was not made up in the minds of people who wanted it to be true.

Regards

Thank you for your rational post and not jumping on the religious hysteria bandwagon.

Yeah, that good ol' fashioned law and order we've grown so much to trust.. when the system is corrupt, lets rely on the system to investigate itself.

Nice faulty logic there mate. I cannot stand your posts on this forum. You honestly, HONESTLY believe that just because a court ruled something, it is case closed? Don't be so silly as to ever talk about it again?

TANGERINEDREAM is here to save the day and tell you what not to think about yet again. Thank's Gatekeeper.

Yet another wild accusation! Are you suggesting that we allow David Icke to investigate accusations of criminal acts or just skip the investigations and trials all together and move directly to convictions based solely on accusations? Or would you prefer to be the one who points at people and declares with the force of law that they're guilty of heinous crimes?

I'll bet you can't stand my posts on this forum: you didn't understand them. I never said that just because a court ruled something it's case closed. I challenge you to copy and paste the post in which I said this. I never said it should never be talked about again. I challenge you to copy and paste the post in which I said this. I have never told anyone what not to think about. I have merely suggested that they actually think.

Let the hysteria continue.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Look, whether its centred around the occult or not is probably not the main issue at this stage, youre right, it should be establishing what crimes have been committed and by who etc. But, whether occult has been used or not in ritual abuse, IS very important, because it involves people on positions of power, and clearly they are using extremely demented practises in order to secure their positions of power. It has implications for the whole country whether it was occult or not... Why? Because occult ritual is about getting power.

originally posted by: Enderdog
a reply to: s3cz0ne

Is perhaps some of the animus I'm seeing on this thread, because of the use of the term Pagan, in reference to Nazis? I think perhaps the average Christian may not understand that there are many people who do consider themselves Pagans, and hold that belief system as sacred. So using it as a general term, and to imply it is Luciferian can be offensive. I doubt there is much, if any, intent to disparage someone's spiritual beliefs, by folks who simply are unfamiliar with with the terminologies outside whatever faith they were brought up in. I was raised Catholic. And as a kid we were regularly taught that non-Christians were called Pagans, and that further they were at least mistaken, if not downright evil. At any rate....just a passing thought.

Firstly I would like to point out that I PERSONALLY DO NOT FEEL THAT PAGAN PEOPLES ARE EVIL IN ANY WAY. My point was simply that the NAZIS were/are BOTH PAGAN AND EVIL. That certainly does not mean that I BELIEVE that ALL PAGANS ARE EVIL. As an example Wicca does not promote any evil, at least not in my experience and/or based off of my own readings.

I was myself raised as an RC. I have personally moved onto a new spiritual belief system which incorporates Jung's Synchronicity/Buddhism/Karma & Dharma/Manicheanism/Gnosticism/Taoism/Confucianism/Sufi-ism/Kabaalah/Mysticism....(Some of the above Philosophies I spelled them the way I knew how and thought proper, A few were auto-corrected)

It is true that I have associated Paganism with the Nazi Party and especially Himmler's SS. However I DID NOT AND DO NOT mean to suggest that pagans in general are evil. I do believe that those who were associated with the SS(FACT -- Lebensborn class requirement... many lived in lebensborn communities) and many Nazi Party members or their various extension organization members were adherents to a new, Aryan/Nordic, Pagan BELIEF SYSTEM with RADICAL RELIGIOUS-LIKE DEVOTION & COMMITMENT!

I have nothing against Pagans in anyway.... Only a problem with EVIL!!!

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: Enderdog
a reply to: s3cz0ne

Is perhaps some of the animus I'm seeing on this thread, because of the use of the term Pagan, in reference to Nazis? I think perhaps the average Christian may not understand that there are many people who do consider themselves Pagans, and hold that belief system as sacred. So using it as a general term, and to imply it is Luciferian can be offensive. I doubt there is much, if any, intent to disparage someone's spiritual beliefs, by folks who simply are unfamiliar with with the terminologies outside whatever faith they were brought up in. I was raised Catholic. And as a kid we were regularly taught that non-Christians were called Pagans, and that further they were at least mistaken, if not downright evil. At any rate....just a passing thought.

You're absolutely right.

--------------------------------------------------------

Would you would agree with that... You are quick to criticize people and demand sources. You did the same with me and (on pg. 3) you decided to respond that "most of what I said was correct". It really baffles me why you have such a problem with a POTENTIAL ritualistic aspect attached to this. I personally have recommended a number of things for you to check out that are very relevant to the U.K. case as they have happened here in the states and everyone knows that U.S.A. and U.K. are great allies(at least at this point... Snowden docs).

I'm guessing that you haven't even bothered to look at Monarch, The Finders, or The Franklin Conspiracy... Let alone the books that I pointed out that explain much of this phenomena and detangle a much of this web. BTW I HAVE DONE THE RESEARCH ON THE ABOVE SO THEREFORE I AM NOT ASKING YOU TO DO IT FOR ME! (had to point that out as the first person who mentioned that people GOOGLE THE FRANKLIN COVER-UP was accused by you of them asking you to do their research for them)
--------------------------------------------------------

originally posted by: s3cz0ne

originally posted by: Enderdog
a reply to: s3cz0ne

Is perhaps some of the animus I'm seeing on this thread, because of the use of the term Pagan, in reference to Nazis? I think perhaps the average Christian may not understand that there are many people who do consider themselves Pagans, and hold that belief system as sacred. So using it as a general term, and to imply it is Luciferian can be offensive. I doubt there is much, if any, intent to disparage someone's spiritual beliefs, by folks who simply are unfamiliar with with the terminologies outside whatever faith they were brought up in. I was raised Catholic. And as a kid we were regularly taught that non-Christians were called Pagans, and that further they were at least mistaken, if not downright evil. At any rate....just a passing thought.

Firstly I would like to point out that I PERSONALLY DO NOT FEEL THAT PAGAN PEOPLES ARE EVIL IN ANY WAY. My point was simply that the NAZIS were/are BOTH PAGAN AND EVIL. That certainly does not mean that I BELIEVE that ALL PAGANS ARE EVIL. As an example Wicca does not promote any evil, at least not in my experience and/or based off of my own readings.

I was myself raised as an RC. I have personally moved onto a new spiritual belief system which incorporates Jung's Synchronicity/Buddhism/Karma & Dharma/Manicheanism/Gnosticism/Taoism/Confucianism/Sufi-ism/Kabaalah/Mysticism....(Some of the above Philosophies I spelled them the way I knew how and thought proper, A few were auto-corrected)

It is true that I have associated Paganism with the Nazi Party and especially Himmler's SS. However I DID NOT AND DO NOT mean to suggest that pagans in general are evil. I do believe that those who were associated with the SS(FACT -- Lebensborn class requirement... many lived in lebensborn communities) and many Nazi Party members or their various extension organization members were adherents to a new, Aryan/Nordic, Pagan BELIEF SYSTEM with RADICAL RELIGIOUS-LIKE DEVOTION & COMMITMENT!

I have nothing against Pagans in anyway.... Only a problem with EVIL!!!

The Nazis have nothing to do with it. The fact that a FEW of them were PSEUDO- pagan has nothing to do with it. But you persist in bringing them into this discussion. It would be no different if a group of say, Seventh Day Adventists did something horrible and you brought that religion into this discussion speculating that a ring of pedophiles were using Seventh Day Adventist rituals and molesting and killing children.

This isn't about Nazis. It isn't about Pagans. It isn't about the occult. It isn't about rituals. It isn't about David Nutter Icke's freaking lizard people. It's about the horrific exploitation and abuse of children. Let's not bring our favorite scapegoats and personal wacko suspicions into something that is deadly serious: investigating crimes against children.

originally posted by: s3cz0ne

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: Enderdog
a reply to: s3cz0ne

Is perhaps some of the animus I'm seeing on this thread, because of the use of the term Pagan, in reference to Nazis? I think perhaps the average Christian may not understand that there are many people who do consider themselves Pagans, and hold that belief system as sacred. So using it as a general term, and to imply it is Luciferian can be offensive. I doubt there is much, if any, intent to disparage someone's spiritual beliefs, by folks who simply are unfamiliar with with the terminologies outside whatever faith they were brought up in. I was raised Catholic. And as a kid we were regularly taught that non-Christians were called Pagans, and that further they were at least mistaken, if not downright evil. At any rate....just a passing thought.

You're absolutely right.

--------------------------------------------------------

Would you would agree with that... You are quick to criticize people and demand sources. You did the same with me and (on pg. 3) you decided to respond that "most of what I said was correct". It really baffles me why you have such a problem with a POTENTIAL ritualistic aspect attached to this. I personally have recommended a number of things for you to check out that are very relevant to the U.K. case as they have happened here in the states and everyone knows that U.S.A. and U.K. are great allies(at least at this point... Snowden docs).

I'm guessing that you haven't even bothered to look at Monarch, The Finders, or The Franklin Conspiracy... Let alone the books that I pointed out that explain much of this phenomena and detangle a much of this web. BTW I HAVE DONE THE RESEARCH ON THE ABOVE SO THEREFORE I AM NOT ASKING YOU TO DO IT FOR ME! (had to point that out as the first person who mentioned that people GOOGLE THE FRANKLIN COVER-UP was accused by you of them asking you to do their research for them)
--------------------------------------------------------

I'm not interested in entertaining your unsubstantiated wacko theories aimed at your favorite scapegoats. This subject is far too serious.

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: s3cz0ne

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: Enderdog
a reply to: s3cz0ne

Is perhaps some of the animus I'm seeing on this thread, because of the use of the term Pagan, in reference to Nazis? I think perhaps the average Christian may not understand that there are many people who do consider themselves Pagans, and hold that belief system as sacred. So using it as a general term, and to imply it is Luciferian can be offensive. I doubt there is much, if any, intent to disparage someone's spiritual beliefs, by folks who simply are unfamiliar with with the terminologies outside whatever faith they were brought up in. I was raised Catholic. And as a kid we were regularly taught that non-Christians were called Pagans, and that further they were at least mistaken, if not downright evil. At any rate....just a passing thought.

You're absolutely right.

--------------------------------------------------------

Would you would agree with that... You are quick to criticize people and demand sources. You did the same with me and (on pg. 3) you decided to respond that "most of what I said was correct". It really baffles me why you have such a problem with a POTENTIAL ritualistic aspect attached to this. I personally have recommended a number of things for you to check out that are very relevant to the U.K. case as they have happened here in the states and everyone knows that U.S.A. and U.K. are great allies(at least at this point... Snowden docs).

I'm guessing that you haven't even bothered to look at Monarch, The Finders, or The Franklin Conspiracy... Let alone the books that I pointed out that explain much of this phenomena and detangle a much of this web. BTW I HAVE DONE THE RESEARCH ON THE ABOVE SO THEREFORE I AM NOT ASKING YOU TO DO IT FOR ME! (had to point that out as the first person who mentioned that people GOOGLE THE FRANKLIN COVER-UP was accused by you of them asking you to do their research for them)
--------------------------------------------------------

I'm not interested in entertaining your unsubstantiated wacko theories aimed at your favorite scapegoats. This subject is far too serious.

hmm MY WACKO THEORIES??? really?!?!?! WHAT THE HELL HAVE YOU BROUGHT TO THE TABLE HUH? Opinion? Really?!?!?! At least I've traced a lineage and possible connections citing sources for anyone who is interested and ISN'T TOO LAZY TO DO THEIR OWN RESEARCH! You claim the Nazis are MY FAVORITE SCAPEGOATS? Really? How might that be? The only thing that I have done is cite FACTUAL HISTORY, something that you refuse to do and seem unable of doing. I'm sorry that I like to ACTUALLY connect the dots and don't show up here with ONLY an opinion... Everyone has an opinion, and I am sure everyone knows what they say about opinions.... You have added nothing of any real value to this thread but have instead decided to challenge commenters for sources while providing none of your own. You wreak of a troll and your purpose here is entirely unclear. If you did show up to share your opinion that is all good and well. The only reason I initially responded to you was because another member recommended that you look into the Franklin Coverup, to which you responded that you didn't want to do their research for them. Clearly if they were the one making the recommendation it is fairly safe to assume that they have done their own research and were IN FACT MAKING A RECOMMENDATION FOR YOUR BENEFIT!!!

Again the only thing you seem to be doing on this thread is picking a fight with others although your tone has mellowed in the past couple of pages. BTW I'm not the first to call you out in this thread either. You apparently seem to think that events occur in a vacuum and appear to subscribe to the theory of Cultural Relativism! Guess what?!?! There is a bigger picture and things don't happen in a vacuum!

Lastly, yes, the situation in the U.K. is very important and I am certainly not trying to diminish that. Furthermore I am not blaming this on "my favorite scapegoat"(according to you the Nazis) rather the perpetrators are directly to blame along with their accomplices. Your responses to my posts are almost comical at this point as any reasonably intelligent human being should be able to understand that I am trying to display a historical precedent for PARTICULAR behaviors and I am attempting to show a line of decent. Again, It is all well and good for you to bring YOUR OWN OPINION. IT IS NOT WELL AND GOOD FOR ANYBODY TO BRING THEIR OWN FACTS!

And BTW if any of my facts are wrong I am more than happy to receive a correction and I am more than humble enough to accept it. This isn't a p**S**G contest for me. Frankly the only thing I am interested in is learning more, not winning an Internet argument with a person I've never met.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PLEASE PARDON ANY TYPOS/GRAMMATICAL ERRORS IN MY LAST FEW POSTS - TOUGH TO TYPE ON A TABLET

a reply to: s3cz0ne

Like I said:hysteria.

all the ritual stuff is by the by......an organized pedo ring which used children from group homes for sex parties and blackmail and there are stories of at least one snuff film floating about, probably standard operational procedure for all western intel agencies......has echos of johnny gosch.

they got away with it and they will get away with it again, these people will never change. A greedy sick pig will always be a greedy sick pig. You cain't take the pig out of the mud. IT will always wollow in the mud. It will never change. The police get paid by them, you think that they will catch the molester that pays the cops wages. Yeah, that will change. NOT. If the master of the house pays your wages, the renter will let it slide. FACT. I wonder how many fascist pigs go to heaven. I cain't answer that, only jesus can. Hey england, how's that glass house doing these days. Getting a little cold over there. Thats ok, your queen will keep you all warm. she's good for it, right.

a reply to: Tangerine

Like I said:hysteria.

OH PLEASE!!! LOOK AT THE EVIDENCE: (this isn't anywhere near the full extent of it either)

Monday 22 December 2014

A Labour MP has said that continuing chaos surrounding the Westminster child abuse inquiry makes it look as though the Government does not “want to get to the truth”.

Simon Danczuk said victims would be dismayed at the lack of progress in the probe, and could not help worrying that the litany of mistakes was “deliberate”.

The Home Secretary has indicated that the troubled inquiry panel may be disbanded and replaced after calls from victims' families to give it more powers, potentially causing further delay.

Two whistle-blowers who had information about MPs' involvement in the paedophile ring could have been murdered, Mr Mann told Sky News - a former Lambeth council official named Bulick Forsythe and an unnamed caretaker who allegedly had tapes of "sex parties".

Mr Mann is calling for their "suspicious" deaths to be re-investigated.

Mr Danczuk told the BBC Radio 4 Today programme the situation was a “mess” and people would turn to "direct action" in the absence of satisfaction with Government processes.

“What I suspect will happen, because we are not getting any satisfaction from Government, because we are not moving forward and it has been six months now - documents going missing, chairmen having to stand down and resign, the Wanless whitewash review into lost documents, terms of reference not being appropriate and now the panel being disbanded - I think that people will turn to more direct action and you can hardly blame them," he said.

www.independent.co.uk... 28.html

A SOLDIER with the Household Cavalry arranged depraved sex parties for perverts at which children and animals were abused, a court heard yesterday.

Lance corporal Simon Davies was at the heart of a paedophile ring whose members indulged in group sex, bestiality and rape of girls as young as eight.

www.thesun.co.uk...

A MEMBER of the Queen’s guard at Windsor Castle has been charged with raping a girl under 13. Simon Davies, a 37-year-old Household Cavalry trooper and his primary school assistant wife, Fiona Parsons-Davies, have already been remanded in court. The pair were arrested at their home on the Broomfarm estate, barely two miles from the royal castle, by police probing a feared child-porn ring. The estate houses a number of military families who work at the Queen’s Windsor retreat.

www.mirror.co.uk...

SNP activist Willie McRae uncovered a paedophile ring within the Scottish judiciary before his mysterious death in 1985, one of his oldest friends said last night.

“Willie told me perhaps two or three years before his death that he had come across information on this paedophile ring in the Scottish judiciary. Those were his worlds.

“He was appalled by it. He was aware of sexual abuse going on – there is no doubt about that.
“Whether it was what led to his death, I do not know. I certainly do not believe he took his own life, and I think the only way we’d get to the bottom of what happened is if somebody involved in this came out with a deathbed confession.”
McRae was seen with a briefcase full of papers, which he showed to his friend PC Donald Morrison with the words: “I’ve got them this time.”

Two weeks ago, we revealed that private investigator Iain Fraser – who recently passed away – believed McRae had a dossier on a high-ranking paedophile network. He was said to have made photocopies of the document before he left for the Highlands, which were posted out to a number of close associates.
McRae left Glasgow on Good Friday in 1985 to spend the weekend at his cottage near Dornie, Ross-shire, but was found dead at the wheel of his car the next day.

He had suffered a bullet wound to his head and after a pistol was found near the car, it was ruled that he had committed suicide.

Despite a number of perplexing factors – that two shots were fired, for instance, or that a neat pile of his belongings was found by the side of the road – a Fatal Accident Inquiry was never held.

www.express.co.uk...

An officer with two decades of service claimed his crime squad at a station in central London was shut down because it got too close to the establishment. And a retired sergeant with 30 years’ service said evidence of abuse from a notorious care home was “destroyed” and a detective on the case was discredited by “corrupt politicians”, “corrupt high- ranking officers” and “religious people”. A government worker using the false name Jonathan claimed: “The cover-up began in 1985 when operations were closed for no apparent reason except prominent persons were allegedly ­involved, and again in 1990 and again over the North Wales child abuse.

www.mirror.co.uk...

Additional articles.
www.mirror.co.uk...

www.telegraph.co.uk...

a reply to: Pitou

of course they believe it .. !!!

but, at the risk of them losing their jobs to pursue justice over it.. ?? ~!!!

originally posted by: funkadeliaaaa
a reply to: Tangerine

Like I said:hysteria.

OH PLEASE!!! LOOK AT THE EVIDENCE: (this isn't anywhere near the full extent of it either)

Monday 22 December 2014
....

Evidence is a body of facts that can be used to try and convict someone in a court of law. Let's see how much of that you have in the sections from links you chose to post. I am basing my assessments on the contents of your post. I'm not about to read seven links. I assume if any of them contained actual evidence you would have had the sense to post that part.

First section: Zero evidence: "makes it look as though"; "could not help worrying"; "troubled inquiry panel may be abandoned".

Second section: Zero evidence: "could have been murdered"; "suspicious".

Third section: Zero evidence noted in the section : mentions court testimony about a soldier with the Household Cavalry. Doesn't say what the testimony was or whether it included actual evidence or even whether the soldier was convicted. A soldier is not VIP/British elite and that is the topic of the thread.

Fourth section: Zero evidence noted in the section: mentions a member of the Queen's Guard and his wife charged with raping a 13-year old girl. A member of the Queen's Guard is a soldier not VIP/British elite and that is the topic of the thread. Moreover, there was no mention of a sex ring, just the alleged depraved criminal act of two people.

Fifth section: Zero evidence: second-hand story claim.

Sixth section: Zero evidence but strong allegations from an unnamed retired sergeant and a government worker using a false name. Importantly, no people are named who allegedly participated in the alleged abuse at a care home. Until these people come forward with evidence and name names, it's just unsubstantiated rumor.

Bottom line, you have failed to cite an iota of actual evidence supporting your claim that British VIPs/Elite have engaged in organized pedophile rings. It would seem that you are confused about what constitutes evidence.

If such rings exist, only evidence presented in court will end them and punish the offenders. You certainly don't appear to have any.

a reply to: Tangerine

Evidence is a body of facts that can be used to try and convict someone in a court of law. Let's see how much of that you have in the sections from links you chose to post. I am basing my assessments on the contents of your post. I'm not about to read seven links. I assume if any of them contained actual evidence you would have had the sense to post that part. [/quote[

Witness testimony counts as evidence in a court of law.

originally posted by: funkadeliaaaa
a reply to: Tangerine

Evidence is a body of facts that can be used to try and convict someone in a court of law. Let's see how much of that you have in the sections from links you chose to post. I am basing my assessments on the contents of your post. I'm not about to read seven links. I assume if any of them contained actual evidence you would have had the sense to post that part. [/quote[

Witness testimony counts as evidence in a court of law.

Where's the witness testimony under oath about specifically named British VIPs/Elite running pedophile rings? I see none of it in your posts. And let's not forget that juries weigh evidence and determine the weight it carries.

a reply to: Tangerine

If you want more evidence see this thread:
www.abovetopsecret.com...