A bitcoin powered board

originally posted by: knoledgeispower
a reply to: XPLodER

I'm in agreement with CornShucker, as someone who can barely keep a roof over my head because of illnesses, I wouldn't want to part with any of my money either.

No I don't like the idea of of tipping members. That changes the whole aspect of ATS & it's already massively changing with them asking for cash donations to stay afloat.

Back in the days when I was still a working musician I often found myself in the position of trying to diplomatically explain the difference between desire and the freedom to act. While I never wore a wedding band for fear of losing a finger, the fact that I was married was an integral part of who it was...

a reply to: XPLodER

That was actually one of my first thoughts when I seen the donation tab, kudos and flagged.

originally posted by: knoledgeispower
a reply to: XPLodER

I'm in agreement with CornShucker, as someone who can barely keep a roof over my head because of illnesses, I wouldn't want to part with any of my money either.

No I don't like the idea of of tipping members. That changes the whole aspect of ATS & it's already massively changing with them asking for cash donations to stay afloat.

thank you for your opinion,

i realise change is difficult,

and to your point mabey a single forum where tipping is used?

that way ATS still uses flag and stars, but a sub forum could be used to "thank" or "tip" members who do wish to participate

what do you think?

i certainly would like to have the option of tipping content, while the rest of the boards could stay as they are.

as a second point being able to support ATS with MY choice of payment would be a good start

ps thanks for making me think more.

xploder

a reply to: XPLodER

That still changes the whole point of what ATS was supposed to be.

We were always told that ATS would never ask for donations and now they are. I don't think it is fair to ask for members money because they didn't use the money they had already been receiving to make the upgrades to the site they are needing now or that they didn't save up any of that money for times like this.

originally posted by: knoledgeispower
a reply to: XPLodER

That still changes the whole point of what ATS was supposed to be.

We were always told that ATS would never ask for donations and now they are. I don't think it is fair to ask for members money because they didn't use the money they had already been receiving to make the upgrades to the site they are needing now or that they didn't save up any of that money for times like this.

the point of ATS to me is an inclusive sight where everybody is free to post about the subjects and topics that interest them, i am interested in bitcoin, i would like to be able to show my appriciation to members who share insight, innovation or knowledge of subjects i am not fimilar with.

change is difficult,

ads have paid for the members to be able to use this sight from the first post till now.

it sounds like the mods have no clear idead as to why there revinue stream is interupted,

while we could speculate about the reasons for this or that,

i wounder if any effort or change is worth the cost to keep this place free for members.

after all if this sight was not here how would we have comunity?

i simply wish to explore options that may or maynot have the solution,

think like this,
if the advertisers dont like a certain thread they may insist that it be removed or revinuew may stop,
CENSORSHIP
if the member LIKE OR WANT a certain thread and are willing to donate towards that end
NO CENSORSHIP

do you want to control the direction of the conversation? OR
do we only conversate around topics that are ADVERTISER friendly.

i understand the problem of tiered membership,
i have been reading ATS for over 5 years,
and the last thing i would want is the people with money to have more say,
ie keep the stars and flags to promote the best topics to the top,

but have the option to TIP mods, tip ATS for the servers and electricity and work they put in

i would love to tip the members who made my avatar

and so on

do you see my point?

xploder

Bitcoins are on the decline because people have realised they can't mine them anymore. Also the decentralised currency it was is now owned by a majority.
Roughly 90% of the newly mined coins are owned by less than 1000 people/companies.
Have a look at Rimbit, they seem to have a system that could work better for the masses.

originally posted by: UKWO1Phot
Bitcoins are on the decline because people have realised they can't mine them anymore. Also the decentralised currency it was is now owned by a majority.
Roughly 90% of the newly mined coins are owned by less than 1000 people/companies.
Have a look at Rimbit, they seem to have a system that could work better for the masses.

at some point there will be an equalibium,
when asic design (aplication specific intergrated circuts) are produced the pioneers in chip fab get a head start,
the industry takes time to catch up with the latest designs and methods to optimize the hard ware specific chips,
once the mining hardware manufactures are all using the same best methods the chips will once again turn to domestic use.

someone once said who wouldnt want a heater that pays for itself?

there are parallels in othre areas of hardware like memeroy ect.

at some stage there were just main frames, and the idea that people would have computers in their holmes sounded funny, but here we are.

its easy to miss the technology and its implications if your only interest is $$$$

but interactions between members can be more dynamic if we attempt to think of new ways to fix old problems

xploder

Hey,

The very fine granulations of bitcoins allows for the accounting of very small amounts. When looking at how the competition between Edison and Tesla finished up here, it was being able to put a meter on it that counts. There is not a lot of money in doing thinks like visiting a page, clicking a link or making a comment. Having a financial system that can account for all these little interactions between users and service providers can go some way to managing the overall system.

To get a system that is workable is a big commitment. When trying to link an in game economy with the real world economy there are a lot of challenges and difficulties involved. Bitcoin has already paved some of this road, there are many other variations if the requirements are a little different.

originally posted by: CraftBuilder
You might want to see where bitcoin goes in th near future first....

Bitcoin market

yeah its dropping... 300 bucks a coin, down from 1300 bucks, and up from 2 bucks.

pretty sure.. you have no idea..

Good idea but this may cause a lot of problems and may turn ats into something other than what it was meant to be. I can imagine all these new people coming here posting random interesting things to get tipped, instead of posting their free expertise or knowledge because it's their passion, they will start posting to make some money. Imagine companies signing up to tip people who agree with them, then other users may think they should also go along with that opinion (even if they don't agree with it) just so they can get tipped to. We grumble about lobbying and big companies involved with politics, well we should alsO keep the money out of ats. We should all maybe donate a dollar towards ats, since they need it to keep this going, which we all love since we keep coming back here.

originally posted by: ckhk3
Good idea but this may cause a lot of problems and may turn ats into something other than what it was meant to be.

the same is good, but if funding models change the same may not be possable

I can imagine all these new people coming here posting random interesting things to get tipped, instead of posting their free expertise or knowledge because it's their passion,

interesting..... the suggested change may alter behaviour of posters to "click bait topics" or may skew they type of posts. it does follow that if the economic incentives are too high this may occour .....mmm

they will start posting to make some money. Imagine companies signing up to tip people who agree with them, then other users may think they should also go along with that opinion (even if they don't agree with it) just so they can get tipped to.

the model would have to be resestent to "member with most money wins" if the system is to function,

We grumble about lobbying and big companies involved with politics, well we should alsO keep the money out of ats. We should all maybe donate a dollar towards ats, since they need it to keep this going, which we all love since we keep coming back here.

your anallogy works well,
would a tip limit work?
1 tip a day,
or $1.00 total tips a day ect

would enforced limits help?

all good questions

xploder

originally posted by: kwakakev
Hey,

Hey yourself

The very fine granulations of bitcoins allows for the accounting of very small amounts. When looking at how the competition between Edison and Tesla finished up here, it was being able to put a meter on it that counts.

with micro transactions the cost per user would be low and the total cost per page would be tiny,
but with many page views and lots of members there could be an economy geared towards good posts.

There is not a lot of money in doing thinks like visiting a page, clicking a link or making a comment. Having a financial system that can account for all these little interactions between users and service providers can go some way to managing the overall system.

indeeed the bitcoin blockchain ledger would be secure and auditable by all

To get a system that is workable is a big commitment. When trying to link an in game economy with the real world economy there are a lot of challenges and difficulties involved. Bitcoin has already paved some of this road, there are many other variations if the requirements are a little different.

lol im afraid most of my solutions to problems are complex,
but the systems are already in place and in use elsewhere.
the final micro payment channel software is not very far off from being perfect for page views in tiny amounts that sum to 1 payment per session.

damn its good to see you still around

xploder

originally posted by: sn0rch

originally posted by: CraftBuilder
You might want to see where bitcoin goes in th near future first....

Bitcoin market

yeah its dropping... 300 bucks a coin, down from 1300 bucks, and up from 2 bucks.

pretty sure.. you have no idea..

supply and demand in markets is never predictable until a large scale is achived.

as with any 5 year old tech the liquidity pool is not very deep, and abrupt changes in either supply or demand creates volitility in price.

once the market fills out the stability will remove volitility.

xploder

a reply to: XPLodER

Tip limits are a good idea, didn't think of that one. I think ats would need to work on their glitch with the stars first. If that can't be fixed I wouldn't trust my money with that system. Maybe they can do this a few miles down the road but I think ats is trying to figure out their own money issue right now.

a reply to: XPLodER

It is good to see you around as well

I am still here trying to keep up with it all, chewing away on the bits I can.

How to integrate something like bitcoin into a discussion board was the direction in one project I was working on. While things did not get that far, the basic game plan was to start off with a small pool of money say 1 bit coin. From there it will get divided up at the end of the term, say one year for the first term as it all gets built. Anyone who has some interaction with the website automatically becomes a shareholder and gets a part of that pool. For example someone who just quickly visited the site once may get a millionth of a cent while one of the main contributes might get a few dollars.

How the pool gets divided is very much a business issue. It will also define the culture and discourse as weighing is applied to different options and choices. Just to get things moving start with very small values, market forces will soon sort it all out one way or another.

Spending money is the easy part, so how does the site make it? In taking this path the aim was towards finding and promoting quality work. There are a lot of quality diamonds tucked away in these forums with a vibrant community. Maybe some educational packages could be compiled, or a cable tv series 'the best of ATS'. By having an accounting system that can track who done what and calculate what royalties are fair it helps make such projects possible.

originally posted by: XPLodER

originally posted by: swanne
a reply to: CraftBuilder

You stole the words right out of my mouth.

have you ever read a thread and though i would love to tip them something for there efforts?

Oh, I actually find the idea awesome (I gave you a flag) - my sole concern is Bitcoin's stability.

PS microsoft is now accepting bitcoin,

So do I read. But beween you and me, Microsoft can afford the small instabilities - the whole "we now accept Bitcoins!" might just be a publicity tactic to augment Microsoft's reputation as a "pioneer" corporation, its image as a "geek" and "in the now" company.

A micro payments system is a good plan but sorry I don't trust BTC because it's value acts like a share price and is not stable like it needs to be a currency and I have read that something like 35% of people buying coins are geting scammed.

Model that into your profit and loss account if you are new to BTC

Hate them as i do, Paypal would get my money first

It is quite wise to be careful of Bitcoins progress, it has been attacked and crashed a few times. I got caught up in the latest mtgox.com crash. It did provide an easy way to transact between the bank and bitcoins. Looking at their website sounds like they are looking for creditors. Not really sure what to do to make a claim so if anyone has some information about it that would be good.

I am not sure how it has been progressing doing all the back accounting through the Bitcoins ledger. Some unknown account owners making all the tracking and accountability difficult, otherwise appears like there is some good progress.

originally posted by: ckhk3
a reply to: XPLodER

Tip limits are a good idea, didn't think of that one. I think ats would need to work on their glitch with the stars first. If that can't be fixed I wouldn't trust my money with that system. Maybe they can do this a few miles down the road but I think ats is trying to figure out their own money issue right now.

i think you will find that while each users star and flag count is variable,
the threads themselves are quite acurite in count,

the time to discuss options are when problems strike,
i am a problem solver, as such a current problem provides an oportunity to delve deep into the complex nature of human interaction and finacial innovation.

a small single forum experiment might not pay the bills in the first week but might show the way for next year.

this convosation would have not be started if there had not been a request for assistence.

my way of helping is not conventional but does make sence to me

xploder

originally posted by: kwakakev
a reply to: XPLodER

It is good to see you around as well

merry christmas my friend

I am still here trying to keep up with it all, chewing away on the bits I can.

my last project was very time consuming i am glad its finalized

How to integrate something like bitcoin into a discussion board was the direction in one project I was working on. While things did not get that far, the basic game plan was to start off with a small pool of money say 1 bit coin. From there it will get divided up at the end of the term, say one year for the first term as it all gets built. Anyone who has some interaction with the website automatically becomes a shareholder and gets a part of that pool. For example someone who just quickly visited the site once may get a millionth of a cent while one of the main contributes might get a few dollars.

we could find an initial liquidity pool (donations) and do it all in the backround....mmm
users could be sheilded from the complexity and an automated process could take care of accounting
nice. i like the feeling of stake in the site it would produce

How the pool gets divided is very much a business issue. It will also define the culture and discourse as weighing is applied to different options and choices. Just to get things moving start with very small values, market forces will soon sort it all out one way or another.

this was my hope too, that market forces would sort the wheat from the chaff,
without the incentive skewing the discourse.

Spending money is the easy part, so how does the site make it?

supply and demand, the flag system is used to promote the wheat to the top,
seams like a reasonable thing that a flag still promotes threads and those flags could be too ATS as funding,
another method is to have ATS bitcoin only products, mugs shirts ect
or smaller items tht can only be bought with ATS rewards.

have you seen redit gold?

In taking this path the aim was towards finding and promoting quality work. There are a lot of quality diamonds tucked away in these forums with a vibrant community. Maybe some educational packages could be compiled, or a cable tv series 'the best of ATS'. By having an accounting system that can track who done what and calculate what royalties are fair it helps make such projects possible.

digital goods exclusive to ats would be a good fit,
maby custom designed avatars...
so we promte different aspects of ATS,
the video producers,
the grafic artists,
the hard working thread ops and ect.

on your point the flag system does a good job of promoting quality threads to the larger comunity,
maby a hidden incentive system that if your thread gets top of site you get an exclusive reward in exchange for the bits?

just thinking out loud


xploder