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Obama to Announce Easing in U.S.-Cuba Relations

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posted on Dec, 18 2014 @ 06:45 PM
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originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
Then again, why do you want to believe your TOURIST Canadian friends meanwhile also wanting to dismiss Canadians who have actually done their due diligence in trying to understand some of the situation in the island?...


Because that's YOUR reality(maybe). Not reality. You can see NO improvement there. There is. It's been pointed out. Thus I will stick to those that have been there recently and have NO political agenda. Than those that would keep the status quo because of hatred.




posted on Dec, 18 2014 @ 06:46 PM
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a reply to: ParasuvO

Because the regime doesn't use the money to help Cubans. It never has.

Cuba has had business relations with Canada, Europe, and other countries, yet none of the revenue from those businesses have ever helped the Cuban people. What makes you think it would be different if more money is given to the communist dictatorship?



posted on Dec, 18 2014 @ 06:51 PM
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a reply to: intrepid

So again, you will continue believing your rich Canadian friends who live like kings and queens in Cuba meanwhile claiming that those who will tell you different "are doing it for hatred"?...

I have family in Cuba right now, including 2 biological sisters, but you want to claim my views about the regime is because of hatred?...

It's obvious people like you simply don't want to accept the reality. BTW, I never said things haven't changed since the 50s, but what people like you are claiming is that "things aren't that bad in Cuba" which is completely false.



posted on Dec, 18 2014 @ 06:55 PM
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originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
BTW, I never said things haven't changed since the 50s, but what people like you are claiming is that "things aren't that bad in Cuba" which is completely false.


50's? When Cuba threw out the corporations? I might have, not really, I don't buy political BS, bought the Cuban Missile Crisis crap but this goes back to Cuba kicking out the corps. Thanks for pointing out where you come from. Gotcha.



posted on Dec, 18 2014 @ 07:05 PM
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a reply to: intrepid

Look, I am not trying to insult you or your friends. But ask any regular Cuban in the island, and they will tell you tourists there are rich people. Most won't tell you bad things about the regime because there are communist snitches in every block in Cuba, and when there are tourists there the regime makes sure to keep up the pretenses. The regime will tell you as a tourist that you should stay within the limits set for tourists, and if you get beyond that point they won't be able to protect you. Few tourists will go beyond that point, and those who do are closely watched to make sure they are not "American spies trying to bring down the regime".


This goes from way back not long after the castros took power. They made sure they had snitches in every block. They do this in one of two ways. First, they have some die hard communists who are part of the communist party and get bonuses for being one. Or they release criminals from the Cuban prisons and turn them into snitches who have to keep providing information to the regime in return for being out of jail.


These snitches will inform the local police if they see "strange" gatherings of Cubans. if they see too many people going into a building, or if they see, or hear any Cuban speaking out against the regime.





edit on 18-12-2014 by ElectricUniverse because: correct and add comment.



posted on Dec, 18 2014 @ 07:10 PM
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originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
This goes from way back not long after the castros took power.


THAT is my point dude. YOU are looking at the past. YOU are listening to what you want to hear. It's 2014. Raul is making progress. It's been pointed out. Ignore it if you wish.



posted on Dec, 18 2014 @ 07:17 PM
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originally posted by: intrepid


THAT is my point dude. YOU are looking at the past. YOU are listening to what you want to hear. It's 2014. Raul is making progress. It's been pointed out. Ignore it if you wish.


The majority of those changes are simply for aesthetic purposes for foreigners to believe. Again, do tell me, how does it help a regular Cuban that there are more business opportunities when first you have to be either a rich foreigner who abides by the communist regime rules, or you have to be a high ranking member of the communist regime?

Not to mention how much money you must be able to provide for such a business which most Cubans, even doctors, can't provide. If the majority of Cubans can't afford to buy or rent a hotel room, how does it help them that the regime now "supposedly" allows them to do so?

I know it is 2014, right now I have family there and the knowledge I have about the "changes" happening in Cuba comes directly from what my family has been able to tell us.

YOU, don't want to understand that in such a communist dictatorship, it is very easy to fool most foreigners who just go there as tourists.


edit on 18-12-2014 by ElectricUniverse because: add comment.



posted on Dec, 18 2014 @ 07:31 PM
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originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
YOU, don't want to understand that in such a communist dictatorship, it is very easy to fool most foreigners who just go there as tourists.


I don't want to listen to hate from someone that doesn't know where the wind blows today. You can't fool hundreds of tourists. Like I said earlier. Ignored.



posted on Dec, 18 2014 @ 07:49 PM
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originally posted by: intrepid


I don't want to listen to hate from someone that doesn't know where the wind blows today. You can't fool hundreds of tourists. Like I said earlier. Ignored.


Ignore all you want, but you just proved my point. You just want to believe an illusion that your tourist friends who never experienced life as a Cuban would tell you and want to ignore what most Cubans and Cuban-Americans who are out of the island, and even those who dare to speak against the dictatorship in the island want to tell you. Heck, you even want to ignore Canadians and other tourists who, unlike your friends, have actually tried to understand the reality of Cuba and life there.


edit on 18-12-2014 by ElectricUniverse because: add comment.



posted on Dec, 18 2014 @ 07:52 PM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse

No prob dude. I will leave this with those that have been there. The reader can decide for themselves whether to listen to out dated hate or that Cuba is moving in the right direction.



posted on Dec, 18 2014 @ 07:52 PM
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Anyway, the question still stands. Why now?

If Obama and his administration truly intended to do this, why wait until now?... Why wait until the majority of Congress is Republican, which he knows will most probably not pass this?...

Why didn't Obama and his administration do this when Democrats had a majority of Congress and the Senate? Yet he wants to do this now that the majority is Republican? hummm...



edit on 18-12-2014 by ElectricUniverse because: add comment.



posted on Dec, 18 2014 @ 07:57 PM
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a reply to: intrepid

Yeah, the readers can decide for themselves. Those who want to listen what rich tourists who live in hotels and don't get to live as Cubans have to say, or a Cuban-American who to this day still has family in the island and never stayed in Cuba in the rich hotels that your tourists friends stay at... Then there are the plethora of evidence showing how wrong your tourist friends are, including other tourists who have actually TRIED to live as Cubans and have made an effort in really understanding the situation there...


edit on 18-12-2014 by ElectricUniverse because: add comment.



posted on Dec, 18 2014 @ 08:07 PM
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originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
Those who want to listen what rich tourists who live in hotels and don't get to live as Cubans have to say, or a Cuban-American who to this day still has family in the island and never stayed in Cuba in the rich hotels that your tourists friends stay....


Assuming that is true and I don't concede that.... isn't it sweet, from your perspective, in the States. Let the embargo continue. Not affecting your T-bone steak. Do you REALLY care about the people of Cuba or just living the old days and spewing that hate? F Castro's.



posted on Dec, 18 2014 @ 08:11 PM
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Well, I have decided this Obama "New Deal" is designed to *support* the Marxist government of Cuba, not change it.

I also do not believe that average Cuban Citizens will benefit.

I know 2 people recently visited Cuba. Both say the tourist areas are completely different from the Citizen zones. They spent time in both areas.



for reference:|> Cuba 2013 Crime and Safety Report



posted on Dec, 18 2014 @ 08:13 PM
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a reply to: intrepid

How the heck does it not affect me when I have FAMILY in Cuba to this day?... My grandmother is still there, I have 2 biological sisters there, nieces, nephews, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc. To this day we have to help them whenever we can... I keep in contact with my family.

Again, can you tell us how are you aware of what happens in Cuba?... Please tell us again?... BTW, please do tell us how many family members do you have to help in Cuba?...


edit on 18-12-2014 by ElectricUniverse because: add comment.



posted on Dec, 19 2014 @ 08:41 AM
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originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
Again, can you tell us how are you aware of what happens in Cuba?...
You'll note that in another thread, I directed some verbiage towards you acknowledging your emotional engagement towards the subject. There is another factor at play here, though. Correct me if I am wrong, but you have a fairly right-wing attitude generally...which is to say that we would be in disagreement even in discussions of American, and yes, Canadian politics as well.

The point is, that you do see the world through a particular lens that is not shared by all, and it colours all you see. Yes you have family in Cuba, and that gives you a legitimate perspective. But, as Intrepid has bravely pointed out, others have eyes and ears, and hearts and brains If they bear witness to improvements in Cuba, then they are entitled to express their opinions without being verbally bullied. There's a middle ground here, folks...lets seek to find it, just as Castro and Obama are doing. The embargo is so 1960...

Disclaimer: Written on a Chinese keyboard, without endorsing World Communism.



posted on Dec, 19 2014 @ 09:01 AM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Hi, I've read most of your posts, and they are confusing to me. In my eyes you are building a case, and a strong one, for the embargo to be lifted. You talk endlessly about how wretched things are in Cuba; crime, thugs, poverty; bigotry, hatred.

And these don't exist......... where?

I saw the vid you put up which interviewed the "thugs". (Kids with wild outdated hair cuts drinking booze right out of the bottle.) One of them said there were 80 of them in the whole country. You do know you can go to any large city in the U.S., and find that many thugs or more on one block?

All the talk about the poverty, suffering, defiance, just adds strength to my resolve that we should "buck up" and let them join in the glorious economical fun we all enjoy. (Kidding).

Hotel builders, resort makers, business firms... are frothing at the mouth to get in there. (Although I suspect they will want to make it another China.. in terms of tough labor and cheap wages.) But imagine how much better they will do with a steady income. Might clear up some of the poverty/crime right away.

Even unwittingly, you are making a good case for it!



posted on Dec, 19 2014 @ 09:31 AM
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And another thing! hehe.

Have I been? No. Will I go? Absolutely.

Will I venture off into the impoverished areas? Probably not. I want to stay in a nice hotel, eat in nice restaurants, have my room cleaned when I'm out, and be waited on. I'll be on vacaction, after all, and I do all that junk when I'm home. When I charter my fishing boat I want deck hands to be by my side to help pull in my big sport fish once I hook it. yep. sure do. Make no bones about it, as they say.

And what do all those folks get for helping me? Money. They get money they would not otherwise have. To spend as they choose, further boosting their economy. It's a win-win.



posted on Dec, 19 2014 @ 10:16 AM
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I can't see how this would be a bad thing, blockades really just affect the poor in any case.

Some people say the U.S. shouldn't trade or allow trade with dictatorships, but doesn't the U.S. do that all the time, as long as those dictatorships are allies? Then there's all this stuff going through social media about American fast food chains popping up everywhere. Doubt that will happen just like that, it's a matter of normalization of diplomatic relationship and resumption of trade, not a return to the days of Batista. Although I'm sure certain political forces would like that too.



posted on Dec, 19 2014 @ 06:11 PM
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a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

The problem is that no matter what I, or any other Cuban-American or Cuban tells you, or even Canadians and other tourists who actually have cared to really find out at least some of the truth about Cuba have to tell you. You simply won't change your mind, just like intrepid, and others. You just want to keep believing the fairy tale woven by a communist dictatorship.

If you, a tourist, were to ask Cubans in the streets of Cuba how they feel about the system, they will tell you "it's marvelous", but they tell you that because they are AFRAID. They can immediately get sent to jail, beaten and even killed for speaking out against the government, and more so to a tourist.

You, in that other thread were claiming that Cuba has more in common with the U.S. than with North Korea, which shows how much you know about the realities of Cuba.

In North Korea it would be the same way. If a foreigner were to tell North Koreans in the streets that he/she was going to film them and for them to tell the truth about North Korea, the majority won't tell you a thing. Because at the end of the day, you as a tourist, will go back to your comfortable house in Canada, with your fridge full of food, and without fear of being imprisoned, or beaten, or even disappeared for daring to speak out against an oppressive regime. Yet the Cuban, and the North Korean can get their food rations taken away, can be beaten to a pulp, imprisoned, and killed, not to mention what could happen to their family for speaking out against their communist regimes. That still happens to this day in Cuba and in North Korea.

Do you not understand that all these "changes" that supposedly are being put in place in Cuba are merely for fooling the world community?... What good does it do to most Cubans that the government allows them to buy a hotel room, or some other business, when first of all they barely get enough money to pay for food, and living expenses?... Even most doctors in Cuba can't afford to buy such properties. The few that do have connections with the communist party, and are hard core communists willing to sell their own people to live better than the rest of the Cubans in the island.

it was only early this year that the pay to Cuban doctors who have more than one specialty was raised from $30 a month to about $60. The rest of the Cuban people get a lot less from $10 U.S.D. to about $20 a month or so.

Unlike you my opinion on politics has been shaped for what I have experienced, what I have seen, and what happens to my family in Cuba. You, and some others would not change yours no-matter what.

I wonder how you would react if your own sisters were begging you to get them out of a communist dictatorship, and some foreigners were telling you "things aren't that bad in Cuba"... A tourist that all he did was live in his expensive hotels, and toured Cuba through the "tourist sections" in which most regular Cubans are not allowed in, and only those working for the hotel can and when they talk to you they do it from a script and for their own security and that of their families.

So far, what you and many others keep doing is deny that which you don't even want to understand.




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