Obama to Announce Easing in U.S.-Cuba Relations

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

I know how bad it is, I have a close acquaintance that went two summers ago, with a group of teachers, she said conditions were deplorable.

She couldn't believe how poverty stricken they were, she is also a liberal and Obama supporter, maybe she thought Moore was being truthful.

I just keep my mouth shut

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Sorry, you broke my propaganda meter. Do I listen to propaganda? Do I listen to hundreds that have been there? Are you saying that ALL those tourists never saw these humanitarian infractions? The WORLD is oblivious and your perception of Cuba is the only reality?

Your propaganda meter is obviously not calibrated at all because you are actually believing the real propaganda...

As for "do you listen to the hundreds that have been there"?...

Again, what is it that you don't understand, you want to ignore what Cubans have to tell you, and instead you want to believe tourists who never live as a Cuban... who live in modernized hotels and go to hospitals reserved for tourists and for the high ranking brass of the communist dictatorship...

If it was up to you you would also believe that North Korea is an awesome place to live at... North Korea and Cuba a communist dictatorship?... LIES, or so would claim "intrepid" among some other foreigners who want to ignore any evidence that contradicts their view...

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

oh, you mean the people/aka tourists who spent most of their time in tourist designated areas and don't get to live in Cuba as a Cuban?...

Exactly, my acquaintance got to get really up close and personal, was a real eye opener for her,

originally posted by: FlyersFan
I was actually at the White House this afternoon. There were about 75 protesters out front laying in the road and holding anti-Cuba signs. They were shouting stuff in some foreign language ... not sure which one. I was thinking .. Cuba?? I get home and find out Obama did his Cuba thing so it makes sense now.

You were at the White House today? ZOMG GOVERNMENT AGENT CONFIRMED.

Joking, joking. What was it like? I've never been to the Oval Office. Something about no-fly list this and terror watch list that.

Okay on topic now: Yes there are still humanitarian issues with Cuba. With the lessening of our trade restrictions I think we'll probably see conditions start to improve for the average Cuban.

The point being, is that if after 50 years of an embargo, the nation has not changed, then it is time to try something different and maybe doing something novel like helping out economically may have a better chance of succeeding faster than isolation.

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

oh, you mean the people/aka tourists who spent most of their time in tourist designated areas and don't get to live in Cuba as a Cuban?...

Exactly, my acquaintance got to get really up close and personal, was a real eye opener for her,

Unfortunately not a lot of people will even believe you Stormdancer. For many years in these forums I have posted about my experiences in Cuba, as a Cuban, and mostly I have been called "an American spy", a liar, and an American propagandist of course, etc, etc...

a reply to: sdcigarpig

Except for the fact that even before the embargo Cuba was made into a hellhole by the communist regime. Opening relations with Cuba will not improve the situation there. You will see a lot of propaganda, and more so when the Obama administration will probably play along when "scripted changes" suddenly seem to appear in Cuba. it will all be a script. the only way it will change is with the complete dissolution of the communist regime, and that will not happen with open relations with...."the communist regime"...

I am not going to reply to any given persons propaganda because they aren't going to be moved. The reader can decide their own opinion. I AM saying though that I've talked to many people that have been to Cuba DON'T see what is put out by American propaganda. Hundreds. No, really, hundreds. Canadians spend a lot of time and money in Cuba. I'd go if I could afford a cheap holiday.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Opening relations with Cuba will not improve the situation there.

You don't know that with any certainty in the least. Why be such a defeatist? We won't know for a while, and we certainly will never know until we try.

a reply to: intrepid

Riiight, so instead of actually looking at all the evidence you want to proclaim that you, who have never been to Cuba, know what is happening there, and someone like me who was born there and lived as a Cuban, and to this day has family in Cuba, including 2 biological sisters, is lying... But of course, you want to claim I am the propagandist...

You want to listen to the younger generation of Cubans?...

Here is what some punks in Havana, Cuba have to say and what happens when REAL CUBANS speak out and they are seen by the communist thugs.




BTW, not all Cubans are punks, but in that video you can see some "truth" about the situation in Cuba.

BWHAHAHAAAA!

I hate this guy, but hell I will throw a bone here.

Shep Smith wonders: Is America about to “ruin” Cuba?

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

So my friends are liars? They have NO political investment in this.

BTW, I am nto a punk, and not a rapper either, even though I have posted videos of Cuban punks, and rappers among others who have tried to speak as of the truth of Cuba.

The government of Cuba provides more alcohol, than food, and it is for a reason. It is a way to control as much as possible the population.

As for the claim that Cuba was a lot worse before the revolution? Even under the dictatorship of Batista Cuba was better than under the communist (Marxist/Leninist) dictatorship of Cuba.

Here is a video copilation of older photos from Cuba, and some information from Cuba before the communist revolution.

USAHavana

Published on Sep 21, 2012


Ignorance (usually willful) of conditions in pre-Castro Cuba, of Fidel Castro's background, of U.S.-Cuba relations pre-1960 all contribute to the cliché-ridden Castro legend. With the media wallowing in a Castro-cliché orgy over these hideous past decades let's examine the truth about pre-Castro Cuba with IMAGES which do speak a thousand words!

In 1958, only 7 percent of invested capital in Cuba was American, and less than one-third of Cuba's sugar output (its main crop) was by U.S. companies. Cuba had a grand total of six gambling Casino's at the time. (Gulfport/Biloxi Mississippi has double that number today.) Cuba's Gross Domestic product in 1957 was $2.7 billion. Cuba's foreign receipts in 1957 were about $750 million--of which tourism made up only $60 million. Gambling was a small fraction of this $60 million. Exactly two Havana hotels were mob-owned (compare this to Las Vegas history.)

In 1958, Cuba had approximately 10,000 prostitutes. Today an estimated 150,000 ply their trade on the desperate island, many as young as 14.

And to cap it all off: in 1950 more Cubans (out of a population of six million) vacationed in the U.S., than Americans (out of 200 million) vacationed in Cuba. At that time, Cubans didn't come to the U.S. in any great numbers to settle. In fact as a percentage of population, Cuba took in more immigrants (primarily from Europe) in the early 20th century than did the U.S. In the 1950's, when Cubans were perfectly free to emigrate with all their property and U.S. visas were issued to them for the asking, fewer Cubans lived in the U.S. than Americans lived in Cuba.

A report from the Geneva-based International Labor Organization that documented the following in 1957: "One feature of the Cuban social structure is a large middle class," it starts. "Cuban workers are more unionized (proportional to the population) than U.S. workers. The average wage for an 8 hour day in Cuba in 1957 is higher than for workers in Belgium, Denmark, France and Germany. Cuban labor receives 66.6 per cent of gross national income. In the U.S. the figure is 70 per cent, in Switzerland 64 per cent. 44 per cent of Cubans are covered by Social legislation, a higher percentage than in the U.S."

An infant mortality rate that plummeted from 13th lowest in the world in 1958 (lower than in Germany, France, Japan, Israel among many other first world nations) during the unspeakable Batista era to 40th today, that finds most of the nations behind it in 1958 now ahead of it -- this rate qualifies as an "achievement" in the lexicon of news agencies that have earned a Havana bureau.
In the 1950's this writer's parents paid $3.50 a month to a private-sector HMO for full health care coverage for their entire family.

For Cuba's indigent (or those who preferred buying a couple bottles of Rum or lottery tickets with their $3.50) the unspeakable Batista regime maintained the Calixto García, Reina Mercedes, Emergencias, Hospital de Maternidad, and El Infantil hospitals -- all providing what socialists term free health care, in the manner of New Orleans Charity Hospital.

Let those who have eyes, see for themselves...those who have brains, use them!

www.youtube.com...

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Yup. Put that up against the people in this thread that have actually been there lately.

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

So my friends are liars? They have NO political investment in this.

No, they are deceived. They don't get to live as Cubans, all they see is the "script" for tourists. There are entire sections of Cuba that are reserved only for tourists and employees who work for the communist regime and don't allow regular Cubans in there to keep up the pretenses.

I recently posted a video of 3 foreign women who went to Cuba to see if it was true that Cubans were living in a bad economy. They tried to live with the money a Cuban uses. BTW, because they are foreigners, it is easier for them to get food than it is for Cubans.



Watch the video to the end to see their conclusions.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

You can fool a few. You can't fool hundreds. And this is just Canucks. Cuba is a destination for many nationalities. Go there. You might have to go through another country but do it and then come back and talk to us.

AS long as they don't hold Grenada against us ,cool.
It's about time really.

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

So my friends are liars? They have NO political investment in this.

Nobody said that they are liars but comparing sunny beaches and luxurious hotels coupled with spa's and good food WITH oppression and every-day trying to survive the next day - doesn't really work.

I been to Cuba and we been warned multiple times not to leave the zoned tourist area for any reason however I had the chance to do a local tour and sure it was cool to see the old cars and older buildings however the keyword is "old" - there is almost no investment in infrastructure - everything seems to be hold together with make-shift solutions - but that's why Americans travel to Europe as well to see "old" buildings, right?

Would you want to live in a building that is 70 years old, invested with rats, half-working utilities, very limited supplies, etc?

Probably not, but you don't see that as a tourist - all you see is the cool old buildings and how the people smile in your faces because that's all what they really have left - they are used to this environment by now - born into it - they don't know better. All this bla-bla from Obama today is only giving more money, power and resources to the already rich leadership of Cuba .. nothing will change for the people living there! I don't believe it will be worse than before and you may see some new park or school built - but for the every day person? not a chance!

It's kind of sad to see people here to play down the suffering of the cuban people while never been there and only hear the awesome stories from their friends who had a chance to get there.

a reply to: intrepid

You are obviously not reading what I have stated.

First of all, I was born in Cuba and have lived as a Cuban. Second of all, I have been there and stayed with my family in Cuba in my family's house and not in the modern hotels your friends stayed at.

I got to see one of my aunts cry when she saw the "diplotiendas" (that's what stores that are reserved for tourists are called) She cried because she saw these stores full to the brink yet her sons and daughter, and our entire family there don't get to see so much food or items that are taken from granted in capitalist countries.

a reply to: intrepid

BTW, the video of those three women who tried to live for a week with the money and "rations" a single Cuban gets for a month could not do it. Those women are Canadians. So what, are you saying they are lying too?

According to you, I, and other Cubans and Cuban-Americans are lying, the videos that have been "smuggled' from Cuba are all propaganda, and you only believe what your friends tell you which lived as tourists and only got to see the script written for tourists to keep with the pretenses.

Are you really asking yourself who is being deceived?