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Obama to Announce Easing in U.S.-Cuba Relations

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posted on Dec, 19 2014 @ 06:37 PM
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originally posted by: ladyinwaiting

Hi, I've read most of your posts, and they are confusing to me. In my eyes you are building a case, and a strong one, for the embargo to be lifted. You talk endlessly about how wretched things are in Cuba; crime, thugs, poverty; bigotry, hatred.

And these don't exist......... where?


Hello, let me ask you something. Do you get imprisoned, beaten, or can your "food ration cards" be taken away from you by the government where you are from for simply speaking about freedom, and how bad things are in your country? Can that government threaten to do the same to your family for you trying to speak out?... I am not even talking about any violent revolt, but simply asking for freedom. To be able to speak out without fear of reprisal from the government.

Are there injustices in other areas of the world? Sure there are, but you can't compare what happens in Cuba to what happens in Canada, or the U.S. Cuba has more in common with North Korea than it does with either Canada, or the U.S.


If you think what I have said so far is building a case in favor to lift the embargo, then you are not listening to what I have said.

How does it help the Cuban people for the communist regime to receive more money, when that money is not going to help the people?... It NEVER HAS...



The communist regime has had business relations with Canada, many European countries and countries from latin America, and that money has never helped the Cuban people... That money is used to keep the oppressive communist dictatorship in power, and to "spread communism" to other nations, to send communists who try to spread propaganda from the regime to change the opinion of foreigners about Cuba. It is obvious that so far it has worked.



originally posted by: ladyinwaiting

I saw the vid you put up which interviewed the "thugs". (Kids with wild outdated hair cuts drinking booze right out of the bottle.) One of them said there were 80 of them in the whole country. You do know you can go to any large city in the U.S., and find that many thugs or more on one block?



First of all, I don't condone their behavior, but I was showing how many different types of Cubans, those who dare, try to tell people some of the realities that happens in the island. In Cuba it is easier to get alcohol, than to find food, and I explained why. It is a way to give people a vice that is easy for the communist regime to control, hence to control a lot of people.



originally posted by: ladyinwaiting

All the talk about the poverty, suffering, defiance, just adds strength to my resolve that we should "buck up" and let them join in the glorious economical fun we all enjoy. (Kidding).



And you are not understanding that it is a communist dictatorship that wants to keep people in poverty, with barely enough food in their stomachs and with no liberties whatsoever. Look at North Korea, it is the same thing. If the government of North Korea gets money, it doesn't help the people... It only gives more power to the communist regime... In Cuba it is the same thing.




originally posted by: ladyinwaiting
Hotel builders, resort makers, business firms... are frothing at the mouth to get in there. (Although I suspect they will want to make it another China.. in terms of tough labor and cheap wages.) But imagine how much better they will do with a steady income. Might clear up some of the poverty/crime right away.

Even unwittingly, you are making a good case for it!


Again, how is the regular Cuban going to be able to afford to be part of such business when the average Cuban gets paid $10-$20 or $30 U.S.D. a MONTH?... Even doctors, who recently got a raise in their checks only get now about $60 U.S.D. a month... Last year Cuban doctors were only paid about $30 U.S.D. a month.

ALL Cuban jobs are government jobs. The government controls the food, the jobs, and almost everything else. The only thing they don't have total control over is the black market.




edit on 19-12-2014 by ElectricUniverse because: add comment.




posted on Dec, 19 2014 @ 06:46 PM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse


And you are not understanding that it is a communist dictatorship that wants to keep people in poverty, with barely enough food in their stomachs and with no liberties whatsoever. Look at North Korea, it is the same thing. If the government of North Korea gets money, it doesn't help the people... It only gives more power to the communist regime... In Cuba it is the same thing.


I understand and my intention is not to be contentious. But, feeling as strongly about this as you do, you might be unaware that Obama is negotiating with the Cuban government, that the people who will do the work, will be paid by the firms that hire them? That the money will go directly to them, and bypass the government thieves?

Without that agreement, none of this might go through.



posted on Dec, 19 2014 @ 06:46 PM
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originally posted by: ladyinwaiting
And another thing! hehe.

Have I been? No. Will I go? Absolutely.

Will I venture off into the impoverished areas? Probably not. I want to stay in a nice hotel, eat in nice restaurants, have my room cleaned when I'm out, and be waited on. I'll be on vacaction, after all, and I do all that junk when I'm home. When I charter my fishing boat I want deck hands to be by my side to help pull in my big sport fish once I hook it. yep. sure do. Make no bones about it, as they say.

And what do all those folks get for helping me? Money. They get money they would not otherwise have. To spend as they choose, further boosting their economy. It's a win-win.


And that's the reality of most tourists. Even intrepid himself stated that his concern about Cuba was being able to afford to pay for a vacation in Cuba with his wife...

At the end of the day most tourists don't care about what happens in Cuba. Heck, it is a fact that many tourists just go to Cuba to take advantage of the situation of Cubans... To get cheap prostitutes, or a cheap vacation while not really caring that they are taking advantage of the Cuban people.



posted on Dec, 19 2014 @ 06:52 PM
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a reply to: ladyinwaiting

So, could you tell me why if Obama, and his administration really wanted this, why are they trying to do it now that the majority of Congress and the Senate is Republican?...

Unless Obama becomes a dictator by decree he can't make this happen. he needs congress to pass this, and with the majority being Republicans it almost certainly won't happen.

Why not do it when Democrats had a majority of both?

BTW, did you even know that in the deal that Obama did, he released 3 of the 5 Cuban spies, and at least one of them who was proven to have been complicit in the killing of 3 Americans and a legal U.S. resident in 1996? In exchange the communist regime released a contractor who had never killed or tried to kill anyone, much less in Cuba.


edit on 19-12-2014 by ElectricUniverse because: add comment.



posted on Dec, 19 2014 @ 06:52 PM
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originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
Even intrepid himself stated that his concern about Cuba was being able to afford to pay for a vacation in Cuba with his wife...


I didn't say that. I've been separated for over 4 years. My concern for Cuba is that OLD hatred will continue to harm the people that live there.



posted on Dec, 19 2014 @ 06:53 PM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse

So you don't believe they have any capacity for change whatsoever? Because I do. People can change. Maybe even governments too, who knows? I don't want to give up the idea for progress. At least let them try, yes?



posted on Dec, 19 2014 @ 06:57 PM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Of course I think Obama's movements and actions at this time are strictly motivated by his desire to establish his legacies. It's something he's wanted to do. Time is growing short.



posted on Dec, 19 2014 @ 06:59 PM
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originally posted by: ladyinwaiting
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

So you don't believe they have any capacity for change whatsoever? Because I do. People can change. Maybe even governments too, who knows? I don't want to give up the idea for progress. At least let them try, yes?


Live in Cuba, as a Cuban, then tell me whether or not the dictatorship can really change with it still in power. Live in North Korea, as a North Korean and then tell me things can change there too with the dictatorship still in power.



posted on Dec, 19 2014 @ 07:04 PM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Yikes! It would never cross my mind to go to NK. They would put me in prison instantly!

I see how passionate you are about this, and I also see you have substantial reasons. *However*, suppose we did lift the embargo, and this vicious Communist regime, usurped all the earned income, and became richer themselves, while more punishing of it's citizens.

The embargo could then be reinstalled.



posted on Dec, 19 2014 @ 07:08 PM
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Some people say different....

Castro daughter: US 'dreaming' if they think Cuba will return to capitalism

Does this mean the Cuban Governmant will continue on with oppression?

Hmmm.



posted on Dec, 19 2014 @ 07:11 PM
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originally posted by: ladyinwaiting
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Yikes! It would never cross my mind to go to NK. They would put me in prison instantly!

I see how passionate you are about this, and I also see you have substantial reasons. *However*, suppose we did lift the embargo, and this vicious Communist regime, usurped all the earned income, and became richer themselves, while more punishing of it's citizens.

The embargo could then be reinstalled.



And then the communist dictatorship would have enough money to keep a stronger hold on the Cuban people, and to keep the dictatorship alive for another 54 years.



posted on Dec, 19 2014 @ 07:15 PM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Okay then! The Cuban people might as well go bury themselves in the sand! There is no way out. No hope. Despair and deprivation is all eternal.



posted on Dec, 19 2014 @ 07:16 PM
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originally posted by: ladyinwaiting
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Yikes! It would never cross my mind to go to NK. They would put me in prison instantly!

...



BTW, in Cuba you can also be detained as a foreigner if you are caught trying to show the truth about Cuba.



The arrest of two Czech women puts further strain on Czech-Cuban relations
02-02-2006 14:40 | Daniela Lazarová

Relations between the Czech Republic and Cuba have been strained for some time, after a number of diplomatic spats. Tensions between the two states have risen further since the arrest last week of two Czech women - including former Miss Czech Republic Helena Houdova - while they were taking photographs of a slum area.

The two Czech women were detained by police as they were taking photographs of a poverty ridden district in Havana. "There was a lot of shouting as we were dragged off - and one of the officers shouted that we were terrorists", Helena Houdova said later. She and her psychologist friend Mariana Kroftova made the trip to Havana to ascertain how children on the island could benefit from their charity work. Mariana Kroftova says she thought the eleven hours they spent in detention would never end:

"They took us to a police station where nobody spoke to us or properly explained what was going on. We were just able to make out that we were accused of engaging in counter-revolutionary activities against the Cuban regime. What was worse they refused to let us call the Czech embassy. So we spent the 11 hours without knowing what our fate would be."
...

www.radio.cz...



posted on Dec, 19 2014 @ 07:17 PM
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originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: ladyinwaiting

So, could you tell me why if Obama, and his administration really wanted this, why are they trying to do it now that the majority of Congress and the Senate is Republican?...


Because the majority in the Senate isn't Republican yet. If he's going to do this on his own, he can probably do it before January.

And besides. Who is to say that this isn't the way they all want it? Maybe the Republicans want him to do it by executive order so they won't have to explain it to the people who voted for them. All the socialists on the left will eat it up and all the conservatives and libertarians will think the Republicans couldn't stop him.



posted on Dec, 19 2014 @ 07:19 PM
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originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: ladyinwaiting
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

So you don't believe they have any capacity for change whatsoever? Because I do. People can change. Maybe even governments too, who knows? I don't want to give up the idea for progress. At least let them try, yes?


Live in Cuba, as a Cuban, then tell me whether or not the dictatorship can really change with it still in power. Live in North Korea, as a North Korean and then tell me things can change there too with the dictatorship still in power.


OMG. Can we get off the Emotion Train? Doing my reading half of the Miami Cuban community are ready for this. Then there's those living in the past. They sure are vocal.... and becoming less relevant.



posted on Dec, 19 2014 @ 07:20 PM
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a reply to: ladyinwaiting

Giving more money to a complete dictatorial system is not going to help them one bit.

Or do you actually believe that a total dictatorship getting more money is going to give away their power?



posted on Dec, 19 2014 @ 07:22 PM
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originally posted by: intrepid


OMG. Can we get off the Emotion Train? Doing my reading half of the Miami Cuban community are ready for this. Then there's those living in the past. They sure are vocal.... and becoming less relevant.


OMG. can you get off the "I want to pay for my cheap prostitutes in Cuba, and vacation large in Cuba while the Cuban people suffer train?

As for "the Cubans in Miami ready for this"?... I am pretty sure a lot of those people are just like you, in the sense that they have no idea on how life really is in Cuba. A majority of those people were born in the U.S., so they are not really Cubans, or Cuban-American, they are of Cuban descent but never saw, or experienced what life is like in the dictatorship.






edit on 19-12-2014 by ElectricUniverse because: add comment.



posted on Dec, 19 2014 @ 07:24 PM
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originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: intrepid


OMG. Can we get off the Emotion Train? Doing my reading half of the Miami Cuban community are ready for this. Then there's those living in the past. They sure are vocal.... and becoming less relevant.


OMG. can you get off the "I want to pay for my cheap prostitutes in Cuba, and live large in Cuba while the Cuban people suffer train?


I thought someone could be more insulting. I was wrong. NEVER had a whore. I think you just sunk any credibility that you thought you had.



posted on Dec, 19 2014 @ 07:27 PM
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a reply to: intrepid

Yeah, that was pretty bad, Trep. Don't see you deserving that remark at all.

Anyway, I think I've beaten this poor old horse enough. (Do y'all say that in Canada?..... That it's useless to keep beating a dead horse?)
edit on 12/19/2014 by ladyinwaiting because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 19 2014 @ 07:47 PM
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a reply to: ladyinwaiting

So you didn't know that the majority of lone male foreign tourists that go to Cuba do so for the prostitution? Not only for the cheap food for tourists.

In Cuba, many women, and minors sell themselves to tourists for food, other necessities or a few dollars. About 58% of male tourists, if not more go there for the sex trafficking.

Whether or not intrepid would do that I can't say. But a foreigner male alone wanting to go to Cuba? Even Cubans in the island would say most often those that go is exactly for that. It's a sad fact, but that's what it is.

There is a Spaniard reporter who went undercover and filmed how even in schools there were teachers in Cuba helping to sell the services of minors to foreigners.





edit on 19-12-2014 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)




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