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originally posted by: yuppa
the ten commandments do not apply to NT covenant . .
originally posted by: yuppa
The topic has been researched quite well and im pretty sure what im talking about.
When God chose the Hebrew people for His purpose He said He didn't choose the biggest nor the strongest and often called the a rebellious group . Look at Jonah or even Lot . Then when you get into the new testament you see the same thing that not many wise, good or strong are chosen . And if you want to see a group of them and what He was dealing with then the Corinthians are your group . a reply to: FallenHuman
What I find hard to believe is that so many people cast so many aspersions on the Prophet Abraham. And by doing so, on God's decree. What people assert is not fitting for a person chosen of God. God could have chosen anyone, but surely he chose the best. You all know good people; do good people take mistresses, or do they get married? Don't forget God -All knowing - All Seeing would not be happy by such behavior, just as any of you wouldn't.
So, think about someone, chosen by God, with the highest morality, integrity and strength of will...remember he is the believer in his time, there isn't anyone else. Think about the character of such a man, before you start ascribing what you read in a book that could be right, but could also be wrong.
originally posted by: Sahabi
a reply to: AlephBet
The nations ARE deceived as stated in Revelation. Christ is the Son of God.
Perhaps I may be deceived,... and I concede that I may be wrong,... for many times my closely held truths have shattered into petty foolishness!
All is One and One is All. What you pay homage to as a Father, Mother, and Son is actually the worship of the primordial separation of the One into reality's existence. The unity of One is the Kingdom of God, whereas the separation into parts, figures, and roles (Father, Mother, Son) is the spiral into illusionary separation.
What you look for in a redeemer, savior, atoner, scapegoat, sacrificial lamb, or even the recipient of a pointed finger is actually the denial of what is,... and a forfeiture of one's own responsibility, power, and personal relationship/connection to All that is One.
www.beinaberean.org... a reply to: Logarock
God Cannot Forgive Sin
To Plato, Socrates has been quoted to say, “It may be that God can forgive sins but I do not see how.”
If God is just, and He claims to be, if God is impartial, and He claims to be, then can He forgive one man or woman without forgiving every man or woman—as we understand the term "forgive"?
You know, I think the Bible may concur with Socrates. God cannot forgive sin.
To forgive means:
1. to cease to blame or hold resentment against (someone or something)
2. to grant pardon for (a mistake, wrongdoing, etc)
3. (tr) to free or pardon (someone) from penalty
4. (tr) to free from the obligation of (a debt, payment, etc)
Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003
To "forgive" a debt is to cancel or pardon a debt. I don’t think God can "forgive" sin as we define "forgive" since no payment would be required.
It is very clear throughout scripture that He does require payment for sin. Whether it is the life blood of doves, sheep, bulls, or even His Son, Yeshua. Speaking of Yeshua, John the Baptist said:
Payment is always required and since payment is required, the debt is not then "forgiven." Payment is made by some thing or someone.
And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness[a;fesij (aphiemi)]. Hebrews 9:22
This verse seems to be a paradox in combining payment with pardon. Payment in that blood is required, and if payment is made then forgiveness is redundant. It's paid, what's left to forgive?
Our problem, I think, comes in translation. Regardless of the Greek or Hebrew words used, when translated "forgive" it violates the principle of the congruity of scripture which states there must be payment and, logically, if payment is made there is nothing left to forgive.
"Behold the lamb of God who (gives His blood as payment for) the sin of the world!" John 1:29 (addition mine)
As humankind we are obligated to forgive (pardon) those who sin against us, however, as relates to God it is different. The debt must be paid.
There are a few verses in the NT that, referring of God, use the word "forgiving," one being the Lord’s Prayer and another is 1 John 1:9:
"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (NKJV)
Here John is writing to the body of Christ, those who have already availed themselves of the payment for sin by accepting Yeshua's sacrifice. One payment for all their sin—past, present, and future.
In this verse we have the mix of forgiveness and being just.
The Greek word used here and in most places for forgive is a;fesij (aphiemi). Interestingly, a;fesij is used in other places and and with a very different meaning. For example:
Jesus speaking to the woman at the well, "So the woman left (a;fesij) her waterpot, and went into the city" John 4:28.
when Jesus called Peter and Andrew to follow him we read, "Immediately they left (a;fesij) their nets and followed Him." Matthew 4:20.
"Then the devil left (a;fesij) Him; and behold, angels came and began to minister to Him." Matthew 4:11
"in the same way also the men abandoned (a;fesij) the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men" Romans 1:27
There are many, many, other verses with similar meanings where the one having a burden (the pot, the net, an objective, nature) left these things and walked away without them. Other ways this word has been translated and the number times it was used this way are:
Usage: abandoned(1), allow(5), allowed(2), divorce(2), forgave(2), forgive(23), forgiven(23), forgives(1), gave...permission(1), leave(7), leaves(2), leaving(8), left(38), let(9), let...alone(6), let him have(1), neglected(1), neglecting(2), permit(6), permitted(1), permitting(1), send...away(1), tolerate(1), uttered(1), yielded(1). Strong’s Concordance
Could a better interpretation for a;fesij be, "to walk away" or "leave behind" rather than "forgive" (or pardon) as we understand the word in the English language and culture?
"If we confess our sins, He remains faithful and just and able to walk away from our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (my translation)
If you owe me a debt and I forgive you the debt or if you or someone else pays the debt for you, you can then walk away free of the burden of that debt. It is forgiveness or payment in these cases.
If forgiveness (no payment) were a viable option would Jesus’ sacrifice be required?
Hebrews 9:22 tells us the payment with blood is an absolute necessity. Our sin debt must be paid. Either we pay it with our life blood or someone (the Lamb) or something (a lamb) must pay the debt for us with His or its life.
Before Yeshua it was the annual life blood of animals that atoned, or covered, the sins of the people annually. Payment had to be made. In the case of of Yeshua, the Lamb of God, it is the quality of his life blood poured out as payment, once of all time that makes it sufficient for the sins of the whole world. Anyone willing to allow Yeshua to make payment for them can then, "walk away" from, or "leave behind" that debt burden for all time.
Thereafter, the periodic confession (acknowledgement) when we have sinned, enables God cleanse us of those subsequent unrighteous acts.
Since payment must always be made for sin(s), forgiveness (i.e. pardon) cannot be a theologically correct translation for the Greek word a;fesij (aphiemi). As pertains to the inter-relationships of humankind, the principle "forgiveness" or pardon is correct since we are asked not to require payment where others have wronged us.
The Lord's Prayer then would read, "Our Father…add all our current trespasses to those already paid for, as we pardon those who trespasses against us.
originally posted by: the2ofusr1
Is there a reason or benefit to sharing the Gospel ? If not then why does He send those out to proclaim it ? Why record any of the Bible for that matter ? a reply to: zardust
originally posted by: zardust
a reply to: Logarock
Your last paragraph is patently false. The entire bible is filled with teaching of the salvation of all. It's the corrupted doctrine of eternal damnation that is nothing more than a facade for religious control. It's not your fault though. It's the utter lack of understanding from the theologians for the last 1600 years or so. Building a false building on a sinking foundation. The errors are repeated ad nauseum by carnal minded men who have not had the veil of death removed. The men who place themselves in seats of power akin to the Pharisees who placed themselves in the seat of Moses ( the accuser or the symbol for the accuser/law). Going to heaven, having a personal relationship with Jesus, the rapture, anything having to do with blood lines in the now, the end times of doom and gloom. All of these are the other foundations of this whorehouse of modern churchianity built on sinking sand and causing the destruction of mankind (self destruction).
Ishmael, first-born son of Abraham, has been marginalized and bastardized by Judaism and Christendom. A major reasoning is that Ishmael was born "out of wedlock" to Sarah's slave; Hagar.
originally posted by: ToneDeaf
Why the emphases on blood lines ?
^ talk about born of flesh, Lol
Blood-lines are out of FLESH.
Ishmael however was born of spirit and love, and that
is the point.
After the flood,
bloodlines were mute. Blood-lines means nothing to
Yet why is it still an issue in judiasm ?