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The Devil’s in the Details: Inside The Ukrainian Freedom Support Act

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posted on Dec, 16 2014 @ 10:31 PM
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a reply to: Agent_USA_Supporter




No doubt you would preferred the Muslim Brotherhood to take over Syria.


or worse the "pure evil" named IS.

Egypt has already thrown MB out and things are calm now as before.




posted on Dec, 16 2014 @ 10:33 PM
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a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

I do have to wonder why Putin has allied himself with the scumbag Assad.

I wonder why has America allied itself with the Gulf dictator regime states such as Qatar and Saudi Arabia while trying to prompt Democracy in the middle east and Syria?

At the same time America has being the one whom has being arming the same terrorists they were supposedly meant to fight them.

No doubt you would love Syria to be in a hellhole like Libya is now in. A mess which west created.



posted on Dec, 16 2014 @ 11:17 PM
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a reply to: Agent_USA_Supporter


No doubt you would preferred the Muslim Brotherhood to take over Syria.



The only thing there is no doubt about is that only Assad has Airstrike & Barrel Bomb capabilities...

You can't argue that fact so you attack me with the fallacy that I want the MB in charge of Syria...

Not only is that nonsense but it shows me that when you cannot debate facts you go for insults.




Assad is a child murderer... Deal with it.
edit on 16-12-2014 by CharlieSpeirs because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 16 2014 @ 11:46 PM
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a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Would agree to somewhat the fact that Assad's government has been little tough handed but in comparison to AQ/Talibian/MB/IS.........I would take Assad/Gaddafi/Saddam........as rulers 5x over.

Under these secular regimes there were no obstacles to starting businesses, getting modern education, exercising freedoms in personal choices of dressing, social matters, speaking foreign languages, or practicing a non-Islamic religion etc.

Vices like corruption, lack of freedom for press, socialistic inefficiencies etc. were there.

But these were much more tolerable than gunmen walking into house or school and killing 150 children (today Talibian did this killing in Pakistan) or arresting certain people and beheading them in a kangaroo court.

Assad is no Jesus Christ..........but please! do not push for MB/AQ/IS.

btw, not much difference in killing children vrs killing half million Iraqis, 100k libyans and 300K Syrians. children are very much included in these figures.

now go and find out who is responsible for instigating the civil wars in the above mentioned countries.

who is the real evil here?
edit on 16-12-2014 by victor7 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2014 @ 01:35 AM
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a reply to: victor7

I have a question about these 500000 casualties in Iraq how do you explain there population growth rate has continued despite such heavy casualties. Ever think those numbers might be fake?? Seems to me you believe anything ad long as it supports your beliefs. And just so you know Assad had destroyed entire towns not just school kids your defense of that is concerning to say the least. And personally any government willing to support that is evil. If the US made that move people here would be protesting.



posted on Dec, 17 2014 @ 02:36 AM
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a reply to: Agent_USA_Supporter




No doubt you would love Syria to be in a hellhole like Libya is now in. A mess which west created.


AH yes the old blame America defense...Sure why not blame America for the problems that Assad has created, also I guess Gadaffi was just an innocent man and didn't sanction terrorist attacks against the US?

The people of Libya didn't want to live under the rule of a crazy man like Gadaffi so they took action...but of course in your eyes the US causes all the worlds problems...you need to remove the blinders and see the world is not being run by the US and the US isn't the cause of all the problems in the world. That is only in your mind and that of a few.



posted on Dec, 17 2014 @ 02:41 AM
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a reply to: CharlieSpeirs




You can't argue that fact so you attack me with the fallacy that I want the MB in charge of Syria...


The only thing he can do.



Not only is that nonsense but it shows me that when you cannot debate facts you go for insults.


You nailed it.



posted on Dec, 17 2014 @ 06:36 AM
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originally posted by: VirusGuard
Come on mate they gave weapons to the FSA who turned into ISIS and i don't blame Russia for not buying any of this BS


This is the second time I've seen you say this on ATS inside a week. I let it slide the first time, but I have to call you on it now. The FSA did not turn into ISIS. AQIQ turned into ISIS, the FSA is still the FSA and holed up in Northern Syria right now.

Not that I am surprised you're peddling this BS though, it's just another shovel load in that cart of it you pull around.



posted on Dec, 17 2014 @ 06:47 AM
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originally posted by: victor7
btw, not much difference in killing children vrs killing half million Iraqis, 100k libyans and 300K Syrians. children are very much included in these figures.


All of those figures are bogus.

All consensus on Iraq shows around 100,000 dead, mostly from sectarian violence between Iraqi's, not from the US or it's allies actions.

Syria, the figure is more like 100,000 according to Amnesty.

Libya, consensus seems to settle on between 10-20,000 killed during the Civil War. More have died since in the inter-tribal/regional fighting but trying to pin this on the US is weak.



posted on Dec, 17 2014 @ 06:52 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien

As usual, you are linking to a Russian propaganda site that does not link to the actual bill. Here is the bill:

www.congress.gov...

Please read through it and copy and paste the relevant passages about Syria, or admit that you hate to do research that undermines your faith in Russian propaganda. Incidentally, it should be pointed out here that the bill needs to be passed by Congress and signed by the President in order to become law. At the moment, it is nothing more than a threatening press release. Russian propagandists count on your ignorance of the American legislative process to manipulate you.



posted on Dec, 17 2014 @ 11:08 AM
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a reply to: DJW001

As being said in the article, when Syria government is not being recognized "internationally," that means thus by The West...

Sanctions Relating to the Defense Sector



(I) knowingly manufactures or sells defense articles transferred into Syria or into the territory specified country without the consent of the internationally recognized government of that country;

(II) transfers defense article into Syria or into the territory specified country without the consent of the internationally recognized government of that country; or

(III) brokers or otherwise assists in the transfer of defense articles into Syria or into the territory of a specified country without the consent of the internationally recognized government of that country;


Source

Funny to see how you even trying to twist an US government resolution.
edit on 17 12 2014 by BornAgainAlien because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2014 @ 11:51 AM
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I am wondering if this might be engineered so Putin can blame his subordinates for everything Putin screwed up. Blame them, then fire them.



'A Sense Of Panic' May Force Putin To Sack His Government


REUTERS/Maxim Shemetov U.S. Ambassador Michael McFaul walks outside as he leaves the Russian Foreign Ministry headquarters in Moscow, May 15, 2013.

Michael McFaul, former US ambassador to Moscow, told CNBC that there is "a sense of panic among [Russia's] elites right now" that could lead Russia's President Vladimir Putin to change his government.

The Stanford professor suggested that Putin could undertake a surprise reshuffle in an effort to reassure key players in the country that the president is in control of the situation.

"I actually get a sense of panic among economic elites right now, and that makes Putin more cautious," he told CNBC in an interview. "I think he may think about changing his government. I think that may be the surprise move you might see in the coming days or weeks."

Doing so, however, would mean removing Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev from office — a role he was given after stepping down as president after only one term to allow Putin to return to Russia's top office.

Under the Russian constitution the same person may not be elected President of the Russian Federation for more than two terms running. The role of prime minister was widely seen as a reward for Medvedev's decision not to seek another term, as would he would have been entitled to.

Firing him at this stage could be particularly galling for a man who was once half of what was called Russia's "tandemocracy" (tandemokratiia in Russian), or joint rule with Putin.


click link for remainder of article..



posted on Dec, 17 2014 @ 11:57 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

It`s more likely being engineered "news" by The West to try stir things up, so that Russian government breaks up because of paranoia or the powerful forces in The Kremlin become paranoid and make the wrong decisions.
edit on 17 12 2014 by BornAgainAlien because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2014 @ 12:36 PM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Don't pay any attention. The news is from May 2013, way too old considering the current events since Feb 2014.

Media disinformation is a favorite tool of the west. Anything said by US ambassador is mostly fabrication anyways.


edit on 17-12-2014 by victor7 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2014 @ 12:40 PM
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a reply to: stumason

You are "evil". When can't present valid arguments, then you have come down to fabricating the numbers.

Like told before, go and find the main reason why civil wars and regime changes have been taking place in ME and now Ukraine.

Which EVIL entity is behind such instigation.



posted on Dec, 17 2014 @ 01:29 PM
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Like told before, go and find the main reason why civil wars and regime changes have been taking place in ME


Islamic radicalism and Shia vs Sunni



and now Ukraine.


Vladimir Putin



posted on Dec, 17 2014 @ 01:33 PM
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a reply to: mbkennel

Uh ?

George W. Bush is Shia or Sunni, I didn`t know that.

I also didn`t know Putin is the president of the US.
edit on 17 12 2014 by BornAgainAlien because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2014 @ 03:28 PM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien

www.independent.co.uk...
Isis 'executes 150 women for refusing to marry militants' and buries them in mass graves

The only entity more EVIL than the US foreign policy is the ISIS........a CIA horror and terror production!!



posted on Dec, 18 2014 @ 12:08 AM
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originally posted by: victor7

The only entity more EVIL than the US foreign policy is the ISIS........a CIA horror and terror production!!


Any port in a storm eh..



posted on Dec, 18 2014 @ 09:54 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien


Funny to see how you even trying to twist an US government resolution.


Actually, it was your source that did the twisting. Here is what it says:


Congress understood that the current anti-Russian climate meant that the UFSA was surely bound to pass, so it added a completely irrelevant clause relating to Syria in order to strengthen the war effort against it. Specifically, the Act mandates that sanctions be imposed against any Russian company or related individual that sells defense articles to Syria. This is the complete opposite standard that it is applying to the ‘big tent’ countries. Congress says that Russia can’t transfer such units to the ‘big tent’ without the consent of their governments, but such transfers are prohibited to Syria when its government consents to it.


That is somewhat true, but intentionally misleading. First, the "anti-Russian climate" exists only in the minds of paranoid Russian supporters. Most Americans give little thought to the situation in Eastern Europe, and even legislators in Washington are being driven mostly by pressure from our NATO allies. Russia's actions represent a genuine threat to European stability.

There is virtually no support for American military involvement in either Syria, which is a lose-lose situation, or in Ukraine, which runs the risk of escalating into a major confrontation. A small number of conservative politicians have been lobbying for token US involvement in Syria, and this attempt to shut off the principle source of Assad's arms is that token. It is not irrelevant, as arms sales to both Syria and IS are an important source of income for Russia. Clamping down on this income stream is a legitimate means of pressuring the Russian economy.

But take a closer look at the wording:


(I) knowingly manufactures or sells
defense articles transferred into Syria
or into the territory of a specified
country without the consent of the
internationally recognized government
of that country;

(II) transfers defense articles
into Syria or into the territory of a
specified country without the consent
of the internationally recognized
government of that country;
or
(III) brokers or otherwise assists
in the transfer of defense articles
into Syria or into the territory of a
specified country without the consent
of the internationally recognized
government of that country; or
(B) knowingly, on or after the date of the
enactment of this Act, assists, sponsors, or provides
financial, material, or technological support for, or
goods or services to or in support of, an entity
described in subparagraph (A) with respect to an
activity described in clause (ii) of that subparagraph.


www.congress.gov...

Although it specifies former Soviet states and satellites, the generalized wording intentionally reflects the following:


Article 6

Prohibitions

1. A State Party shall not authorize any transfer of conventional arms covered under Article 2 (1) or of items covered under Article 3 or Article 4, if the transfer would violate its obligations under measures adopted by the United Nations Security Council acting under Chapter VII of the Charter of the United Nations, in particular arms embargoes.

2. A State Party shall not authorize any transfer of conventional arms covered under Article 2 (1) or of items covered under Article 3 or Article 4, if the transfer would violate its relevant international obligations under international agreements to which it is a Party, in particular those relating to the transfer of, or illicit trafficking in, conventional arms.

3. A State Party shall not authorize any transfer of conventional arms covered under Article 2 (1) or of items covered under Article 3 or Article 4, if it has knowledge at the time of authorization that the arms or items would be used in the commission of genocide, crimes against humanity, grave breaches of the Geneva Conventions of 1949, attacks directed against civilian objects or civilians protected as such, or other war crimes as defined by international agreements to which it is a Party.


United Nations Arms Trade Treaty

In other words, the United States is attempting to force Russia to abide by a UN resolution banning the sale of weapons to terrorists, armed insurgencies and genocidal governments, a treaty both the United States and Ukraine signed, but Russia refused to sign!

The devil is indeed in the details. This US bill which is ostensibly to authorize aid to Ukraine is actually an attempt to force Russia to abide by a UN resolution banning the sale of weapons to governments committing genocide, just like Russia's vaunted "Anti-Nazi" resolution was really an attempt to impose censorship!


edit on 18-12-2014 by DJW001 because: Edit to correct formatting.



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