It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Study: Your Electric Car May Not Be So Green

page: 1
12
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 02:59 PM
link   
Source

it is hard to beat gasoline for public and environmental health. The key is where the electricity comes from. If it comes from coal, the electric cars produce 3.6 times more soot and smog deaths than gas.

Hybrids and diesels are cleaner than gas


I was trying to explain to my friend the other day that his Tesla probably does more harm to the environment than my XJ Cherokee because of where he get's his power from (Coal)

Then this popped up in my news feed today.

Edit: Not sure why it is bolded...
edit on 15-12-2014 by raymundoko because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 03:03 PM
link   
a reply to: raymundoko

How rare earth materials for batteries and such are ruining the planet.




posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 03:04 PM
link   
a reply to: raymundoko

All this "be green" is all nonsense anyway. None of it really makes sense if you do your proper research and actually look into it all. The Earth will be fine with or without our "help"



posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 03:24 PM
link   
a reply to: raymundoko

What I've always wondered is when those huge electric car batteries inevitable wear out and need replacing what happens with all that toxic lead?

I guess you can paint 'em green before getting thrown in a landfill.


edit on 12/15/2014 by dezertdog because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 04:14 PM
link   
a reply to: dezertdog

No it can't go in a landfill... It gets recycled and turned into new batteries.

I'd take an electric car over a petrol car any day of the week.

OP; your logic is flawed, you've only looked at old world power generation methods.
You have not taken into account Solar, Wind or Water.

Here in Australia, our power companies gives us an option of buying green, meaning that what power we get from them is sourced from renewable energy providers. IE Wind or Solar.
Not to mention all the Solar energy being put back into the grid now from the countless houses with Solar Panels on the roof.

Digging up rare earth metals is just as bad for the environment as coal mining.
In the long run however, batteries and electric vehicles are much better for the environment.



posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 04:31 PM
link   
a reply to: Sovaka

Considering Australia generates 90% of its power from things you did not list, like coal, I'm not sure why you think your option is doing much...maybe they trick you with feel good blurbs to make you think you're doing more than you are...I guess it's working?

en.m.wikipedia.org...

Don't get me wrong, the advances Australia has made are great, but far from where you think they are...

Edit: also, components of batteries can be recycled, the hazardous products (about 5% of a battery) can't be.

I personally think diesel hybrids should be focused on more than electric cars right now.
edit on 15-12-2014 by raymundoko because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 04:38 PM
link   
a reply to: Sovaka

I highly doubt all acid-lead batteries are or will be recycled.

And with the trend to Li-ion batteries in electric cars I give you this fact from Waste Management World:



With lithium recycling in its infancy, there is currently no main recycling infrastructure in the world that treats only automotive Li-ion batteries.


Full Article Here



posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 05:00 PM
link   
Interesting, what always comes to mind here for me is the cost and that is not selfish thinking. If I cannot afford a environment friendly car well then I can't.
You betcha those batteries lose their ability to hold and deliver a charge and when that time arrives get out your check book if your rich enough to have one.

Recycle fees, disposal fees, taxes, labour costs, replacement battery costs, and more. This is going to occur what? every 4 years or so maybe sooner in colder climates.

The most expensive energy in Ontario at this moment is electricity second to none! I can attest that replacing serious battery banks is very costly indeed and they do require heavy maintenance and monitoring all the time.
We are talking $10.000.00 dollars for a heavy duty fork truck battery and that would be about every 6 years and that unit was used a lot and always inside a heated building.
You start talking outside all the time in snow and whatnot that is going to shorten the life of the battery quickly.

Then there is the regular maintenance above and beyond your precious battery packs. Tires, Oil, Exhaust, Brakes, Air conditioning, Engine components, etc etc etc.......
All the above maintenance take energy and that is human and industrial......We for one cannot afford a "Green Car" because of all the "Green or Environmental Taxes" involved with such a vehicle.

I agree with the OP 100% , "It's tough being green" :-)
S&F
Regards, Iwinder



posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 05:17 PM
link   
I don't think people are buying Tesla because they are green.

At $100,000 for the Tesla Roadster, by the time you can afford that car, you have probably done so much damage to the environment that the little bitty savings you are going to get by driving a Tesla is of no consequence.

It takes a lot of BTUs to earn $100,000 discretionary income. In most cases. I would say.

No -- I think people are buying Tesla's because they are cool cars and neck snapping fast.

I rode in a Tesla the other day. It was a great car. For the luxury minded only. I would like one myself, but I would probably just by a cheaper more practical car in the end.



posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 05:26 PM
link   
Hybrid and electric cars are more of a marketing ploy than a step in the right direction.

Until aircraft, ships, trains, large trucks, and factories are running clean... a comparative handful of clean-running passenger cars are completely negligible and it's more of a "feel-good" attempt than an actual solution.



posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 05:28 PM
link   

originally posted by: Axial Leader
I don't think people are buying Tesla because they are green.

At $100,000 for the Tesla Roadster, by the time you can afford that car, you have probably done so much damage to the environment that the little bitty savings you are going to get by driving a Tesla is of no consequence.

It takes a lot of BTUs to earn $100,000 discretionary income. In most cases. I would say.

No -- I think people are buying Tesla's because they are cool cars and neck snapping fast.

I rode in a Tesla the other day. It was a great car. For the luxury minded only. I would like one myself, but I would probably just by a cheaper more practical car in the end.


The Roadster is not very common because, as you said, it's a high priced sports car. Tesla has had great success with the Model S which retails with a starting price around $70,000.

There are a ton of Tesla Model S's driving around Dallas.



posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 06:06 PM
link   
Does anyone know where the actual paper is located? I followed the link in the AP article to pnas.org, but I don't see it there anywhere.

This is not a new argument against electric cars. It's called the "long tail pipe."

dex



posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 06:15 PM
link   
a reply to: DexterRiley

Here is one version of it. There may be others.



posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 07:06 PM
link   
a reply to: DexterRiley

Nope. I still got it wrong. Here's the actual document. The previous one I linked was for gasoline and ethanol only. I think this paper builds on that one.

dex



posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 07:25 PM
link   
my electric vehicle COSTS me more GREEN every year

my annual vehicle taxes:

2011 - $58.53
2012 - $65.78
2013 - $74.++
2014- $119.36

road fee, registration, license plate decal additional
insurance increases around $25.00 per year


I think I will go back to driving a 10 year outdated, $250. fishing car... it might cost me $30. per year in taxes and decrease in value to a minimum of $15 yr to tag

being 'green' ecology minded with rates that increased 100% in 4 years...
instead of the norm of declining annually as the vehicle depreciated in value is not what this disabled vet, on a fixed income looked forward to having happen....

the county & city tax assessors, legislators have been put on notice I intend to Sue
do not own or use a electric vehicle in horry county or Myrtle beach SC... these are money grubbing vultures here that target the retirement and veterans communities.... keep on going down to Florida retirement areas to resettle from those northern climes ~ this place is not accommodating to retirees with electric vehicles



posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 08:17 PM
link   
There was a press blurb overseas about a car that India is supposed to be making for the general consumer..
I did a youtube search and the older model is all I could find.. Little ugly Future car not worth posting.. However the new model looks like a mini van.. At it's present stage, 200 miles on an aircharge (on board compressor recharges over night) the auto would satisfy most commuters needs.. I doubt with the regulations/taxes/oil companies/etc etc in the states the American consumer would ever see one..


www.harisingh.com...
The Air Car, developed by ex-Formula One engineer Guy N. For Luxembourg-based MDI, uses compressed air to push its engine's pistons and make the car go.

The Air Car, called the "Mini CAT" could cost around 365,757 rupees in India or $8,177 US. Air conditioner and all..

The Mini CAT which is a simple, light urban car, with a tubular chassis, a body of fiberglass that is glued not welded and powered by compressed air. A Microprocessor is used to control all electrical functions of the car. One tiny radio transmitter sends instructions to the lights, turn signals and every other electrical device on the car. Which are not many.

The temperature of the clean air expelled by the exhaust pipe is between 0-15 degrees below zero, which makes it suitable for use by the internal air conditioning system with no need for gases or loss of power.

There are no keys, just an access card which can be read by the car from your pocket. According to the designers, it costs less than 50 rupees per 100 KM, that's about a tenth the cost of a car running on gas. Its mileage is about double that of the most advanced electric car, a factor which makes it a perfect choice for city motorists. The car has a top speed of 105 KM per hour or 60 mph and would have a range of around 300 km or 185 miles between refuels. Refilling the car will take place at adapted gas stations with special air compressors. A fill up will only take two to three minutes and costs approximately 100 rupees ($1.78 CAD!) and the car will be ready to go another 300 kilometers.

This car can also be filled at home with it's on board compressor. It will take 3-4 hours to refill the tank, but it can be done while you sleep.

Because there is no combustion engine, changing the 1 liter of vegetable oil is only necessary every 50,000 KM or 30,000 miles. Due to its simplicity, there is very little maintenance to be done on this car.

This concept from what I have read works... No expensive batteries, no gas or diesel... Just compressed air that does need a power outlet to run the compressor.. Now, if they would figure out how to run the compressor with some kind of solar panel while the car is in direct sunlight it would be even "mo better" !
edit on Mon Dec 15 2014 by DontTreadOnMe because: added source



posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 08:44 PM
link   
Graphene is the future of the electric car, so the argument is really moot.



posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 11:05 PM
link   

originally posted by: raymundoko
a reply to: Sovaka
I'm not sure why you think your option is doing much...maybe they trick you with feel good blurbs to make you think you're doing more than you are...I guess it's working?


I like how you dismissed my entire post.

With only more and more uptake of renewable energy, your options are greatly increasing.

You can't ignore the fact that a car charged from a solar array isn't almost 100% green.
Or from wind... or from water...



posted on Dec, 16 2014 @ 01:00 AM
link   
Red energy here in Australia uses energy from the Snowy mountain hydro scheme instead of coal so that's another non-coal source.

I'd much rather we were using energy from geo-thermal etc but that's not on offer yet (that I know of).

I'd love to have a Tesla Model S myself. With all of the crap that oil companies have done to destroy our environment, I would take an electric car any day.



posted on Dec, 16 2014 @ 05:55 AM
link   
a reply to: raymundoko

The difference is that one power plant can run hundreds of thousands of cars, trucks and buses everyday, so you have to split that pollution into hundreds of thousands or whatever that number may be.

I don't know what the technology of filtering coal burning emissions is like (probably all sorts of tech to clean it up), but it doesn't have to be coal. I think they should build huge solar arrays somewhere uninhabited and use superconducting tech to distribute the power around the world. There is also off-shore wind and Thorium and hopefully better alternatives in the future.

I can't wait to see fossil fuel vehicles become extinct; it's ridiculous that we are still driving them.




top topics



 
12
<<   2 >>

log in

join