After WWII Japanese were tried, convicted and hanged for war crimes, which included Water Boarding.

It seems John McCain reportedly has never supported water boarding. I haven't heard this before, but it seems believable as he himself was a POW in the Vietnam war. Something who has experience such things I imagine would not be so quick to make decisions during wartime the same as others who have never seen such things.

Although, I always question political personalities and how much of what they do and what they say is real, besides just a public image they perceive. However, the point of all this, is he is quoted stating that after WWII, the Japanese were tried, convicted and hanged for war crimes, which included Water Boarding.

The morning after the CNN/YouTube debate in St. Petersburg, John McCain remained firm in his stand against the use of an interrogation technique called "waterboarding." He cited solid history to buttress his position.

"I forgot to mention last night that following World War II war crime trials were convened. The Japanese were tried and convicted and hung for war crimes committed against American POWs. Among those charges for which they were convicted was waterboarding," he told reporters at a campaign event.

"If the United States is in another conflict ... and we have allowed that kind of torture to be inflicted upon people we hold captive, then there is nothing to prevent that enemy from also torturing American prisoners."

www.politifact.com...

Which really makes you think, are you kidding me? The double standards and hypocrisy in this world are unbelievable.

Are you kidding me?

As long as you have the power, you can do anything and get away with it.
As soon as you loose that power, the past might catch up with you. Luckily, that doesn't happen to Very Important People (and Countries).

The atrocities that men commit during war, or upon war criminals do not have limits.

Water boarding could probably be compared to Christmas morning when put beside some of the other horrible things that have happened throughout our history - and probably still happening today.

The reality of the world is that there are psychotic individuals who see no wrong in using human flesh like toys, and other people who want peace.

The problem is that the people who want peace depend on these psychotics to protect them from the other psychotics. This is the game that has been being played for thousands of years.

People want peace, but those in power love the game.

originally posted by: boncho The double standards and hypocrisy in this world are unbelievable.

exactly so. rather a sad state of affairs.

a reply to: boncho

America writes all the history books read by American youth. Need I say more?

a reply to: boncho

War crimes? War is a crime.

The losing side is tried for war crimes by the victors.

Water boarding was used on John McCaine in Vietnam.

The US used it on the Vietnamese there, too.

"The thing you could not do in torture was injure the body or cause death," Peters says. That was — and still is — what makes water boarding such an attractive interrogation technique, he says: It causes great physical and mental suffering, yet leaves no marks on the body.

A tortured history

a reply to: boncho

Usually, on threads or news stories such as this, the more horrific of the crimes done are reported to show the full scope of the situation. Here, you tended to ignore the worst crimes which were utterly incredible, on the same par as the Nazi crimes, and, evidently, want to equate waterboarding with the worst of the worst. Sorry, your angle just doesn't make the grade.

You should read about all the wonderful things the Japanese did to the Chinese. Waterboarding is nowhere near the worst sin.

originally posted by: InverseLookingGlass
a reply to: boncho

America writes all the history books read by American youth. Need I say more?

Most American History Books should be cataloged under " Fiction "

Treatment of prisoners has in the past given us many POWs who thought it was better to surrender to the Yanks and be treated as by the Geneva accords/conventions than fight to the death.. Since George Washington (who executed his own troops if caught torturing prisoners) through out the many conflicts that followed the statement was, "we were above that sort of stuff"... It was a lie but made everyone feel better..

SS troops were routinely shot if captured by Paton's Army, where the normal troops were usually cared for..
N. Vietnamese if they surrendered were usually turned over to their own S. Vietnamese people... There was a very active Chu Hoi (surrender) program that many decided to take advantage of..

Iraq troops surrendered in such quantities that it almost impeded advancement.. Why because they knew/thought the coalition forces would treat them humanely..

If you are fighting and believe that if you are captured you will be tortured most people will fight to their last drop of blood..

If I were fighting ISIS you can bet your Bippie my last bullet would be for me..

With the correct amount of torture you can make anyone swear to anything.. Anyone who believes differently has never experienced the joy's of a full blown water boarding or several other methods employed in rendition countries to make people talk.. Surprising how quickly you can make macho man cry like a baby... He may be crying and begging for his momma but that does not mean anything else he says is the truth..

Sorry but IMO this whole thing is screwed up.. We executed what was once called war criminals and those who gave the orders for torture.. Why because it was uncivilized and we were better than that plus we were signatories of the Geneva Convention...

Now we have become what we once fought against which will bring all the other levels of dire consequences of this 'out in the open' policy change..

I do not like McCain for several reasons, but what the POWs lived through in Hanoi..... I would not wish upon anyone.

It truly is sad that mankind is so creative when it comes to inflicting pain and suffering... Is it necessary sometimes. yep, I promise I am not a bleeding heart.. I fought a war where people were trying to kill me and guess what, I am still alive and I sleep very well at night with no regrets.

I just do not believe waterboarding will in most cases get the info you are after.. Never mind a 3/4 inch garden hose shoved up someone's rectum cannot be called a proper feeding method in most civilized countries..

The Chinese were some of the best at that game but many did not survive the interrogation process..

A family friend, who passed away recently, was a survivor of the Bataan Death March. The atrocities committed by the Japanese make water boarding look like a Sunday picnic.

Google 'Chinese water torture' that is even worse than water boarding, especially on a persons forehead.

a reply to: boncho
How is that a double standard? It included other atrocities...

That's like a man breaking into someone's home raping and murdering a woman and then stealing her stuff...later to be caught and charged w rape , murder, and grand theft......and sentenced to death

He wasn't sentenced to death for robbery. He was sentenced to death for murder..

just my two cents....

originally posted by: boncho


Which really makes you think, are you kidding me? The double standards and hypocrisy in this world are unbelievable.

Really? You think we have double standards?

I don't see it......well except maybe in the government and the military.......oh and the people also...

Other countries can't have nuclear weapons because it's not safe. Who is the ONLY country to have dropped atomic weapons on 2 civilian cities killing HUGE amounts of non military people....but it's all good because it ended the war quicker and saved American and allied lives.

If the Nazi's had dropped Nukes on NYC and LA. during the war we would still be celebrating how inhumane and atrocious it was.

originally posted by: boncho
It seems John McCain reportedly has never supported water boarding.
"If the United States is in another conflict ... and we have allowed that kind of torture to be inflicted upon people we hold captive, then there is nothing to prevent that enemy from also torturing American prisoners."

Sounds logical and fair, but what about if the enemy was torturing American prisoners anyways (and brutally executing them)?

And what else will prevent the enemy from doing this? People aren't going to torture so that their own people won't get tortured? That's so last century. Most Islamists probably assume that if they're taken alive, they'll be subjected to some form of 'torture' through interrogations.

In fact, if you're willingly involving yourself in any part of this 'terror war', on any side, combatant or aid worker, soldier or journalist, you should be assuming that being captured or taken hostage will result in torture and then death (or life imprisonment).

So I guess the question is; should we be nicer and more ethical to enemy terrorists that we capture, in the hopes of gaining something in the eyes of the world, our enemy, and ourselves?

While we watch our citizens getting beheaded on video in the desert with pocket knives..

a reply to: mwood

Saved a lot of Japanese lives as well.

originally posted by: Aliensun
a reply to: boncho

Usually, on threads or news stories such as this, the more horrific of the crimes done are reported to show the full scope of the situation. Here, you tended to ignore the worst crimes which were utterly incredible, on the same par as the Nazi crimes, and, evidently, want to equate waterboarding with the worst of the worst. Sorry, your angle just doesn't make the grade.

You really missed the point then. The point is that water boarding was official policy for intelligence and some military units in the latest middle east wars for the US, an act which was prosecuted as a war crime post WWII, relating to the Japanese.


The point, since you missed it, is forget all the stuff that is denied, covered-up, twisted, manipulated, "not on the books", the actual, official lines of the US military industrial complex was to commit torture/war crimes. Now defend that rationally.

a reply to: 727Sky

In short, bungie need to add a way of buying items from xur without logging on to your console (I know this is possible on PS) or people will complain no matter what he brings.

This is the type of response I was hoping for with the thread. Thanks

a reply to: boncho

Yet he supports Wars and interventions.

I think there's a difficult with context in this type of simplified comparison.

While I think the US use of torture is abhorrent, it has no similarity at all to the magnitude of the brutality the Japanese inflicted in WW2 to the British and Commonwealth and their allies, nor to the untold millions in China, Korea and everywhere else they chose to occupy.

My late grandfather who fought in Burma could testify to the brutality of the Japanese and this is well documented anyway.

Modern Japan is a changed place, proving that it is the environment and the leadership that shapes what people do on the ground. With an unapologetic US government we see that lessons are not being learned. The US has lost any moral high ground unless they put in robust mechanisms to prevent a repetition.

Regards