a question about mandatory tithing

i live in the south and most of the churches and most of the people i know all tell me that god expects me to gibe him ten percent of my paycheck after taxes as a tithe. i know that tithing or taxes was done in the early bible because one of the communities abraham ruled had lost their crops at least i think it was abrham and he not god ordered a ten percent taxe be established where the other communities could help out that neighbor. and only levitire s could xould collect it . i thought all of that whent ou with the new testament and jesus kicking the tac collectors out of his fathers house. where i live some churches even demamd to see your w2s every year to make sure you are paying your share?
and tes i know my grammar sucks sorry

a reply to: proteus33

I would say know your enemy...

Any church that demands you give them money... is only in it for that reason...

It is supposed to be voluntary... And I don't recall anything about 10% of anything in the OT

That would be a man made tradition...

And we are so very greedy

I'm a Christian and will tell you that if a church (when I went) EVER asked to see my w2's I would have had to ask that we all leave the property entirely so I could tell them what I thought about that. Seriously.

I'm no scholar so I can not say if tithing is or isn't correct. When I did go to church I did give my 10% when I had it. There were some weeks in there that I missed it, but the preacher never lost his teeth from either pointing it out or asking about it.

I stay away from churches these days and the focus on tithing in every service is one of the reasons why. In the end your relationship with God is just that... YOURS. We can't buy our way into heaven and that's what a lot of the mega churches are selling lately. If you feel something is right or wrong concerning YOUR relationship with God, either keep doing it or quit. Don't wait for a regular joe to tell you what you should be doing. He has his own relationship with God to deal with.

Just my 2 cents. I know everyone feels differently about it though.

a reply to: proteus33

Howdy,

Not all churches/denominations/religious groups that use the old testament require a tithe to be given to the church. You are correct that users of the New Testament often use "freewill offerings" instead of a tithe.
en.wikipedia.org...

Of course, this money goes to funding the church and supporting the institution, so I'd say give what you think you ought to give if you want to give it to support what you support. Personally, I find it appalling that some official would ask to see W2's and invade privacy like that, but it's not my place to make that judgment for you.

Sincere regards,
Hydeman

a reply to: proteus33

If anyone is asking to see your W2 I would abandon ship fast.

10% is biblical, but you are actually expected to just give what you can.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Passage please?

For future reference...

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Passage please?

For future reference...

There are so many, this is just a few, there are many.

Gen 14:20
And praise be to God Most High, who delivered your enemies into your hand.” Then Abram gave him a tenth of everything.

2Co 9:7
Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

Mar 12:41
Jesus sat down opposite the place where the offerings were put and watched the crowd putting their money into the temple treasury. Many rich people threw in large amounts.

Mar 12:42
But a poor widow came and put in two very small copper coins, worth only a few cents.

Mar 12:43
Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, “Truly I tell you, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others.

Mar 12:44
They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything—all she had to live on.”

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Fair enough... Lets not forget "give onto Caesar what is Caesar's"...

Though I would still say any church that demands money is fraudulent...

10% might be biblical... but even there it is not demanded

a reply to: Akragon

That is why I said both ...

If a church demands to see a W2, run, and, you are actually expected to give what you can, not 10%, although the 10% has biblical roots.

I think those 2 statements bring our statements closer together.

ETA: 2Cor 9:7 would actually make a church asking for a W2 UNBIBLICAL, and should immediately be shunned if they do not stop the practice.

a reply to: proteus33

Hi there.

There was only tithing in the days of The Old Covenant. It was a Hebrew thing to do with priestly matters as discussed in Leviticus.

We know what the New Covenant says about giving. It is a constant theme, not just about money. There is no written law about tithing any amount anywhere in the NT.

That is the problem with today's world. Everything is about money. All anybody wants is money.

Money is an insult and is unclean in Holy terms. It has no place with God.

a reply to: proteus33
"But now we are discharged from the law, dead to that which held us captive, so that we serve not under the old written code but in the new life of the Spirit" Romans ch7 v6
I believe that covers ALL the commands of the old written code, including tithing.

When Christians go looking in the Old Testament for statements which they can make obligatory commands, it's a symptom that they've lost sight of the "new covenant" nature of the Christian faith.

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Fair enough... Lets not forget "give onto Caesar what is Caesar's"...

Though I would still say any church that demands money is fraudulent...

10% might be biblical... but even there it is not demanded

Jesus asked what image was on the coin, it was Caesers image, render to Ceaser what is Ceasres.
We are made in Gods image, God wants us, our hearts, not our money. Jesus was not talking about money, he was talking about people
But then you dont believe we were created in Gods image so it goes begging

This reminds me of my favorite joke for Sundays in the restaurant industry...even Jesus only makes 10% from these guys

If someone is asking to look at your W2s, tell'em to shove it and get away from that church as fast as possible. If Heaven has a cover charge, pay as you go in.

originally posted by: proteus33
i live in the south and most of the churches and most of the people i know all tell me that god expects me to gibe him ten percent of my paycheck after taxes as a tithe. i know that tithing or taxes was done in the early bible because one of the communities abraham ruled had lost their crops at least i think it was abrham and he not god ordered a ten percent taxe be established where the other communities could help out that neighbor. and only levitire s could xould collect it . i thought all of that whent ou with the new testament and jesus kicking the tac collectors out of his fathers house. where i live some churches even demamd to see your w2s every year to make sure you are paying your share?
and tes i know my grammar sucks sorry

Isn't the real question why anyone would be stupid enough to believe it?

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Passage please?

For future reference...

There are so many, this is just a few, there are many.

Gen 14:20
And praise be to God Most High, who delivered your enemies into your hand.” Then Abram gave him a tenth of everything.

2Co 9:7
Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

Mar 12:41
Jesus sat down opposite the place where the offerings were put and watched the crowd putting their money into the temple treasury. Many rich people threw in large amounts.

Mar 12:42
But a poor widow came and put in two very small copper coins, worth only a few cents.

Mar 12:43
Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, “Truly I tell you, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others.

Mar 12:44
They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything—all she had to live on.”

Setting aside, for a moment, the fact that these quotes are from a storybook, none of them say to give money to a church. The Mark quotes simply point out that someone gave a lot, not that it was commanded by God.

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Passage please?

For future reference...

There are so many, this is just a few, there are many.

Gen 14:20
And praise be to God Most High, who delivered your enemies into your hand.” Then Abram gave him a tenth of everything.

2Co 9:7
Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

Mar 12:41
Jesus sat down opposite the place where the offerings were put and watched the crowd putting their money into the temple treasury. Many rich people threw in large amounts.

Mar 12:42
But a poor widow came and put in two very small copper coins, worth only a few cents.

Mar 12:43
Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, “Truly I tell you, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others.

Mar 12:44
They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything—all she had to live on.”

Setting aside, for a moment, the fact that these quotes are from a storybook, none of them say to give money to a church. The Mark quotes simply point out that someone gave a lot, not that it was commanded by God.

It's nice you think it's a storybook, your belief has nothing at all to do with the OP. The Mark quotes are specifically giving to the temple and Jesus praised her for it. 2 Cor 9:7 is them giving to the Church as well.

originally posted by: proteus33
i live in the south

Sorry, but south of where? What country do you live in?

My general advice would be to tell the Church where to shove it, even though I have Christian leanings myself. There's no excuse for theft and if this goes on then that's what it is. If the 10% is given voluntarily, then that's fine.

Regards

a reply to: proteus33

There is no "cover charge" to hear/feel/be in the Hunab Ku Bar, but folks keep looking outside of the Self and pay for the privilege. But be wary of the $$ changers or else 'they' will do what they did before, kill Jesus and pin it on His bff, Judas...

I live in Flori-Duh so it is pretty South and although there is a Church™ on every corner, I'm thinking that the Church™ will be like the Mom & Pop Shop and get swallowed up by a Walmart™ so folks can save .88¢ and then release their plastic bags to give Mother Earth the impression of 'curlers in Her hair' and not only change the $$$ but the color of the water from an Azure Blue to a Split Pea Green..

God is FREE!!! Jesus said "You ARE the Church™" so why go somewhere/place that You are already present?

It is a "racket" a tax-free racket, just like the NFL™..

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: proteus33
i live in the south and most of the churches and most of the people i know all tell me that god expects me to gibe him ten percent of my paycheck after taxes as a tithe. i know that tithing or taxes was done in the early bible because one of the communities abraham ruled had lost their crops at least i think it was abrham and he not god ordered a ten percent taxe be established where the other communities could help out that neighbor. and only levitire s could xould collect it . i thought all of that whent ou with the new testament and jesus kicking the tac collectors out of his fathers house. where i live some churches even demamd to see your w2s every year to make sure you are paying your share?
and tes i know my grammar sucks sorry

Isn't the real question why anyone would be stupid enough to believe it?

Because it's the truth. I can verify this is common practice at least in my area. Why I don't belong to a church.