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Illegal Property Tax on Churches

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posted on Dec, 14 2014 @ 05:40 PM
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This is actually a pretty fascinating topic. First of all most of you kno it's a non-profit organization if they completely and successfully fill out their 501(c)(3) form. This raises a few concerns for the church as far as having a direct line of divine contact for the "legal" inherited right to save people. To complete the 501(c)(3) form and get it approved, the legalesse basically forces the church owner to categorically admit and sign a few things, that would in a "religious" perspective of the church owners right to sign contracts, makes the church obsolete as a saving instrument of God. Filling the form for tax-exempt purposes basically means u claim that you are not your church, your church is now property of the STATE, and some other key points I saw in a YT video (although I did actually read the whole IRS form myself), making any "divine right" to save church-goers a task of the STATE, which they will not do. I'll try to find the video later, but if there's anything to worry about "orthodox-wise", this would be it, the 501(c)(3) form. In God's eyes, with your signed statements & contract in mind, that church is not under his denomination or reach as long as it's under these strange tax-exempt rules.

And come on people, "a church shouldn't be non-profit"???? Churches BARELY make money!!! And if they do while being tax-exempt, ALL of it must go to the church, and in no way can be spent on personal needs. You must be thinking about those televangelists, or the churches that like to stream their sermons now-a-days, and make low-budget movies. This is all done with the money they make, and therefore the more money that HAS to go to church projects. If someone is getting rich off of a church under tax-exemption, they are most likely breaking the law to do so. REMEMBER NOT ALL CHURCHES ARE TAX EXEMPT. THEY MUST COMPLETE AND GET APPROVED THEIR EXEMPT (501(c)(3)) FORM!




posted on Dec, 14 2014 @ 06:14 PM
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From my understanding, you can have a church that is tax exempt only if your church is registered as a legal, not for profit organization, then you are not taxed.
Other churches run on donations but are taxed like a business, but there is probably a number of things they could do like never earn any profits.

The big deal is a church that is tax exempt is under the threat from the government to pull that exemption. So if the tax exempt church preaches something that gets political, the government threatens them by revoking their not for profit status.

Personally, if I had a church, I would prefer to pay taxes and keep the freedom of speech in my church and the government out.



posted on Dec, 14 2014 @ 06:20 PM
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originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: deadeyedick

There's nothing wrong with paying a lawyer for representation. I wouldn't put it past the state to try to collect taxes illegally... that said, there's also nothing wrong with taxing churches that focus on politics.


There's nothing wrong with taxing churches as businesses, period. If they don't function as businesses, it won't hurt them. If they do, they pay for it. Problem solved.
edit on 14-12-2014 by Tangerine because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 14 2014 @ 06:22 PM
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originally posted by: olaru12
Would it be ok if I hold services in my home, declare it a church and avoid property taxes? Do you want to legislate what is a "true" religion, what constitutes a member of a church and who is authorized to hold services?

I should be able to get a few friends to come over to the double wide and sing and dance to garner favor from the force.


What's the difference between that and what passes for "organized" religion?


The collection plate and filing as a tax exempt organization.



posted on Dec, 14 2014 @ 06:27 PM
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originally posted by: Arrestme
This is actually a pretty fascinating topic. First of all most of you kno it's a non-profit organization if they completely and successfully fill out their 501(c)(3) form. This raises a few concerns for the church as far as having a direct line of divine contact for the "legal" inherited right to save people. To complete the 501(c)(3) form and get it approved, the legalesse basically forces the church owner to categorically admit and sign a few things, that would in a "religious" perspective of the church owners right to sign contracts, makes the church obsolete as a saving instrument of God. Filling the form for tax-exempt purposes basically means u claim that you are not your church, your church is now property of the STATE, and some other key points I saw in a YT video (although I did actually read the whole IRS form myself), making any "divine right" to save church-goers a task of the STATE, which they will not do. I'll try to find the video later, but if there's anything to worry about "orthodox-wise", this would be it, the 501(c)(3) form. In God's eyes, with your signed statements & contract in mind, that church is not under his denomination or reach as long as it's under these strange tax-exempt rules.

And come on people, "a church shouldn't be non-profit"???? Churches BARELY make money!!! And if they do while being tax-exempt, ALL of it must go to the church, and in no way can be spent on personal needs. You must be thinking about those televangelists, or the churches that like to stream their sermons now-a-days, and make low-budget movies. This is all done with the money they make, and therefore the more money that HAS to go to church projects. If someone is getting rich off of a church under tax-exemption, they are most likely breaking the law to do so. REMEMBER NOT ALL CHURCHES ARE TAX EXEMPT. THEY MUST COMPLETE AND GET APPROVED THEIR EXEMPT (501(c)(3)) FORM!


Apparently, you are unaware that being a non-profit doesn't preclude churches from paying million dollar salaries and buying all sorts of luxury goods, cars, homes, private planes, investing, etc.. The notion that churches barely make money is naive. Some make massive money.



posted on Dec, 14 2014 @ 06:29 PM
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originally posted by: MichiganSwampBuck
From my understanding, you can have a church that is tax exempt only if your church is registered as a legal, not for profit organization, then you are not taxed.
Other churches run on donations but are taxed like a business, but there is probably a number of things they could do like never earn any profits.

The big deal is a church that is tax exempt is under the threat from the government to pull that exemption. So if the tax exempt church preaches something that gets political, the government threatens them by revoking their not for profit status.

Personally, if I had a church, I would prefer to pay taxes and keep the freedom of speech in my church and the government out.


The problem is that the government rarely enforces it's regulations regarding non-profits when it comes to churches. They should enforce those regulations but the politicians are far too corrupt and gutless.



posted on Dec, 14 2014 @ 08:18 PM
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I would say this is a violation on separation of church and state but we all know how deep the church has infiltrated politics. The last president to deny the divinity and sacrifice of Jesus was William Howard Taft in 1909, and before him Lincoln. Christianity has deep roots in politics.

I say tax them, especially the mega churches, they're the biggest frauds of all. That would be a great economy booster.
edit on 12/14/2014 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 14 2014 @ 08:46 PM
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originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: Arrestme
This is actually a pretty fascinating topic. First of all most of you kno it's a non-profit organization if they completely and successfully fill out their 501(c)(3) form. This raises a few concerns for the church as far as having a direct line of divine contact for the "legal" inherited right to save people. To complete the 501(c)(3) form and get it approved, the legalesse basically forces the church owner to categorically admit and sign a few things, that would in a "religious" perspective of the church owners right to sign contracts, makes the church obsolete as a saving instrument of God. Filling the form for tax-exempt purposes basically means u claim that you are not your church, your church is now property of the STATE, and some other key points I saw in a YT video (although I did actually read the whole IRS form myself), making any "divine right" to save church-goers a task of the STATE, which they will not do. I'll try to find the video later, but if there's anything to worry about "orthodox-wise", this would be it, the 501(c)(3) form. In God's eyes, with your signed statements & contract in mind, that church is not under his denomination or reach as long as it's under these strange tax-exempt rules.

And come on people, "a church shouldn't be non-profit"???? Churches BARELY make money!!! And if they do while being tax-exempt, ALL of it must go to the church, and in no way can be spent on personal needs. You must be thinking about those televangelists, or the churches that like to stream their sermons now-a-days, and make low-budget movies. This is all done with the money they make, and therefore the more money that HAS to go to church projects. If someone is getting rich off of a church under tax-exemption, they are most likely breaking the law to do so. REMEMBER NOT ALL CHURCHES ARE TAX EXEMPT. THEY MUST COMPLETE AND GET APPROVED THEIR EXEMPT (501(c)(3)) FORM!


Apparently, you are unaware that being a non-profit doesn't preclude churches from paying million dollar salaries and buying all sorts of luxury goods, cars, homes, private planes, investing, etc.. The notion that churches barely make money is naive. Some make massive money.


I actually showed the opposite of naivety in that regard and mentioned how that's done illegally. Which is true, although I only lightly brushed upon it since the OP was not on this topic, and I felt the other avenue of my post would help him reach spiritual discernment regarding the tax exemption status. But since you insist, I'll cite some sources to explain for me what I believe to be a rough outline of today's tax exemption scandals regarding prosperity preaching (since article is from years ago, and many states have actually reevaluated their forms to tighten up loopholes and enforce regulations).


From www.i-newswire.com...

The group is asking Congress to once again review the Tax Exempt status of wealthy pastors as way of curbing abuse of the current Internal Revenue Code. The group is asking Congress to remove the Tax Exemption from Pastors salaries but keep the exemption in place for the purchases and activities of the Church.

A spokes person for the Church Folk Revolution says Preachers have manipulated the 501C3 status for their personal gain and it's time to put an end to the fleecing of religious organizations.

"If a Pastor buys a private Jet then that Jet becomes his personal Jet. If you would like to test this fact then ask a member of one of these Mega Churches if they can request that jet in order to fly to a job interview, it's not going to happen. With the use of scriptures and the 501C3 many pastors have built a revenue source that most major corporations would be very envious of."

The Church Folk Revolution says that they would like to see Congress remove the tax free status from Pastors salaries and create a grant with the funds collected. They would also like to see the revenue generated from the tax on Preacher Salaries used to rehab foreclosed mortgages held by Fannie Mae.

Basically this can go down like so: the gov says they won't monitor their income while remaining tax exempt only by playing by their rules. Including but not limited to not talking about current controversial issues like Israel especially for example, you have to let homosexuals & transvestites in, etc. IF you are found in violation of those terms, you lose your tax exemptions. That's just one example of how it will usually work in these MEGA churches.
What I was saying earlier, is that MOST church organizations will play by the rules, or are monitored very closely for keeping their own ideals on what to preach/etc. If it was so easy or diabolical, a LOT of churches regardless of denomination would have a mega church on every street corner. But we don't see that, and I hope that illustrates the point you so vehemently instigated from me.

BUT RIGHT NOW I'd like to get back on topic with what was, in my opinion, the OP's original tone of question. I've found a few links and info that I came across a while back & want to share if he has been reading thus far good for him/her. FOLLOW ME TO GET BACK ON TRACK TO MY NEXT POST FOR OP! IT'S ABOUT TO GET REALLY INTERESTING!!



posted on Dec, 14 2014 @ 09:06 PM
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To understand the contract you will be given to fill out & sign in the 501 (23), here's layman terms of what the legalese is reportedly saying. I MYSELF went through the NY States forms for non-profit organizations such as churches/etc. The contract language I witnessed was at the very least heavily synonymous with the following source. So here are the most "damning" sheet requirements you MUST agree to, among many other things ofc, to be tax exempt and become an official non-profit organization:


From www.creationliberty.com...

-The creator of your church is the State.
-The State is the sole authority and sovereign head over your church.
-Your church is subject to the laws of the State which limits its powers.
-Your church is an artificial person.
-Your church submits to a State Charter declaring it is a creature of the State.
-Your church is created for the benefit of the public.
-Your church is a State franchise.
-Your church is a privilege granted by the State.

Any Christian ought to be able to see the clear Biblical violations a 501c3 incorporated church is committing! Once a preacher has signed the papers, it does not matter who the pastor says his creator is when he's up on the pulpit, because he signed a document denouncing the Lord Jesus Christ as his creator, and put the state in His place. It does not matter who the pastor says is the sole authority and sovereign head over the church he's preaching at, because he signed a document declaring that the State has authority over the church of Christ. It does not matter who the pastor says gives Christian liberty, because he signed a document stating that no liberties can be taken within the church unless approved by state-granted privileges. The screams of violation to the Gospel are already deafening, and we have barely started looking into the depths of 501c3 status.

I understand it must be hard to decide if this is right for you. Far be it from me to judge whether this would realistically be a "phony church" in the eyes of the almighty. But it is strangely deceptive how it leaves your church in such a state where it would put your divine right to save souls in the name of Christ/etc in major jeopardy. The link for that last source has a lot more information, including your legal right to NOT need tax-exemption to begin with. Aside from the obvious unconstitutional taxation the government does without any written law requiring us to do so.

Here's the quote:

From www.creationliberty.com...

However, there are a few points we should note:
1) No U.S. law exists that requires anyone to file a federal income tax form.
2) Christ's Church is not a legally recognized entity, so it is already tax exempt.
3) Enticing to give via tax write-offs is not Biblical giving.

Since I first learned the truth about 501c3 churches, I have always wondered why any Christian would want to go to the government and get permission to be exempted from a tax they didn't owe to begin with. True New Testament churches are already exempt because they cannot be recognized as a legal entity.


I urge you to go over that website and reflect again on if there is a way around it. Or if you really need tax exemption anyway. I hope this information helped. I have zero experience in all of this, I just found it pretty intriguing having stumbled upon the topic. I'll leave you with the last quote from the same source, picking up where the former left off.


"I am not the only IRS employee who's wondered why churches go to the government and seek permission to be exempted from a tax they didn't owe to begin with, and to seek a tax deductible status that they've always had anyway. Many of us have marveled at how church leaders want to be regulated and controlled by an agency of government that most Americans have prayed would just get out of their lives. Churches are in an amazingly unique position, but they don’t seem to know or appreciate the implications of what it would mean to be free of government control."
-Steve Nestor, IRS Senior Officer, IRS Publication 526, quoted by Peter Kershaw, In Caesar's Grip, self-published, 2000; See also Thomas Lake, Romans 13 In a Constitutional Republic, Xlibris Corporation, 2011, p. 9, ISBN: 9781456846886


Cheers & God Bless!!
edit on 14-12-2014 by Arrestme because: '']['' [[]] [[]] ][_,



posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 03:19 AM
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a reply to: Arrestme

The topic is taxing churches. The eagerness with which most churches jump on the tax free bandwagon should be a red flag alerting you to the reality that they're all about the money. For some reason you think warning churches and talking about so-called spiritual discernment is going to make them actually care about anything else. And who are "they" anyway?



posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 04:07 AM
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originally posted by: Tangerine
a reply to: Arrestme

The topic is taxing churches. The eagerness with which most churches jump on the tax free bandwagon should be a red flag alerting you to the reality that they're all about the money. For some reason you think warning churches and talking about so-called spiritual discernment is going to make them actually care about anything else. And who are "they" anyway?


Spiritual discernment in fact does concern most members of the church bud, even with a hunger for tax exemption believe it or not. But you're mistaken anyhow, I've no agenda in "preaching to the choir", as this information is NOT common knowledge. You would agree that if there are those who choose NOT to hear it, they're probably the ones that should the most. AMEN?


You may very well speak for the majority who u theorize "won't care", but such is not the case with the original poster, as he pointed out & so will I; Please read our posts before responding bud! Then you won't have to guess what each pronoun refers to. Let's give him a chance to respond tho, I'd hate to hijack his thread just for it to derail.



posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 08:41 AM
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originally posted by: stirling
TAX EM.....! LOOK AT THE TAX ON LIQUOR AND SMOKES.....TAX EM ITS THE SAME THING.....
Its high time!


They exist out of donations of people tithed who already paid taxes. So no I don't agree. Nor do I believe in any form of property taxes for anyone.
edit on 15-12-2014 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 08:44 AM
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Is this just happening? Church's aren't taxed but some counties are "mistakenly" taxing them? Sounds like some kind of tithe from Muslim friendly government officials who think the US is their country.

So they're forcing Church's to lawyer up?



posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 09:53 AM
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a reply to: deadeyedick

Churches should pay tax like any other business, it doesn't make sence how they get a free ride while every one else has to pay.

If they can't pay they should shut down like any other business.



posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 10:11 AM
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a reply to: stirling

I agree. It is time to tax them. They have stuck their righteous nose into politics, disobeying Jesus doing so.



posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 10:19 AM
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a reply to: Arrestme

my opinion is that if they desire to answer to jesus rather than the state, then they can pray for their electricity and gas and other expenditures instead of getting a free ride from the state. if jesus is who they answer to, let jesus look after them. if all of their costs do not magically take care of themselves, perhaps thats an omen.



posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 06:39 PM
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originally posted by: Unity_99

originally posted by: stirling
TAX EM.....! LOOK AT THE TAX ON LIQUOR AND SMOKES.....TAX EM ITS THE SAME THING.....
Its high time!


They exist out of donations of people tithed who already paid taxes. So no I don't agree. Nor do I believe in any form of property taxes for anyone.


When you stay at a motel, you pay taxes on top of the cost of renting the room. When you buy clothes, you pay sales tax. Why shouldn't you pay your share of the taxes for YOUR church? Why should people who don't go to YOUR church have to pay for a share of the property taxes for YOUR church?



posted on Dec, 17 2014 @ 11:25 AM
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To the posters providing links and info on topic i give you a million thanks. To the posters ignoring the op from the start you are disrespectful to the site and me. It is bs such as you have displayed that makes this site no longer what it was. It shows that your hate is stronger than your intellect.

Since you have made this thread about what you want and other posters have graciously answered my querries lets go with it now.

WHY DO YOU SUPPORT ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES THAT HURT COMMUNITIES YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT?

Even if you do have a point about taxes on churches none of you have posted any comments that are on point with changing anything. It is all just nonsense that does not highlight the reality of the current laws. Not one single poster going for taxing the churches in any way posted a coherrent comment that would even begin to convince one of your belief.

After researching it i believe now that any building that is used regulary for people to gather and worship should never have to pay a tax on that building or surrounding owned land for parking and out side worship and cemetaries and they should never have to get any permit of file but just simply ignore the irs and gov in that sense. I believe that any thing beyond that scope should be taxed and should be seperate from those exclusions meaning that the current 501c3 mess works just fine and those that go that route should be under the federal tit just as they are.


For clairity the county in tx this is happening is bowie and it is no one single church but comes down to a change in county leadership and looks like they are putting the fixins on the hot potatoe before it is passed on to the next person to deal with.

As far as the origional topic on the spiritual battle i stand by my thought that if this happens to you then the number one thing that "ceaser wants is for you to invoke his arms in an attempt to get him to battle for you. Laywering up is exactly what they want one to do so that you will lose the battle before it starts. You turn to GOD and make a stand and if you need more than that GOD will provide it for you. It is a true test of faith and very much a spiritual battle that is designed to turn you from GOD just as the 501c3 is designed to turn you and gain power over you.

The times are short now and we must awaken to the fact that battles are happening all around us. Jusy when we believe we are listening to the corrrect voice we very well could be ignoring the true voice of GOD.



posted on Dec, 17 2014 @ 01:32 PM
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originally posted by: deadeyedick

After researching it i believe now that any building that is used regulary for people to gather and worship should never have to pay a tax on that building or surrounding owned land for parking and out side worship and cemetaries and they should never have to get any permit of file but just simply ignore the irs and gov in that sense. I believe that any thing beyond that scope should be taxed and should be seperate from those exclusions meaning that the current 501c3 mess works just fine and those that go that route should be under the federal tit just as they are.

.


You do realize, don't you, that the taxpayers pay the property taxes for YOUR church. The taxpayers pay for the curb and gutter and road in front of that church and firefighting services, etc. for YOUR church. It's not like no one pays for it. The question is why we, the taxpayers, should have to pay for YOUR church? It's not ours, it's YOURS. Do you also realize that a group of people don't need to own a building and land in order to gather together and worship? If they don't want to take the responsibility that should come with doing that, they can meet in each other's homes or rent space to meet.



posted on Dec, 17 2014 @ 03:49 PM
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a reply to: Tangerine

Your ignorrance is rabid. I have no church nor am i a member of a church. The one church local to me that was part of the illegal taxing is down a dirt road that is poorly graded and it can be safely said that not one tax payer dime has gone toward any part of it's presence. There is not even a culvert at the drive. This is the case with many churches. If you bothered to read my response you would see that i am in favor of taxing other parts of things that are being tied to worship. I feel that limiting the non tax to the actual church building and assoiated parking and adjacent land and cemetaries should be the limits of non tax. Your rabid hatrid that does not find compromise or account for the values the country was founded on will continue to warp your view of life here in America.




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