How weird is this? Possibly billions of parents lie to their children about a mytical being. Not g

I don't see a problem with it.

Yes, it may be strange that Western society props up an image of Santa, an individual who had his iconic looks cemented in our psyches by Coca-Cola. But to be honest, telling children of his existence doesn't do much, if any, harm at all. It could be considered as lying, but i think the benefits of making Christmas more exciting for children outweigh the negative aspects. Really, who wants to miss out on all the mysteries and fun that could be had? I'd rather be a child and have a more 'magical' Christmas than be a child who doesn't have as much fun because i miss out on the stories and excitement.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: hutch622

I remember when i first found out that Santa was not real .

Your mileage may vary. Who told you?

I told my younger brother. He began to suspect on his own and I was caught between my parents, who I knew would over react an be angry with me for telling him, and my brother who bugged me incessantly until I did tell him. My parents accuse me of "ruining Christmas" that year.

I was told from memory by a friend who had older brothers and sisters .

When enough people believe in something they can create it in their minds, ie: servitors, egregores(look into chaos magick). While it may not exist as a physical, living, and breathing entity.. Santa Clause is very real to many people(mostly children, and an x of mine.).

Back on topic, I think the discovery of our monetary system and how it really works was a much more damaging truth to uncover for my psyche.

originally posted by: droid56
To me, this is a symptom of a sick culture. Many millions of parents support this lie. My parents did. Your parents did.
Lying to our children doesn't set a good president since being lied to established the world of the sheeple that dominates.

I know you want to criticize this post, but maybe that is because you, like me, are a victim of cultural conditioning. Who is responsible for this manipulatin is the big question. You may now return to decorating your tree.

So its bad and we should be ashamed to keep this conspiracy rolling but there are elements that wont endorse public exposure on ones such as Tonkin or Liberty to name a few.
You say it's a lie, do you have a source?

BuT it's ok to tell your kids about a mythical God, who knows their inner most thoughts and will send them to hell fire should they go against his wishes

originally posted by: droid56
To me, this is a symptom of a sick culture. Many millions of parents support this lie. My parents did. Your parents did.

And this from a person on ATS of all places. That almost made choke on my tea.

ATS is overflowing with lies and people actively trying to endorse them. But that's allright because some of the stories MIGHT be true.

Santa is like BigFoot. He is there but no one has any proof.

Anyone not wishing to lie to there children should take note the next time there child gets creative.

The next time they come up with a picture they have made DO NOT LIE because lying is wrong, instead be critical and point out how utterly rubbish it it.

Explain perspective to them, the importance of colour, take them to an art exhibition and show them what real paintings look like.

And if you see you child pretending to be a fireman then be sure to point out that they could not possibly be a fireman as they do not have the strength, intelligence and composure to perform such complex tasks and make them stop right away.

Might as well show the child a coffin on his / her 4th birthday and say this is we're u will be in 60 years there's just loads of bs in between . Sad bastard

Yes and don't forget to point out the likleyhood of the time in the middle being riddled with ilness, trauma, oppression and financial insecurity.

a reply to: Denoli

a reply to: intrptr

' "carry on" the ritual '

you mean a tradition?

It is pretty much impossible to be so clear cut with reality and fantasy with children under 6 and even harder to explain it.

a reply to: droid56

Christmas is all about conditioning and socialising children into the corporate system. Things make you happy. Mommy and Daddy must compete and get into as much debt as possible so you are better than your neighbours.

I don't celebrate Christmas. There is nothing truly Christian about it. It is a horrible time of people pretending to be nice when the rest of the year they behave like (well I will not say).

Christ would hate the way we do it. The red and white thingy is a figment of imagination. I would not want any child of mine believing in crap like that, no matter what age.

Happy Christmas...NOT.

ps. Please remember that MOST people in the world do not celebrate Christmas. They just tolerate the decadent West acting all capitalist and pretending they are so compassionate and charitable.

Hypocrite.

If you don't believe me just analyse how many loan adverts there are on TV right now. You know the crazy loans with huge Apr rates.

It is a lot of hype and silliness with some nasty consequences for the poor who try to live up to the hype that these stupid societies impose upon them.

Hang Saturnalia. It has nothing to do with Jesus.

EDIT; Day two of giving up smoking. Abort, abort, have turned into a psycho.

NUTHER EDIT; Did Christ say "Do this in remembrance of me"? No he bloody well did not.

And by the way coca cola didn't give Santa the red suit !
That's just bs it was Tomas Nast

I don't think it's of such great import to the average 5 year old to discover the true identity of the person who procures all their toys.

In any case, most kids seem to have it figured by age 7 (I'd be about that age when I began to entertain skepticism, aided no doubt by my school buddies). Really, it doesn't take that much brain power to work out that it's probably your mum and dad.

It's your first bump on the rocky ride of reality.

But it's not so bad that we need to exorcise this lovely grandfather figure from our earliest memories.

originally posted by: Denoli
And by the way coca cola didn't give Santa the red suit !
That's just bs it was Tomas Nast

No, but Coca-Cola aided in solidifying the modern interpretation of Santa. Before Coca-Cola, Santa had many iterations, among them, the one we all know - the big jolly man in a red suit. Coca-Cola ran with that image in its holiday advertisements, which greatly influenced the public's perception of Santa. It's no coincidence that Santa, while having many different forms before Coca-Cola, became universally recognised in the modern iteration after Coca-Cola invested much into advertising.

Christmas is what you make it.

If the mindless masses choose to get into even more debt buy buying into the comercial propaghanda then thats entirely up to them.

If someone chooses to break the monotomy of winter with a festive family feast and some well thought out gifts with a little magic thrown in for the kids then how can that be a bad thing?

a reply to: lonesomerimbaud

a reply to: nonspecific

It would not be a bad thing, if you call a spade a spade!

This horrid little hybrid it has become is vomit worthy. That is how I feel because it is forced upon me so aggressively by the culture I live in. Stop shoving it down my throat. I don't do that. I don't shove who I am down people's throats. I try to avoid them, lol. I don't like anything that says you must behave this way because everyone else is.

Honestly, if I told people here that I would not have my child EVER believing in this nonsense they would get all irrational and angry with me, just because I decided not to lie to my child. Minds are precious to me.

Please remember, Santa was made up only a few hundred years ago. We managed the other million quite happily without it.

Here is how our precious Christmas came into being, from The History of Christmas:

"II. How Did Christmas Come to Be Celebrated on December 25?

A. Roman pagans first introduced the holiday of Saturnalia, a week long period of lawlessness celebrated between December 17-25. During this period, Roman courts were closed, and Roman law dictated that no one could be punished for damaging property or injuring people during the weeklong celebration. The festival began when Roman authorities chose “an enemy of the Roman people” to represent the “Lord of Misrule.” Each Roman community selected a victim whom they forced to indulge in food and other physical pleasures throughout the week. At the festival’s conclusion, December 25th, Roman authorities believed they were destroying the forces of darkness by brutally murdering this innocent man or woman.

B. The ancient Greek writer poet and historian Lucian (in his dialogue entitled Saturnalia) describes the festival’s observance in his time. In addition to human sacrifice, he mentions these customs: widespread intoxication; going from house to house while singing naked; rape and other sexual license; and consuming human-shaped biscuits (still produced in some English and most German bakeries during the Christmas season).

C. In the 4th century CE, Christianity imported the Saturnalia festival hoping to take the pagan masses in with it. Christian leaders succeeded in converting to Christianity large numbers of pagans by promising them that they could continue to celebrate the Saturnalia as Christians.[2]

D. The problem was that there was nothing intrinsically Christian about Saturnalia. To remedy this, these Christian leaders named Saturnalia’s concluding day, December 25th, to be Jesus’ birthday.

E. Christians had little success, however, refining the practices of Saturnalia. As Stephen Nissenbaum, professor history at the University of Massachussetts, Amherst, writes, “In return for ensuring massive observance of the anniversary of the Savior’s birth by assigning it to this resonant date, the Church for its part tacitly agreed to allow the holiday to be celebrated more or less the way it had always been.” The earliest Christmas holidays were celebrated by drinking, sexual indulgence, singing naked in the streets (a precursor of modern caroling), etc.

F. The Reverend Increase Mather of Boston observed in 1687 that “the early Christians who first observed the Nativity on December 25 did not do so thinking that Christ was born in that Month, but because the Heathens’ Saturnalia was at that time kept in Rome, and they were willing to have those Pagan Holidays metamorphosed into Christian ones.”[3] Because of its known pagan origin, Christmas was banned by the Puritans and its observance was illegal in Massachusetts between 1659 and 1681.[4] However, Christmas was and still is celebrated by most Christians.

G. Some of the most depraved customs of the Saturnalia carnival were intentionally revived by the Catholic Church in 1466 when Pope Paul II, for the amusement of his Roman citizens, forced Jews to race naked through the streets of the city. An eyewitness account reports, “Before they were to run, the Jews were richly fed, so as to make the race more difficult for them and at the same time more amusing for spectators. They ran… amid Rome’s taunting shrieks and peals of laughter, while the Holy Father stood upon a richly ornamented balcony and laughed heartily.”[5]

H. As part of the Saturnalia carnival throughout the 18th and 19th centuries CE, rabbis of the ghetto in Rome were forced to wear clownish outfits and march through the city streets to the jeers of the crowd, pelted by a variety of missiles. When the Jewish community of Rome sent a petition in1836 to Pope Gregory XVI begging him to stop the annual Saturnalia abuse of the Jewish community, he responded, “It is not opportune to make any innovation.”[6] On December 25, 1881, Christian leaders whipped the Polish masses into Antisemitic frenzies that led to riots across the country. In Warsaw 12 Jews were brutally murdered, huge numbers maimed, and many Jewish women were raped. Two million rubles worth of property was destroyed."


Now you see why I don't want to engage in any of this Saturnalia repackaged nonsense. Ho ho ho!

I would like to point out that I am not a cristian and do not really like christmas.

I do not like the commecialism and also don't like having it rammed down my throat but I can not avoid it so choose to ignore it.

I do not watch tv and avoid shopping where possible so I minimise it's interference with my life.

So while I agree with you on one part I still have no problem with my son enjoying the wonder of christmas as a celebration and the existance of santa clause.

We have a very small family so an extra guy with a gift and the whole putting out a drink and a carrot for the reindeers and listening for bells is something I do for his benifit and put my own synical humbug sucking views on the back burner for 3 days out of 365.

He loves it.

a reply to: lonesomerimbaud

originally posted by: lonesomerimbaud
a reply to: nonspecific



Please remember, Santa was made up only a few hundred years ago. We managed the other million quite happily without it.

You could apply that to the internet, pain killers and cental heating but I don't want to live without them.

Thanks for the history bty I did not know about all that.

Are you the grinch op, it brings children joy,