The New Face of War: A Picture of the Opening Salvo of a Potential New World War

a reply to: Hefficide

Very well then. As long as people quit naively believing that map shows us anything related to the attackers their selves.

I'm just playing my part to try and bring awareness that it shows us very little.

Carry on.

a reply to: Hefficide

This will never occur, at least not on mass. The computers we use and the connections they make are no more intelligent then the people who made them and the people who make such machines and digital attacks are all but the same. There is genius minds throughout the world and majority of those individuals are employed by the country they live in. They are all butting heads at the same time, all the time and there is a digital war going on as we speak but no one has complete control because no system is ever 100% secure meaning everyone has a piece of the pie if they wish to eat from it. The Internet is not connected to one system as this, known by anyone who is network savvy is the worst design topology there could be.

a reply to: BlackProject

If I'm reading your post right, then you are informed but misinterpreting. Because of the fact that the Internet is not a singular entity the ability to knock entire nations offline, exclusively, does exist. It happened to Sweden last week.

In reality, ICANN could simply shut down RNS/DNS and what we know as the "Internet" - meaning the web, would instantly die worldwide. Most people do not realize that the web is only one facet of a much larger structure.

a reply to: Hefficide

You can still dail in via IP. It would bring down the "internet as we know it", but the physical network infrastructure, and internet protocol in TCP/IP stack, would still be operational.

It was a problem with a top level registar updating .se domains. The equivalent would be .us, and most domains in the US are not .us, they are .com, and even then, many .com are outside the us, and we use many, many more.

So it couldn't happen here. We have too many physical interconnects for it to happen physically, and too top-level domain names in utilization for it to happen via DNS errors.

a reply to: pl3bscheese

Understood and agreed, but what percentage of computer users would have the first clue about any of that? There aren't many of us out here left who've had to configure a winsock.

a reply to: Hefficide

People are lazy; however, if you told them they couldn't get to facebook, or twitter without copy pasting a ;ine every once in a while, they'd learn real how to dail in via IP.

I know you know this to be true!

I would imagine someone would make a killing off the propagation of a little script that floods the /etc/hosts file with the top 1,000 domains to be linked via IP. Imagine that going viral.

a reply to: pl3bscheese

Since we're off on this tangent - I think they'd miss Windows / Mac / PC far less than if something took down Android and iPhones.

That's when people would fetal ball.

Star & Flag for this thread.

I may add my own 0.02 to this: We been seeing these attacks for the last 3 weeks and I do believe that they targeted towards businesses in the United States, and over the past week the amount has been increased by factor 10 and considering how many small and even large businesses are ill-prepared (see Sony Pictures) I believe that these attacks are very effective.

Now, the OP has a very valid point - the true implications will be the halt of commerce will affect everything like a domino game. Look at Sony Pictures - they already in the state where they have to put their primary business on pause - Filming. The long-term implications are not even considered right now because everyone is in panic mode. Now think about when this reaches the banks, local retailers (Target is under attack right now), etc.

Christmas is around the corner and if you like it or not but it's highly important for our economy that christmas shopping runs smoothly. Now this attack started around Thanksgiving - and it's probably not a coincident.

this is a MUST watch for every one~! 3 million hits+, this is more for those that don't think this can be real .. and think that the Noreast Blackout of 2003 was due to a ...'Tree falling across the wire.."..

Great thread Heff~!



(for the those that can't view the video .. you'll have to head to your local library to really understand how deep today's and yesterdays, technology can be use to hack and crack most 'security' systems')

I might have been given a reason to why the US are being targeted. Is a bit complicated for me to talk about this because its not really my Field.

The thing is that Ukraine have about 3 weeks of savings left in the Bank. After that Ukraine is broke to the bone. IMF must bail out the Ukrainan economy within two or Three weeks. This will create a mountain of problems for the EU and IMF.

The UK have about 11 weeks of assets left in the Bank. That is just short of Three moths Worth, after that the UK is broke.

France is broke and so are all the other EU nations except Sweden and Germany. When IMF bails out Ukraine a inflasion Train will start to roll within the EU. And that will criple the EU because Germany and Sweden dont have the assets to resupply the IMF alone.

The US are being targeted because of their economy. The US are being monitord for their ability to keep Ukraine above ground economically after the IMF have bailed out Ukraine.

After New year the US are going to have to start to plan for how they are going to pay of their 18 trillion dollar intrestrate. If the US are going to have an internal argument about this like they have had these last cople of years. And maybe shut Down their government. Ukraine might fall into Russian hands.

Asia/China are very interested in how strong economically the US are going to be when the IMF bails out the Ukraine.

That is if the IMF bails out the Ukraine. But if they dont we will lose Ukraine before summer. Besides Russia.... only the US have interest towards Ukraine.


Some might Wonder why Putin is loughing? Russia have Dollar savings in the Bank to last them 1,7 years at current market rates.

I couldn't agree more about this post, it's unbelievable how delicate this way of life is.

Thanks for the thread Heff!
I just got around to reading it because like some earlier posters I'd seen the title and said, "If I have some extra time I'll check that out." Now, had I read it last night I would likely have seen that it was about cyberspace and computers and would have given it a quick scan. But when I opened it and began to read I realized that this attack is the very thing that kept us from having excellent companionship at brunch today.
One of our oldest and dearest friends is the top IT guy for a nation-wide trucking company. I'm not sure how many trucks they have on the road at any one time but it is thousands and thousands. Naturally, this is one of their busiest times of year with deliveries needing to be on schedule. We have a long-standing custom of Sunday brunch with him and a few other friends.
He called at noon to say he was collapsing on the couch in his office. He's been in this war for 35 hours and has their system up again but wasn't confident that it would last. I had no idea what war he was talking about, falsely assuming that he must be referring to some internal strife within the business or his eternal war with "stoooopid, low-bid people posing as IT experts." I could hear the exhaustion in his voice so I bid him "Sleep well." and urged him to come by on his way home and pick up some of the goodies left over from our brunch.
He did and told me far more than I could understand about these attacks. (To me the internet and computers and how they work are like magic----and I adore the wizards that can command that magic. I'm not one of them and have no wish to dabble.)
Our buddy is not typically a conspiracy-minded sort of fellow but he is convinced that somebody is poking at first one sector and then another, probing for something.
They are poking at several different forms of transportation it seems, some rail deliveries were late and it was reported that the "computers were down" as the reason for delayed trains. Some air deliveries were showing the same reports. It seems that the Sony thing has snarffed up the media attention but that's only a tiny pixel of the big picture.
It took him nearly seven hours to get his system back up and running. That's a huge gap of time for truck drivers trying to connect with loads. It ran for about 3 hours and crashed again.
He didn't express any opinion on who might be doing this beyond the thought that it is some group of really sharp people who want to disrupt the entire transportation system. I doubt if he even knew about the gaming sites going down because he didn't mention them.
After reading this thread I have a little better understanding of what he was saying. I'll be looking forward to others' input and to talking further with my friend after he's had a bit of rest. Thanks all!

originally posted by: Hefficide
For the last day or two most of us have noticed that the Internet is not behaving as the Internet should. Sites are going offline, slowing down, disappearing altogether for protracted periods of time. Even this site was taken offline for a fair amount of time last night, along with many of the other sites that deal with similar topics.

Those of us who are at least a little computer experienced or literate understand that events, like these, are usually caused by attacks known as Distributed Denial of Service attacks - or DDoS in shorthand. If robbery is the risk of owning a bank or a store - then DDoS is the equivalent for cyberspace.

Ooooooooh, scary stuff: sites going down, and the Interwebz slowing down. Never experienced that before...

You write that events like this are usually caused by DDoS but you don't say they were in this case. Are you seriously suggesting that most all such slowdowns and sites going offline are caused by this?

You do realize that sites go down for maintenance sometimes or that other problems can bring a site down or put a crimp in the Intertübz.

I am fully cognizant of the potential for cyber warfare, but it is also possible to fight back or take countermeasures.

And no, DDoS attacks aren't the equivalent of nuclear attacks. Many sites and organizations have been attacked by DDoS, and they are vaporized and in rubble, and the site owners and workers haven't been turned to ash and aren't suffering from radiation poisoning. Such hyperbole is obviously meant to stir up the conspiracy-nut crowd, and likely for click counts too. You've had very good threads in the past, but this is really weak sauce.

And of course most of the usual conspiracy suspects are chiming in with how this is such a spot-on post.

Threads like these, their proliferation here and all the people who parrot this horse pucky are why I spend less and less time at this site.

a reply to: Hefficide

This premise of this thread is so random and exxagerated.

DDoS attacks are an ongoing thing so I don't see why the attacks of the last few days are suddenly the "opening salvo of the new WW3"

This episode of attacks wasn't even picked up in the news apart from the Sony stuff.

Imagine if you woke tomorrow with no electricity, phone, Internet, natural heating gas or cable. When you left the house you quickly discovered that every POS ( point of sale ) machine in the country was down ( cash registers, ATM's etc ). Then you slowly came to understand that every aspect of your financial life NOT on hard copy had simply disappeared. Money, property, medical insurance, prescriptions, etc. How long could a society without infrastructure last before giving into the demands of the power behind such an attack? My guess is not very long at all. Starting over is not an option simply due to the logistics. A nation locked down by cyberwar is a nation powerless to be and the resources to fend off such an attack, ironically, have almost the same exact effect as the attack itself. It would shut it all down - to keep it secure.

Scary picture you paint there. I still don't see how we arrive at this scenario when refering to the relatively insignificant attacks of the last few days.

Like I said DDos attacks are going on all the time, but now that ATS was hit you suddenly had to write this thread, when you had lots of opportunities before in the past year, if you are going to base it on a random episode of DDoS attacks.

Never let a good crisis go to waste I guess.

It took SO like 12 hours and some cash to get this site up and running again, as I understand it. You act like vital internet infrastructure is completely defenseless and your notion that a country can be shut down like that is, like you alluded to yourself, ridiculous. Especially when it was inspred by the recent attacks specifically.

Sorry but this thread is unfounded sensational fearmongering.

We don't even know who was behind these latest attacks, so how can you claim a WW3 connection? It sure sounds interesting, I know.

Also, it looks to me like ATS was a definate target.

What other sites went down?

a reply to: MrInquisitive

You seem to have overlooked the fact that such attacks can shut down a nations infrastructure. As it did ( for the dozenth time ) recently in Sweden.

Slow Internet is no issue. Total or near total decimation of the ability for networks to communicate is equal to a total shutdown of commerce.

But your valuable input is appreciated.

a reply to: Hefficide

They did take down the largest ISP in Sweden, for 45mins.

They said that LizardSquad was responsible.

Was that the pre opening shot of new style WW3?

a reply to: KevinKersplatter

That amongst other things, like the Sony hack - and Sony hiring private botnets in retaliation. The substantial increase in DDoS attacks over the past year - rising sharply recently.

This has been building for several months as a quick Google search will demonstrate. And it is, IMO, the future of high end warfare. Not to mention the black market for botnets growing at a rate and price that matches that of arms smugglers.

a reply to: Hefficide

Yes, like I said it has been ongoing.

Using Sony as an example doesn't really back up the theory that it is part of a world war. It's a group of hackers taking on a company and subsequently bringing down the whole ISP in the case of Sweden.

So why all the WW3 hoopla? What opening shot?

Why not call the thread "DDoS attacks getting more frequent"?

Btw what other sites like ATS were downed?

a reply to: KevinKersplatter

GLP was down as well, not that they are anything like ATS, but they discuss similar topics.

a reply to: Hefficide

Dear ATS reader, you are looking directly at Shock and Awe V.2. A weapon that can cripple and destroy infrastructure without killing a single blade of grass. Invisible missles that can shut entire nations down and keep the United States allegorical promise of "bombing a nation back to the stone age". Ladies and Gentlemen, I give to you the new face of war.

I mean come on.