a reply to: AlephBet
Neighbor I am afraid you are still missing the point. While there may be some borrowed words in ancient Greek, and Latin from Hebrew, there were also
a great many borrowed words the Hebrews took from Greek, and Latin. Indeed if you want to jump to modern languages English has a few words from Hebrew
and I am not seeing the ones you are implying are using the AMN consonant pattern which you claim to be important to this argument.
Lets do a little walk down the “genetics” of language. English is ostensibly a Germanic language. Germanic languages are all Indo-European.
Similarly Middle English was heavily influenced by French, an Italic language (one of the “Romance languages”) also an Indo-European Language. We
however speak modern English. Modern English is again an Indo-European Language.
Hebrew is a west Semitic member of the Afro-asiatic Language family. They are not Indo-European languages, and mixing between them are very minimal.
Beyond this they would have separated from various (extinct) protolanguages they may have shared many many thousands of years back.
That is the ground work. The simple version of those two paragraphs is “they are unrelated languages”
Now inside language families you can have such variances that it these languages which are “genetically” related seem foreign to one another, you
can also have some strange word etymologies. I am going to pick on one here to illustrate.
The reconstructed Proto Indo-European (PIE) word *ghosti (the * implies it is reconstructed, and all protolanguages are indeed reconstrucrted) has
several modern English words which trace back to it.
Guest and Host may seem obvious, as they have an implied relationship to one another, and indeed *ghosti has a deeper meaning associated with these
interrelated words, but lets look at ghost. Ghost did not use to mean “spirit” or similar. It meant “stranger”. Strangers were to be shown
hospitality, and were expected to be good guests. Thus when two groups of Indo-European herders passed each other, and they had not ever met. One
would host the other (and the other would guest). They stopped being strangers after that point; they were no longer “ghosts”. Thus as you can
see, words change meaning. Another example would be the word nice. It used to mean “strange” and was not a compliment if you were called it.
Thus, when you embark on these little attempts to force the square Semitc concept into the round Indo-European framework, you really are achieving
nothing but missing the point. The Greek and Latin peoples of the time you are talking about were firmly paleopagan. They were very nationalistic (or
city stateistic for the Greeks), and the Isralites did not impress them much. Only the Bible (which is known to be a very dubious source of actual
history) seems to make out Israel as an important player in the middle east. It was not.
Thus for better or worse the consonants in Hebrew which equate to AMN made very little if any impact on the Indo-European languages which we speak
Now as you’ve dodged this next point, I’m going to directly address your misrepresentation of modern esoteric systems of worship.
First no I am not unbiased, I am a Neopagan Druid, and Celtic Reconstructionist. I belong to the Largest Druid Order founded in the US, which is the
second largest order in the world.
Now to your points:
Witchcraft and Other Esoteric Belief Systems such as Wicca
1) 1) Must be recommended for membership by other members.
Untrue. It will depend on the lineage of Witchcraft/Wicca, and many other groups are open to all. Mine included.
2) Screening for Membership
Also Untrue and this is a redundant point given your point (1). Many groups as I said are open to all. What will happen is if someone turns out to be
toxic, they will be asked to leave, then if they refuse, removed. This is not that common as many modern pagans are very conflict averse, and thus
allow unhealthy individuals to remain.
3) Hoodwinked (Blindfolded) / Spear to Chest
Uhhh no. Where the hell did you get this?
4) Bound by Rope to Magic Circle
Again no. Where did you get this?
Both of these points might have been sensationally depicted by either the tabloid media, television, or some of the more “fame focused” people of
the 1950s and 1960s, but I’ve never come across either in my 30 plus years in paganism. Thus I call BS.
5) Keeling to High Priest
Well that would depend on the Pagan path involved. In my Druid order, we have one dogma officially (several others in reality but meh) and that is the
Arch Druid (and Clergy) are fallible. We do not kneel. Similarly most Wiccans don’t. Its dependent on the group, not the norm.
6) Blood Oath for revealing hidden secrets
Most pagans are very adverse to blood. Thus no. No it does not happen. There are exceptions but those blood oaths are to the gods, and between the
individuals and the deities, not the Covens, Groves, and Circles and the individuals.
7)End Ritual with, "So Mote it Be."
Again group dependent. Where are you getting this? You also missed that the groups that end that way have a “challenge” to enter ritual circle,
“how do you enter” which should be replied with “in perfect love and perfect trust”. I don’t do either of these nor does my group, but many
8) Hidden Knowledge at the Heart of Ritual
Any ritual Abrahamic, or not, has hidden meaning. You have a point?
9) Secret Society with membership rolls are secret
Yeah not so much. In the beginning Gardner, Sanders etc encouraged this as the media were a bunch of idiots who liked to sensationalize it all, and
people just did not openly advertise it. Similarly Christians did this in the early years, communists during the McCarthy era, and homosexuals for
years. When people are made scape goats they hide. However you could find my name on my orders website under the membership role. This is secret how?
I’m not going to advertise it, I don’t like being Doxed by trolls
10) Ceremonial initiations to pass from one degree to another, including sworn oaths
So? I had a ritual when I finished my PhD, and special clothing for it too. Its part of life.
11) Ceremonial purging and purification of ritual space before commencing any ritual work
Not always true.
12) Secret Passwords and Hand Signs
DAFQ??? Where did you get that?
13) Both work from correspondences between spiritual and physical world
None of which are unique to all paganism.
Thus I have to ask, what makes you think you are qualified to speak to Paganism/Witchcraft/Esoteric paths?
If you are wondering how the language and pagan thing fit together? Its really very simple, words have power, and I follow an Indo-European path, the
term *ghosti is important in that path.