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The Place of Origin

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posted on Dec, 18 2014 @ 07:36 AM
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a reply to: Kantzveldt

Thank you once again for your informative reply ...

Much of what you write about is new to me and I must admit I find it difficult to absorb all of it ...

My intention is to add to what you write about on this thread with fragments I have gathered ...
However you are obviously well researched ... I tend to be eclectic in the gathering of information and take on what rings true to me ... sometimes of course I get things wildly wrong but accept that when it happens for it can lead to a better understanding ... I never to try to prove anything to others as I feel we can only prove things to ourselves ... IE we find our own proof ...

I noted in one of your earlier posts on this thread you mention the constellations of Scorpio Taurus Leo and Aquarius.
These constellations are called fixed constellations and also the constellations of "Zep Tepi" meaning "The First Time" Re: Ancient Egyptian Creation Mythology ... and also refer to a starting point in the precessional cycle of the Sun
The time when the god's and goddesses came to Earth ... I feel when mentioning the term god or goddess we should think of them in their original meaning which is Natural Laws.

Now here is part of a theory I hold ... When the Earth was ready for Humanity to be born ... It was evolved souls from other star systems who were the first parents and guides ... to set Humanity off in a natural way ... These beings represented "Natural Law" or quality's which are also within everyone ... Of course I can offer no proof of this as it purely intuition ...

I think that Sirius being a very close neighbour would be an obvious contender ...

In my understanding or superstition ... Our Sun (Horus) is the child of Sirius (Isis) by "Divine Birth" ... The Father Osiris being dead ... IE a star that had super nouved and become invisible IE a white dwarf star ... Osiris was murdered by Set (Taurus/Aldebaran) meaning celestial movement and the natural process of star birth and also death.

I hope I am straying off point but feel it does link up to a bigger picture

The Orion Nebula / Sword was once much larger (in my belief) ...and the birth place of Sirius and our Sun as well as many of the closer stars ... again unprovable

Your reference to the "Source" being as a "Seed" re Dogon ... sparked off in me ... The dogon belief/or not that all seed on Earth comes from Sirius B ... Sirius B (white dwarf) exerts a very strong pull on Sirius A ... It (B) has an elongated orbit of 50 or so years around A ... in it's closest pass of Sirius A, Sirius B strips material from A and later when at it's most elongated / furthest away ... Sirius B releases this material towards our Sun in the form of seed ... Though this seed is so minuscule in size as to be undetectable ... though it is said to double in size (grow) every day till apparent on Earth ...

When thinking about source ... obviously non of the stars in the Universe are the original source ... they are the offspring of whatever the original Creative force is ... The Ancient Egyptians called this original source Atum ...

Anyway I best end up my post here as I could go on forever regarding such things that your thread has sparked in me.
Again can offer no proof of what I write ...




posted on Dec, 18 2014 @ 10:42 AM
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a reply to: artistpoet

You're welcome and i'm always grateful to discuss things with one who gives thought, and of course in coming to any sort of understanding we should closely examine what it is that convinces ourselves before determining whether or not it is also worthwhile to try and convince others.

The first time as you mention it, Zep Tepi, was generally considered by the Theosophists that considered the notion as relating to precessional ages of the zodiac, in particular Gerald Massey formulated this should be seen as around 13,000 years ago when constellations such as Orion and Canis Major were at their lowest points in the Southern sky, and i think there's some merit in that, a time which corresponded to the end of the last ice age and new beginings, my last thread was on just that with regards to Gobekli Tepe alignments

I'm quite sure we were concerned with spiritual phenomena and reality before that time, that it wasn't the case Gods and Goddesses' arrived then upon the Earth, but more likely messengers that facilitated the contextualization of our place in the greater scheme of things, and prepared the ground for that to be fully realized, in terms of natural law we never really needed to be put in touch with ourselves.

Now if you're going to teach anybody anything it helps to have some basic structure you can hang your whole teaching upon and in the case of the Mesopotamians that was the tree of life and the ancient Egyptians not so much different with their Djed column, in both scenarios the constellation Orion as the second highest constellation on the celestial axis acts as facilitator to reach the very highest point, the essential role being as intermediary between humanity and Celestial spiritual power, as this also involves being reborn then it is of course a mystery cult.

Isis-Raising the dead

My point will always be then that as there is the symbolic premise of the tree one should look to locate varying aspects within that greater context, and if there is talk of a seed understand were that would be first located, though of course all branches later have the potential to produce seeds, in terms of Galactic gardening.


edit on Kam1231351vAmerica/ChicagoThursday1831 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 18 2014 @ 12:59 PM
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a reply to: Kantzveldt

Re: Zep Tepi ... When considering when this occurred my mind conjures a first time way before 13,000 years ago ... My thoughts turn to an original first time ... what I am trying to say is - Many processional cycles have occurred since Humanity was born to Earth ...

If the processional cycle's starting point is measured by Orion / Sirius being at the lowest point of our celestial horizon ... I can see how that would work as a model ... As our location in the Milky Way is the Orion Arm .... it is our back yard so to speak ... where it goes we follow on our course around around the Galactic Centre / Black Hole located somewhere between Sagittarius and Scorpio ... Sagitta A ...

I read somewhere that this was considered as the Southern Star gateway ... it's opposite the Northern Star Gateway being where the Milky Way crosses between Taurus and Gemini ... Orion of course lays between Taurus and Gemini.

It is interesting to consider the idea of constellations and what is the Sun's true constellation.
If we could zoom back far enough from our Sun we would see that the closest bright stars to the naked eye are our constellation.

Zoom back far enough and Sirius and the Sun would appear to merge ... Fomalhaut being a mere 25 or so light years away then we have other stars such as The belt stars of Orion, Rigel, Aldebaran, Procyon, Betelgeuse, Castor, Pollux and many other bright and relatively close stars that would be among the stars making up our true constellation with the Pleiades thrown in as a beautiful feature ... Our closet Stellar Nursery being the Orion Sword Nebula at 1.500 light years distance.

I do agree that Humanity's true condition is spiritual / of the soul ... and yes Humanity does not require an outside influence ... We each have within us the means to communicate with our Higher self/s ... we are our own guides in that respect ... But for such a long time now because of Indoctrination most alas are followers of Indoctrinated ideas to some degree or other ... So the idea of evolved souls both Alien and Human incarnating as Messengers would make sense ... Whether they were here from the beginning is obviously debatable.

I do apologise if I am straying of point ... but find the idea of cosmic origins fascinating and have enjoyed your thread immensly







edit on 18-12-2014 by artistpoet because: Typo



posted on Dec, 19 2014 @ 01:52 AM
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Well would you mind if i just chime in?
you said we must be idiots to believe all them fishys come from the Sirius system.
As i pointed out here.
www.disclose.tv...


a good few days before you, i will admit you didnt do too bad when you embellished it.
You have not looked into it fully though,post your statues and pics of this and that but
the pressure is off.Those guys told us about a 3rd star that so far we humans have not
seen.This will be good proof when Sirius c is discovered.



posted on Dec, 19 2014 @ 02:02 AM
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Oh and before you even THINK about getting smartarse on me,I will far king eatyoz alive.



posted on Dec, 19 2014 @ 04:14 AM
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a reply to: infinitedreamer

Wow... your words for Kantz on that other site are oh-so-polite. You know what? She doesnt plagiarise, she actually studies Mesopotamian societies actively, rather than just ripping off quotes from paranormal websites.

She didnt copy your photos or words, or info for that matter. She used sources that were available beforehand and added a ton of her own knowledge/speculation on the subject.

On Mesopotamia, she will eat you alive.



posted on Dec, 19 2014 @ 05:34 AM
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a reply to: infinitedreamer

So as your posting goes, you were on the internet the other day and you came across all this dogon weird siriously fishy malarky and decided to do a rehash of the tail fully referenced by wikipedia and having come across my thread you presume i have somehow plagiarized you...

For that to even be remotely possible you would have to had provided at least the slightest amount of fresh insight or research but you have only run with the general blurb, there are many such articles online simply rehashing the interpretation of Griaule and Robert Temple and you're just another fanboy, a noobish irrelevance.

So your presumption that i would even read such a pathetic site as disclosetv or give a post such as yours even a second glance is totally unfounded, it will probably have escaped your attention that i've been saying that what Griaule suggested regarding Sirius was wrong and that he was foisting then current Western interest in Sirius B onto Dogon beliefs, that it was cultural contamination, i'm not the first to suggest that by any means, but as far as i'm aware i'm the first to suggest their tradition more properly relates to Fomalhaut.


a reply to: Ridhya

That's what we have Dagon for, eating people alive...at the risk of plagiarizing Lovecraft.

a reply to: artistpoet

Like i've mentioned it has puzzled me why Elamite and Indus valley cultures often show a fish in conjunction with the Bull of Heaven, and the watery stream, there are no aquatic elements in that quadrant of the skies.



One thing i do know with reagrds to Sumerian stargates is that if you generate the grand Celestial overview of the intersection points of the ecliptic and galactic planes at the Gemini and Scorpio intersection points, then the overall schematic resembles that of a fish.



It would be interesting if such a grand vision was the basis for that symbolism, but it would have taken fiendishly clever fish people to suggest it as it cannot be naturally observed only conjectured.
edit on Kam1231352vAmerica/ChicagoFriday1931 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 19 2014 @ 11:08 AM
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originally posted by: infinitedreamer
Oh and before you even THINK about getting smartarse on me,I will far king eatyoz alive.


You are obviously a scholar and I think it would be a mistake not to acknowledge that.

I have long taken an interest in the customs of some African tribes wherein they send their young people away from the tribe to inhabit the bush until they are considered grown-up enough to be admitted back into the tribe to take their place on the Council with the elders.

Here in the West we send our young to learning establishments but they are allowed out during certain festive occasions during which time they are free to spend their time trying to find a place amongst their elders and betters.

Clearly, some young people struggle to understand the standards accepted of them, and their efforts to establish themselves can come across as rather gauche to the more discerning.

Tell me, do you have any knowledge or experience of that to which I am referring?



posted on Dec, 19 2014 @ 02:19 PM
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a reply to: berenike

obviously.



posted on Dec, 19 2014 @ 02:30 PM
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a reply to: Kantzveldt

I bow to your superior guesswork maam,'IF' and its a stretch,said fish-gods did or do exist
then i am sure they WOULD come from pisces.(cough)



posted on Dec, 19 2014 @ 04:12 PM
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a reply to: infinitedreamer

With respect and not wishing to detract from your post ... I feel the need to correct this section of your post



Those guys told us about a 3rd star that so far we humans have not
seen.This will be good proof when Sirius c is discovered.


Sirius C is not a star ... It is a planet ... described by the Nommo as Sorgum Female ... onto which souls are born
I know that it may be called a star ... after all Venus is called the "Morning Star" ... And perhaps you understand this But I would like to make a further point ...

Physical Beings (In their own form) do not come from stars as far as I understand ... Stars being the powerhouse for the soul of it's beings ... for example ... If Humans travelled to another star systems planet would they be said to come from the star we know as Sun or from the planet Earth ...

Perhaps I am wrong and evolved souls from other star systems come via their star or perhaps even both could be true.
If this was so ... A Being from say Sirius C (Planet) would come in their own physical form ... But if they came direct from their star Sirius A ... they would incarnate in Human form

I believe stars such as the Sun as inter dimensional gateways and planets are what I term as Transit Realms ... though I am going off point here ... But Yes ... Sirius C is a Planet ... It was once detected but since as far as I know but since that time has not ...
edit on 19-12-2014 by artistpoet because: Typo



posted on Dec, 19 2014 @ 04:27 PM
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a reply to: artistpoet

You are most likely right,i was under the impression that the binary star system we see as Sirius could possibly
have a faint brown dwarf that the Dogon believe make up a triple system.I guess this third star could be some sort
of gas giant,or at least so weak a star it's hardly emitting any light at all.
For me wether i give any credence to this theory will depend upon that,obviously you would have to believe that planets could survive in a triple star system in the first place and somehow be stable enough to evolve life or at least
be able to support it(wether it originated there or not.)

thankyou for the reply.


edit on 2812f28122831America/Chicago19Fri, 19 Dec 2014 16:28:55 -0600 by infinitedreamer because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 19 2014 @ 04:29 PM
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a reply to: Kantzveldt

Yes it is interesting that the fish is the symbol of the age Pisces ... The Bull the symbol of Taurus ... We are presently in the age of Pisces going into Aquarius ...

An age I believe lasts for approx 2,160 years ... so if the cultures you speak of are older than that they would have used the symbol of the Ram (Aries)

www.signsofthetimeshistory.com...

Got me scratching my head now ... Why the Fish ?

One more point I would like to make is ... Have you considered that Sirius C could well be a water world

edit on 19-12-2014 by artistpoet because: Typo



posted on Dec, 19 2014 @ 04:38 PM
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a reply to: artistpoet

Further thought is ... I recall one of the carvings you posted shows Aquarius standing upon Pisces

Could it be that it is heralding the Dawn of Aquarius as a special time in the future or even recalling that age occurring in a previous processional cycle ... as Aquarius is one of the fixed signs along with Leo Taurus and Scorpio which I have seen used as the 4 cardinal points or totems of great significance in other cultures

Still scratching my head



posted on Dec, 19 2014 @ 04:47 PM
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originally posted by: infinitedreamer
a reply to: artistpoet

You are most likely right,i was under the impression that the binary star system we see as Sirius could possibly
have a faint brown dwarf that the Dogon believe make up a triple system.I guess this third star could be some sort
of gas giant,or at least so weak a star it's hardly emitting any light at all.
For me wether i give any credence to this theory will depend upon that,obviously you would have to believe that planets could survive in a triple star system in the first place and somehow be stable enough to evolve life or at least
be able to support it(wether it originated there or not.)

thankyou for the reply.



When you think about it there could well be all sorts of planets or even as you say a Brown Dwarf in Sirius.
After all we are still discovering new celestial body's in our own Solar System ... so who truly knows ... not I for one


edit on 19-12-2014 by artistpoet because: Typo



posted on Dec, 19 2014 @ 05:25 PM
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a reply to: infinitedreamer

That's good, and by the way Fomalhaut is a Triple star system


a reply to: artistpoet

I don't consider Sirius at all because my three threads prior to this were concerned with identifying the most fundamental aspects of mythology and symbolism involving Sirius, and fish people simply aren't on that menu, the only evidence from the earliest writings, ie Sumerian, simply indicates that the Apkallu teachers of humanity emerged from the waters of the Abzu, and returned there, and those waters in Celestial terms are as poured out by Enki/Aquarius, and the Apkallu fish is Piscis Austrinis, so for myself it is a case of look no further as i only wished to identify what they themselves believed.


edit on Kpm1231352vAmerica/ChicagoFriday1931 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 19 2014 @ 06:05 PM
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a reply to: Kantzveldt

Yes I follow your thinking Re: Origins

Just working out what age the Sumerian civilisation was in ... I work that out to be in the age of Taurus ... not sure if you have mentioned this ... if so I apologise ...

By the way ... I tend to "Bang on" about Sirius as it has a personal significance for me ...



posted on Dec, 22 2014 @ 10:00 AM
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Very good write up. I have much lower standards for the Alien and UFO forum. I was thinking it might even be a better fit for ancient civilizations, although there is a lot of cross over in information sometimes. Either way, good post.

S+F



posted on Dec, 22 2014 @ 05:02 PM
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originally posted by: Kantzveldt

Fomalhaut





What is the basis for your pairing the Fish of Vettersfeld with Fomalhaut? It's Scythian/Ionian and not associated with any Mesopotamian culture.

Additionally, I can find no association of Fomalhaut (Hastorang to the Persians) with a fish symbol. The star was long part of a grouping of four stars which came to be known as the "Royal stars," four stars positioned in the sky in four quadrants, with each Royal star being the "guardian" of its quadrant. This mythos was operating in Persia at around the same time that the Fish of Vettersfeld was being created.

I can find no fish association there, nor the claim that any "visitors" came from there. You pointed out the etymology of Fomalhaut. It was for a time associated with Pisces. However, the name "mouth of the southern fish" is an Arabic translation of a Ptolemaic name for the star.

Can you show where the Sumerians or Babylonians associated Hastorang with fish and/or water?

Harte



posted on Dec, 22 2014 @ 07:06 PM
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The extraterrestrials are fallen Angels from the planet X (Zeus) We call it Jupiter the 6th planet. When referred to by name one refers to them as the Grigori. They are a Giant militant race of Angels. They taught men things that were not for the human mind to know, mostly war and magic but they had a huge problem with earth women. They coveted them causing them to fall from their abode, unable to return. This is why YHWH says they were going to eat dust and now calls them serpents. In the flesh they only have a little more power than humans. Except that the demons are subject to them like Solomon. In the spirit they do fly but make no mistake they can't leave though they would like you to believe they can.

There no longer is a place for them in Heaven. Their Prince is XES (666 in revelation). Notice spelled backwards is their sin. XES is Zeus. They worship him as Jesus. The TRUE EssiYAH is YAHshuWAH not jeZeus. The reason they have hijacked YAHshuWAH's religion is for 2 reasons. They are YHWH's apostates and they are not allowed to entreat YHWH in any way so they counterfeit it though it is a terrible forgery because they can't even keep the Sabbath (they were out of their Heavenly order from the 2nd day of Creation). And from the very beginning they plotted to knock Adam from his throne so they must lead YAHshuWAH's sheep astray. Zeus has no power to get anyone into Heaven. He can't even get himself in and when the O+'s find out they are going to br pissed. This is there origin and the pit is where they will end.

Most all people are deceived about religion. This is Zeus' world right now. If you think you are going to find the TRUTH in one of these churches or synagogues of Commerce you should be asking yourself not if you are deceived but are you deceived because you have no choice or because you do and are just ignorant. Maybe you have been played.


a reply to: Kantzveldt



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