The Place of Origin

a reply to: Specimen

The Sumerian Fish people are actually a class of Priest that dressed as fish because they claimed descent from the original Apkallu that emerged from the Abzu, by tradition the fist teachers were wholly Apkallu then became progressively more human until they were considered wholly human scholars, but they maintained the secret teachings as i explained here, so they were a group that claimed extra-terrestrial ancestors, the last evidence for them is Apkallu seals from Hellenistic Uruk.


a reply to: berenike

An interesting point about Osiris and Set, if i recall his penis was also swallowed by a Fish after his dismemberment which i guess suggests that the original procreative seed returned soley to the Fish constellation, though fortunately Isis had kept some in the fridge...possibly.

a reply to: greyer

Well maybe one problem is that these are the traditions that gave rise to the biblical Fallen Angels and Watchers and by that account they're the source of all evil, if the earlier traditions are presented in a proper context then there's no suggestion of them being evil at all or lusting after women or the Gods being angry at them, the Enochian literature was to written to challenge and undermine the Mesopotamian traditions, and that tradition still exists in terms of the modern UFO disinformation material of which Sitchin contributed more than his fair share.

I did a little digging to see if the Dogon could have had any sort of connection with Ancient Egypt and at first it looked unpromising because they were far from there, in West Africa.

However, Mali was rich in gold and there were trade routes:

In the ancient empire of Mali, the most important industry for trading was the gold industry. Much gold was traded through the Sahara desert, to the countries on the North African coast. The traders would travel by caravans, on camels. The Sahara desert is a very barren, dry place, which is very unfriendly to go through, but that was the most important trade for the empire's economy. It was control of the trans-saharan trade routes that helped to keep the empire in power. In North Africa, they would give safe passage to the camel caravans, and had a whole expansions of markets just for West African goods. Thanks to the Mamluks in Egypt and the Merinid empire in North Africa, they were even able to get their gold sent all the way to the Mediterranean, further expanding their trade grounds even farther.

Source:

malitradevseuropeantrade.weebly.com...

It's not too much of a stretch to imagine that the stories and beliefs of Egypt could have made their way back to Mali ?

First the myths of our ancestors are not all myth many of them are true stories written by old men who had no time for follies n fantasies.
Second the story of our origins is a long one probably stretching billions of years ..into universal cycles.A LOT has been done to wipe out evidence of our CHIMERIC PAST(animal-animal hybrids,human-animal Hybrids e.t.c).The ancient gods -SUN gods the likes of INTI,RA,AHURA MAZDA

came not from physical realms but from non-corporeal(m)s -WATERY realms likened to the ABZU-probably higher dimensions of existence.
Now these sun gods created beings -that wud be us + plus the demigods(APKALLU).
The reference in Egyptian folklore to primordial mounds(where creation as we know it started) is a reference to the focal point from which the gods entered our realms.

originally posted by: Kantzveldt
a reply to: Specimen

The Sumerian Fish people are actually a class of Priest that dressed as fish because they claimed descent from the original Apkallu that emerged from the Abzu, by tradition the fist teachers were wholly Apkallu then became progressively more human until they were considered wholly human scholars, but they maintained the secret teachings as i explained here, so they were a group that claimed extra-terrestrial ancestors, the last evidence for them is Apkallu seals from Hellenistic Uruk.


.

Funny to think that Jack Parsons and Wernher Von Braun (via Parson's Thelemite occultism and Von Brauns SS and Vrill Society links) were both directly influenced by the teachings of these "Fish People".


The whole Egyptian mystery school/Hermeticism/Occult thing traces it's routes to the Fish People and their hidden knowledge: The list of people who have somehow impacted society whilst being a member of a society that explores these so called esoteric teachings is suggestive in itself.


Amongst them are a ridiculously high number of intelligence/spooky types as well ... The king of "spooks" 007 (symbol!) , James Bond was described by Fleming as "Manichean" ( who probably knew via his own "occult knowledge" that Mani believed in the teachings from fish people too).

a reply to: berenike

No not to much of a stretch, but then again there's no reason why West Africa couldn't have had it's own tradition of contact that owes nothing to Egypt, there seems to have been an independent NE Asian tradition as well as SE European as well as native American.


a reply to: Jukiodone

Yes it is the case that the last one hears of a group openly claiming descent from and maintaining the tradition of the Apkallu is some 2,000 years ago in Hellenistic Uruk, but that city died around 300 AD and after that there isn't anyone openly representing the tradition, maybe it was the case that nobody found the tradition credible any longer, there's a statement i like form the 3rd Dynasty of Sumer that shows that even thousands of years previous the King had struggled to believe in their own traditions;

I am no fool as regards the knowledge acquired since the time that mankind was, from heaven above, set on its path: when I have discovered tigi and zamzam hymns from past days, old ones from ancient times, I have never declared them to be false, and have never contradicted their contents. I have conserved these antiquities, never abandoning them to oblivion. Wherever the tigi and the zamzam sounded, I have recovered all that knowledge, and I have had those cir-gida songs brilliantly performed in my own good house. So that they should never fall into disuse, I have added them to the singers' repertoire, and thereby I have set the heart of the Land on fire and aflame.

Well, Enoch the author of the Book of Enoch explains how we were taught by fallen angels all that we shouldn't have known. This led to bad things.

Funny how many similar stories comes from different sources.

There must be some truth to this story.

a reply to: robbystarbuck

It's crazy theories like that which can lead us closer to the truth. Keep it up.

a reply to: Kantzveldt

Could also be just a symbolic coincidence with no deeper meaning than: Fish was an important resource. Couldn't catch enough themselves and these are the beautiful snapshots of the first fish deal.

Not saying there are no aliens living in the Fomalhaut galaxy, but there are more possible explanations to the fish people. Religious ceremonies, for example. Cirque de Aqua review, from the latest show in the town center. Or the invention of trade with people from the sea. You know islands and such.
The Sumerian stories sound so oddly familiar because they were basis of numerous fiction. Lovecraft, just to name the most prominent. Also we read "help fom another world", but that's just because our view is not in tune with theirs. I assume we'd disagree alot about how the world works, why the sun rises, if it's okay to bake bread without washing the hands before...

In ancient times they understood the universe as

Upper Realm = Gods

Middle Realm = Humans

Lower Realm = Demons

To look for a star in our physical realm (universe) as the origin of these beings would be to ignore the fact that the ancients believed these beings were from other realms. For example studying Sumerian text you will find that the anunnaki gods are not physical flesh and blood creatures like us but more ethereal in nature.

The stream pouring from Aquarius(water carrier) into the mouth of Piscus Austrinus(southern fish) Fomalhaut represented the time of the annual flood for the Babylonians. Fomalhaut is also the brightest star in this area of the sky.

It was also one of the four royal stars of Ancient Persia marking the seasons: Fomalhaut (winter), Aldebaran (spring), Regulus (summer), Antares (autumn).

Not sure how human-fish hybrids from outer space fit into the story though...

a reply to: Kantzveldt

Hmmmm...More descendant claims to divinity, demonic, or even semi mortal heroes. No different then Spartans saying they were the bloodlines of Hercules since it was believed to have decended from Zeus, or how the Hebrews would claim to be the sons of Abraham or David fro that matter. Maybe the descendants of their teachings or ways(philosophy) possibly.

Didn't know these Apkallu could of have had other features from other animals like the Egyptian Gods. Im still a little to un-familiar with Akkadian or Sumerian, have other fish I'm in interested in frying.

Thanks tho.

a reply to: Peeple

They had the Goddess Nanse when it came to catching fish, which just jumped into her nets because they loved her, the Apkallu descendants were Priests and scholars that are generally seen in conjunction with the purification of the celestial axis tree, so yes they were involved with religious ceremony but more generally with the establishment and maintaining of the cosmic order, the point being they had established Sumerian civilization, not bad for fish...

a reply to: rowanflame

But these are not Annunaki Gods, they came and were understood as advisors to Ante-Diluvian Kings and they produced descendants, they taught of the spiritual Gods and also were seen as under the spiritual authority of Enki.

a reply to: moebius

Because the Aquarius constellation was represented by Enki and constituted the waters of the Abzu with little fishes often seen within the streams of water, the fish then was under his authority, and that is also the Sumerian understanding of the emergence from and return into of the Apkallu from the waters, thus their Celestial place of origin as Piscus Austrinus.



a reply to: Specimen

Again they weren't claiming Divinity, only descent from pre-Diluvian sages that emerged from the Abzu and continuing their tradition of instructing humanity, their role was to serve not rule.

Can anyone tell me why "Pisces" in Sumerian roughly translates to "weapon"?

a reply to: Kantzveldt

Really? Nobody else has put this together? They way you laid it out and from my own past readings... it simply fits.

As to who or what those ancient visitors (demi gods) were... ? But I'll offer a 'congrats' on associating the star of origin. You have my vote of support.

Well done. As usual.

EDIT: and as for the Dogon, I don't remember how Sirius was decided upon... I was under the impression the tribe's elders simply pointed to Sirius... and we saw the alleged layout fit with that solar system... so Hmmmmmmmm.

And one more thing... I'd bet IF we came from another system ... or if a portion of our dna did (and I think likely so), then the origin planet would be smaller than Earth... the way our feet and spines are constructed points that way... as in "Ouch, Earth's gravity hurts!"

a reply to: Baddogma

No nobody has connected the fishy legends to the fish constellation surprising as that might seem. From what i've read from debunkers of the Dogon and 'Sirius' tradition is the suggestion that what they were describing to the French anthropologist that were studying their culture came from the French themselves as a seeming explanation, that there was then current discussion of the star having a binary twin and it seemed fortuitous the Dogon might be describing the very same, but they themselves made no such claim.

It's worth noting by the way that if the Sumerian tradition is correct then the descendants of this contact would pretty much have written up the mythology and determined the astrological associations themselves, and in having done so they always associate that fish as travelling through streams of water, which of course is a natural enough association, but in doing so they may have indicated how they actually arrived at this planet.

As an example this image puzzled me for a while because it places the fish in association with the bull of Heaven Taurus, there are plenty of other examples from Indus valley culture, and one also sees a stream linking the fish to above the bull, the location of the Pleiades;



In another example we see the Bull of Heaven in association with the two mountains of the horizon, it's setting and rising points West and East, but again the connectivity of the streams of water, it's that sort of symbolic language with regards to Heavenly inter-connectivity i have found interesting

the first pic in this thread looked like footballs..lol

originally posted by: Eunuchorn
Ahh, long term conditioning at its finest.

Yes. That is why no one has replicated the work of the Americans. It requires alien assistance that no one else has had.

Wait, no, many nations were on the brink or developed it soon after, and there is absolutely no need for alien involvement.

I believe your post should be turned inward.

There is really not much possibility of life on Fomalhaut B though, if it even truly exists.

a reply to: Kantzveldt

Just saying could be costumes, or more symbolic than real fish-people.
As for the ancient alien stories: they're mostly just travelling reports, if you ask me. People back then all have similiar stories, because it made sense to them, but let's face it: it is very contraproductive.
If we ever make alien contact, I swear I'd die from embarassement, when I see people bending their knees and praising them. I don't want to be slave of some self proclaimed superiour being. Sure, we can talk, drink, have a relationship, for trades and information, become friends, but I'll never call a mortal being god. Well that's a lie, but only circumstancial.

a reply to: Peeple

With the Sumerians it's certainly costumes and not actual fish people, that's only how they symbolized the tradition, the best evidence for any actual contact is from a couple of thousand or so years previous and of Vinca culture, and even there the figures are masked and suited and booted, they even produced replicas in terracota of the masks worn, which had no practical function as they have no eye holes;



Between this culture and the Sumerian the only evidence for any cultic practise across a large region is the production of clay figurines derivative of these early creations which were thus of huge significance, this was the origins of 'the fish people', and the most advanced culture on the planet in its day, the one that developed signs and thus writing.



So this is the best evidence for how they actually appeared.