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We are not equal

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posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 01:25 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Awesome topic LesM,

Thinking about it, bump




posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 02:19 PM
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a reply to: dominicus


There is a direct awareness, that life exists prior to thoughts, and that the thought of the rock is not the same as an actual physical rock.


I was under the impression that when we think of rocks, we do not believe we have actual rocks in our head. Nonetheless, thinking, thinking about rocks, is a real activity and not an illusion. This occurs during life, not before or after.



posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 02:20 PM
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a reply to: Unity_99


Only a few elitists and dog eat dog beast like primitives IMO, social darwinism is the big slide down the snake to the beast kingdom in the big game of snakes and ladders we're all playing IMO, ever say things like, people are saying we're not equal as individuals due to differences, but....

No one thinks individual differences distract in any way shape or form from equality. Thats the whole point. We don't use terms like, we're not all equal in abilities. We don't have to be. It would sure be a terrible play if everyone was the main character. Or in a band, if everyone was the lead singer, or in a town, if everyone was the mayor. Whole town would grind to a halt.

Everyone is equal. And those who are traumatized by an unlawful slave system where a group of thugs felt so entitled to take all the land and resources from the people and set up musical chairs for homes and jobs, are equal too.


It is painfully obvious we use terms such as “everyone is equal”, as you yourself just did, serving only to obfuscate the notion of social fairness while at the same time dismissing the brute facts about our individuality. I don’t know how or see why it is easier to just say “everyone is equal” than to put in that extra effort for the sake of clarity to say everyone is to be treated fairly in such and such respect. “Everyone is equal” is false, and as such, an erroneous conclusion, proposition and assertion. So why keep saying it?



posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 02:21 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Rocks could manifest.



posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 02:23 PM
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a reply to: daskakik


That may be what the OP is referring to but the idea is taken out of context because nobody says that everyone should be the same but rather that everyone have the same opportunities.

In might fail in the application but that doesn't change the idea and it doesn't give the OP the right to twist the phrase and apply his own definition just to rant on.


Saying everyone is equal or even implying everyone is equal, no matter how we think this applies to reality, no matter what arbitrary category we are referring to, ie. Americans, Jews, Christians, all of humanity etc. or in whomever’s “eyes”, i.e. law, constitution, society, etc. as if these institutions were capable of determining value, is a fundamentally false notion, no matter what context it is proposed in.

I have every right to challenge that definition, and more importantly, yours and everyone else’s specious reasoning behind defending it. Equality of rights—and wrongs apparently. Equal in opportunity, as long as one can afford opportunity, as long as one is an opportunist, as long as one is fine supporting the income inequality that results. Equal in the eyes of the law, or in more honest words equal in the eyes of those who write and enforce laws, aristocratic and bourgeois definitions of equality. Equal in idea only but not in reality.

We are not equal is my argument. No one has the same opportunities; no one has the same rights; no one is treated with equal fairness, respect, consideration, regardless of what set of laws we use, no matter what moral authorities think they carry absolute morality, and regardless of what categories people see themselves as. Why is this? Because we are not equal.

Would it not be better to admit a truth, and go from there? Or is it better to hide behind a false notion?



posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 02:25 PM
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a reply to: Stormdancer777




Rocks could manifest.


I'm sorry storm, I do not understand.



posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 02:39 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
Would it not be better to admit a truth, and go from there? Or is it better to hide behind a false notion?

Just for arguments sake?

Rant on.



posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 02:45 PM
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a reply to: daskakik

Specious reasoning.

Conform on.



posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 02:56 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope
I'm quite the nonconformist, I just don't see the need to get too deep into something that is understood to be a figure of speech.

I honestly don't see the point of this thread.



posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 03:44 PM
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a reply to: daskakik


I'm quite the nonconformist, I just don't see the need to get too deep into something that is understood to be a figure of speech.


Sounds like something a conformist might say. But I'll take your word for it.

Figure's of speech are rhetorical devices used to great effect in political and ideological rhetoric. It frightens me when people refuse to think about these things. To each his own I suppose.



I honestly don't see the point of this thread.


I honestly don't see the point of you replying to it.



posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 03:50 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope
So you put together over 900 words to say "politicians lie".

Doesn't everybody already know this?

ETA: I just spotted this ironic little bit

It frightens me when people refuse to think about these things.

Are you really frightened?
edit on 15-12-2014 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 03:55 PM
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Not everyone is equal, no. But we all need to be treated equal. Criminals of all sorts go to jail. Black, white, green, or cops , judges, politicians. And all should have same kind of trial rights and expenses for their defense. A man in a wheelchair is not equal to me in abilities. But has equal access to jobs. Ramps built to enter buildings, parking spaces. To give equal access. That is just the time s we live in. It is men and women that are not at all equal in the laws eyes. Women have more rights. More protection under the laws. As far as domestic violence goes anyways. There are more but i won't go there.



posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 03:57 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: dominicus


There is a direct awareness, that life exists prior to thoughts, and that the thought of the rock is not the same as an actual physical rock.


I was under the impression that when we think of rocks, we do not believe we have actual rocks in our head. Nonetheless, thinking, thinking about rocks, is a real activity and not an illusion. This occurs during life, not before or after.

the conscious act of thinking, even if real, is so ridiculously limited.....
have yourself a look at this thread here:
A Modern Day Buddhist Hermit, Explains Enlightenment and the Subconscious



posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 07:03 PM
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a reply to: daskakik

[qutoe]So you put together over 900 words to say "politicians lie".

Doesn't everybody already know this?
No, I didn't. In philosophy, we pick a subject and we reason about it. So no, I wrote over 900 words to say "We are not equal", in case you missed the title.


ETA: I just spotted this ironic little bit

It frightens me when people refuse to think about these things.

Are you really frightened?

It legitimately and literally frightens me to witness people refuse to think, yes.



posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 07:09 PM
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a reply to: dominicus


the conscious act of thinking, even if real, is so ridiculously limited.....


Thinking isn't anything more or less than what it is. Like every activity, you either use it or lose it. But if you want an example of being ridiculously limited, try mysticism, which throughout its thousands of years, has given human-kind no results. Thinking, however, has brought great fruits.



posted on Dec, 15 2014 @ 07:21 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
No, I didn't. In philosophy, we pick a subject and we reason about it. So no, I wrote over 900 words to say "We are not equal", in case you missed the title.

It being used in "political and ideological rhetoric" seems to be your hang up but it is already known. You said it in other words but "politicians lie" would have been enough without busting out the strawman about it being impossible for people to be equal.

Nice dodge but I say we judge a thread by the content and not just the title.


It legitimately and literally frightens me to witness people refuse to think, yes.

Who isn't thinking, because I gave your topic enough thought to answer and point it out for the strawman that it is? So no, you have no reason to be frightened, but I do understand that it is a figure of speech.

Got to save face, no?



edit on 15-12-2014 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 16 2014 @ 04:57 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

we are not equal but does the stork tell the caterpillar we are not equal no it doesnt because were are so similar you must say that we are not equal



posted on Dec, 16 2014 @ 06:44 PM
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a reply to: daskakik


It being used in "political and ideological rhetoric" seems to be your hang up but it is already known. You said it in other words but "politicians lie" would have been enough without busting out the strawman about it being impossible for people to be equal.

Nice dodge but I say we judge a thread by the content and not just the title.

Who isn't thinking, because I gave your topic enough thought to answer and point it out for the strawman that it is? So no, you have no reason to be frightened, but I do understand that it is a figure of speech.

Got to save face, no?


It’s easy to say something is a straw man, but can you tell me why?

I ask because it is actually yourself who is misrepresenting my argument, and arguing against your own misrepresentation of my arguments, instead of my actual arguments. Straw men. I wonder if you know what a straw man even is?

So please, judge the content of the OP if you so choose. You have yet to mention any of it.

Even funnier, you mentioned you don’t know why one would go too deep into figures of speech, probably attempting a little jab. I replied to this statement, saying politicians use them to great emotional and political effect. The politician remark has nothing to do with my thread, but rather, to your appeal to ridicule.

Even now you are avoiding the issue, having touched zero of my arguments, and attacking nothing but your little straw men. So much for saving face, eh?


edit on 16-12-2014 by LesMisanthrope because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 16 2014 @ 07:00 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope
"Linguistic fictions", of which "equality" is one, are offered by who?
edit on 16-12-2014 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 16 2014 @ 09:56 PM
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a reply to: daskakik

Not equality, but opportunity, rights, etc. are the linguistic fictions I was speaking about. Anyone who speaks of equal opportunity, equal in the eyes of the law, equal rights, are speaking of ideas and not fact.

By the way, you were correct about my straw man upon thinking about it longer. I apologize for insinuating you didn't know what a straw man was, when you actually do. I was incorrect. You are right to say no one actually thinks we are equal...I mean how could they?



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