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My faith tested

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posted on Dec, 10 2014 @ 11:55 PM
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I've undergone a transformation...

It's hard to reconcile religious belief through science considering the billions of habitable planets in our galaxy alone, in addition to the trillions of galaxies in the continuously expanding universe and the intersection of an innumerable amount of parallel universes. Spiritual phenomena do exist but the criteria for such is higher than repeated acts like the 'laying of hands' that can alternetively be explained. Even the Catholic church will only perform an exorcism in the most volatile of cases. If miracles happen, then no man has ever saw one and I'm convinced of that.
edit on 11-12-2014 by gorsestar because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 11 2014 @ 12:01 AM
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a reply to: gorsestar


I've undergone a transformation...

From what? Do tell.


If miracles happen, then no man has ever saw one and I'm convinced of that.

One mans "alternative explanation" is another mans miracle.



posted on Dec, 11 2014 @ 12:11 AM
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a reply to: Klassified

Thank you for your comments, fair question.

I consider myself a believer in Jesus Christ and am very interested/active in the study of the judeo-christian faith.

I hear you. I don't want to sound condescending, that's why I thought transformation was the best description, as I'm open to more change.

What if most miracles are spiritual interactions? Miracles today but explained by science tomorrow as the paranormal.



posted on Dec, 11 2014 @ 12:18 AM
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a reply to: gorsestar
From the Christian perspective, aren't all miracles spiritual interactions? Scientists have a tendency to skirt the paranormal as a whole. Though some have dared to go there. I'm sure there are some non-christian researchers who would agree with a paranormal take on miracles. Though maybe not all miracles.



posted on Dec, 11 2014 @ 12:38 AM
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a reply to: Klassified

Yes, but more specifically they originate solely from God through anyone he works through. I think otherwise about the scientists, more attempts to explain the paranormal have been made in recent years than I've seen ever (the % still low). In fact for example, I think Christians fail to explain spirituality completely. They're dismissive on some topics like ghosts.



posted on Dec, 11 2014 @ 01:19 AM
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originally posted by: gorsestar
a reply to: Klassified

Yes, but more specifically they originate solely from God through anyone he works through. I think otherwise about the scientists, more attempts to explain the paranormal have been made in recent years than I've seen ever (the % still low). In fact for example, I think Christians fail to explain spirituality completely. They're dismissive on some topics like ghosts.


How do you know they originate solely from God? That's a claim of fact. How about backing it up with hard evidence or rewording it as your personal belief?



posted on Dec, 11 2014 @ 01:50 AM
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It is a fact biblically speaking.



posted on Dec, 11 2014 @ 02:05 AM
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It's hard to reconcile religious belief through science considering the billions of habitable planets in our galaxy alone, in addition to the trillions of galaxies in the continuously expanding universe and the intersection of an innumerable amount of parallel universes.


It doesn't have to be hard when all things are possible.




If miracles happen, then no man has ever saw one and I'm convinced of that.


So, you don't believe the miracles spoken of in the Bible by witnesses?



posted on Dec, 11 2014 @ 02:05 AM
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a reply to: gorsestar

And Moldevort is real, Harry Potter speaking.

I used to feel the way you did, but that was probably because it's what my parents taught. After growing up and looking objectively at the situation, I'm agnostic



posted on Dec, 11 2014 @ 02:29 AM
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originally posted by: gorsestar
I think Christians fail to explain spirituality completely.

Spirituality was never meant to be explained...

It was meant to be experienced.

Knowledge can never take the place of spiritual experience.

Bill Johnson from Bethel Church in Redding, California has a very fitting thought on this:


“For centuries the Church has camped around a sermon...Israel camped around the Presence.” Bill Johnson

originally posted by: Dustytoad
You have to find the answer. Don't you think you would have figured it out by now if anyone could just tell you?
Words are analogous to experiences.. If you have not had similar experiences you cannot know what the symbols mean. Wisdom is only gained through experience, even as the knowledge is in the thread it will literally mean nothing.



posted on Dec, 11 2014 @ 06:34 AM
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Maybe you have to build a bigger view that does not box in your consciousness expanding it as far as you can handle.

From my point of view there is no supernatural. Everything is normal that man (humanity) have not understood yet or experienced. I once did not believe in light/chi/kundalini and Reiki (laying of hands) and thought it was a manipulative trick.

Now I know better and play around with the energized body states and do low level Reiki to calm a few people down so that their body self heals thru the placebo effect.

But then I need to understand things logically like the connection between the probability field in the slit experiment and Jung:s Synchronicity and how it relates to the light/chi/kundalini. But then it is kinda hard not to be curious when you are noticing Synchronicity like the 11:11 phenomena.

Namaste
edit on 11-12-2014 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 11 2014 @ 10:13 AM
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a reply to: gorsestar

You're generalizing that all miracles are spiritual.. .since they are of different issues, types and methods.. .your theory is singularily directed therefore flawes



posted on Dec, 11 2014 @ 11:06 AM
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a reply to: gorsestar

It should be mentioned that the Catholic manual used for demonic exorcism lists most if not all of the signs of 1Cor 12 as major signs of demon possession. Like prophecy, speaking in tongues, especially if the possessed speaks in Latin, demons are supposed to love Latin. Also things like super strength and ability to fly or ability to reveal secrets or know certain things, like knowing the colour of the exorcists' underwear no less. Kind of makes you ponder who are really the bad guys, doesn't it.
edit on 11-12-2014 by Utnapisjtim because: typo and a rephrase



posted on Dec, 11 2014 @ 01:17 PM
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originally posted by: Philippines
a reply to: gorsestar

And Moldevort is real, Harry Potter speaking.

I used to feel the way you did, but that was probably because it's what my parents taught. After growing up and looking objectively at the situation, I'm agnostic


I have the Keebler elves out back shhh.



posted on Dec, 11 2014 @ 01:32 PM
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[Quote] Murgatroid
Spirituality was never meant to be explained...

It was meant to be experienced.

Knowledge can never take the place of spiritual experience.

Bill Johnson from Bethel Church in Redding, California has a very fitting thought on this:


“For centuries the Church has camped around a sermon...Israel camped around the Presence.”
.

Kant describes it as: "the thing itself" or the thing as it appears to an observer.
The horizons of possible experience are divided into the sensible & intelligible realms; the latter contains those things that are of themselves and therefore cannot be known but only felt.
edit on 11-12-2014 by gorsestar because: (no reason given)

edit on 11-12-2014 by gorsestar because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 11 2014 @ 02:17 PM
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a reply to: gorsestar

Kant was a closet atheist... newhumanist.org.uk...

He claimed that God's existence is a "transcendental illusion" and that we can't even know that He exists.

He was completely out of touch with reality obviously.



posted on Dec, 11 2014 @ 03:12 PM
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originally posted by: gorsestar
It is a fact biblically speaking.


Biblically speaking? LMAO. That doesn't make it fact. It makes it a claim unsupported by a shred of testable evidence.



posted on Dec, 11 2014 @ 03:14 PM
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originally posted by: TruthLover557



It's hard to reconcile religious belief through science considering the billions of habitable planets in our galaxy alone, in addition to the trillions of galaxies in the continuously expanding universe and the intersection of an innumerable amount of parallel universes.


It doesn't have to be hard when all things are possible.




If miracles happen, then no man has ever saw one and I'm convinced of that.


So, you don't believe the miracles spoken of in the Bible by witnesses?



What miracles spoken of in the Bible by witnesses? If you're referring to the alleged miracles performed by Jesus, none of them were written about by anyone who lived when Jesus allegedly lived or witnessed him doing anything.



posted on Dec, 11 2014 @ 03:17 PM
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originally posted by: Murgatroid
a reply to: gorsestar

Kant was a closet atheist... newhumanist.org.uk...

He claimed that God's existence is a "transcendental illusion" and that we can't even know that He exists.

He was completely out of touch with reality obviously.


Kant was a pious observer of the moral law. It's your own opinion that he was an atheist. I also believe that if he were alive today he'd view this disagreement as completely trivial.

How does requiring replicable evidence of anyone's GOD make one not sane? Should he had sat around the camp fire like the Jews?



posted on Dec, 11 2014 @ 03:21 PM
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a reply to: Tangerine




Biblically speaking? LMAO. That doesn't make it fact. It makes it a claim unsupported by a shred of testable evidence.


Hmm? I'm not sure what your position is but I outlined mine very early on:





I consider myself a believer in Jesus Christ and am very interested/active in the study of the judeo-christian faith.



How about you outline the criteria for a miracle for me?
edit on 11-12-2014 by gorsestar because: (no reason given)



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