Wild horses to be sold and slaughtered!!!

Originally posted by LadyV

Originally posted by just_a_pilot
( except for a coyote, good for nothing mange carrying disease ridden and sickness infested creatures they are,

Why!? It still has a life force given to it......it is not right to feel nothing for something suffering.

For the same reason they can leave my calfs and chickens maimed and running around hurt while they kill others.

Originally posted by just_a_pilot


For the same reason they can leave my calfs and chickens maimed and running around hurt while they kill others.

Yes they do ...and I can understand wanting them controlled due to that fact....but you as a "human" should understand that is nature...they don't purposefully say..."hmmm, lets go main and kill" you as a human being, should still want o kill something quickly and effectively....and in such a manner as to not make it suffer.....humans are supposed to be able to reason and think more logically, than an animal.....though there are many, many humans that make me doubt that at times

Originally posted by instar
Chakotay

There is no doubt to those who look into the eyes of a horse, they see a nobel spirit, when the mind reasons thus, the heart speaks loudly.
Or when the eyes behold a soaring eagle in all its majesty, the spirit is touched and again the heart speaks.
How so then, is the spirit numbed and the heart muted, when the same eyes behold a nobel deer and foal, or a peaceful cow and calf, the sheep and the lamb?
Behold the power of the stomach, to cloud the mind which understood nobility, to dull the eyes which beheld beauty, to silence the heart that spoke of beauty, and warp the logic of a logical being.
How do you measure the spirit of a horse? a cow? a deer? what makes distinction? Is it the hungry stomach, the illogical mind, the tinted vision of imperfect eyes? or the foolish heart?

???

Well considering Coyotes are a recent phenomina in Missouri not to mention here in Fairfax County Virginia that makes them intruders.


Tell you what I will do. I will take my land out of the Conservation Resource Program and buy the 200 acres next to me. If you horse people can come up with a fair dollar amount to equal at least what I would with the CRP and share cropping and haying and cattle grazing. Here is about what it comes out to.

I get about 100 dollars and acre for plantable crop land which comes to about $37000 a year plus my share of whatever the leasee can sell the crop for so lets figure about another 12000 a year for a total of 49k a year farmable land. I wont include the maintainence fee I also recieve of about 7 dollars an acre.

I get seventy five percent of the 100 from the CRP to let the land go 'back to nature'. so about 26,000 for that per year.

I wont include the amount for hay and straw for the winter, I will give you that. Then agiain we will earn 40 per acre for plantable grasses, but your horses will probably eat it.

Now lets say I buy Crandles 200 acres next to mine to make us a total of 600 acres. I would charge you half of what the crp would have given me of $500 an acre for hardwood and wildlife habitat. So you would pay me 50k for that. Its about 1230 an acre. I will absorb the $196,000 because I want the two hundred acres.

I won't watch over the horses so you will need to hire someone to do it. Or if you prefer one of you can build a house on my property and I will charge only 300 a month rent for a total of 3600 a year.

Plus I want to be able to sell my cattle for a loss since they arent full grown and to big to be feeder. You can make up the difference to be figured from todays beef price and the price of beef when the deal is done.

Draw up a legal contract and let me know. You can put all the horses on 800 acres that you can, probably about 200 would be a good start, then we can come up with yearly fees.

If anyone is really interested I will come up with an exact total which will be over 100k a year just to break even.

[edit on 12/27/2004 by just_a_pilot]

just_a_pilot....I can see that I have to make this simple for you. I never ask anything about your "worth" or cost of anything. I what I did say, was that you are a human being, I am assuming you are and that you should be able to distinguish between nature and some silly "revenge" that you seem to have towards and animal that is just being itself....therefore as a human being, again assuming, you should have it within yourself to not want to see something suffer.....otherwise you have deep rooted problems.....just because they kill and hurt your livestock.... doesn't make it alright for you to make it suffer for some sick sort of "payback"

Lady, I will make it simple for you also. In the real world this is how it works. Animals are food and on the food chain it would appear that humans are at the top of the pyramid. Though admittedly not always the smartest on the planet. I do what I have to do. I gave all posters a way to save all their beloved 'wild horses'. Do I stand around and watch a coyote suffer? No, but I also dont chase it through the timber after shooting it as I would a deer. Not worth it. On a working farm time is money, you don't sleep in and you actually work all day. I return at least once a month to fix fence, cut hay, seed ground, bushog, check ponds, burn piles of junk and when in season hunt. Work comes first by far though and it doesn't mean sitting in front of the pc or even flying the plane I use to get there and buzz the farm with to announce my arrival to family.

The horses have an out, but I again will not take care of them. I earn the same amount as now off the land and its all yours for a 99 year lease.

Originally posted by just_a_pilot
Lady, I will make it simple for you also. In the real world this is how it works. Animals are food and on the food chain it would appear that humans are at the top of the pyramid.

Hmmm, no noe ever said it was different Where do you read that into this thread?
[quote[]If it is a clean shot then so much the better. If I shot it in the gut and It wasnt a clean shot then it does suffer ( except for a coyote, good for nothing mange carrying disease ridden and sickness infested creatures they are
if you don't want to give off the impression, or if your not the type of person that enjoys the suffering of wildlife, perhaps you could choose your wording more carefully, so as not give the impression to others......

Gotcha. No problem. I understand what you mean. I also believe it is a difference in growing up around a farm and animals as opposed to never being near them yet 'loving' them.

Originally posted by just_a_pilot
I also believe it is a difference in growing up around a farm and animals as opposed to never being near them yet 'loving' them.

Nope...sorry! I lived on a farm as kid, family members have farms, I've seen the workings of a farm from slaughtering to milking...my sister has a horse farm, Walkers & Quarter horses. I work with animals for a living and have for over 18 years now.....part of that in Vet Teching....I'm 50 years old I am not naive on this subject.

I was not refering to you specifically as you stated earlier you lived on a farm. I was speaking of others who seem to post that have no idea what happens on one. For instance my sister is 15 and thinks its terrible we don't let dogs in the house.

Originally posted by just_a_pilot
For instance my sister is 15 and thinks its terrible we don't let dogs in the house.

I let my dogs in the house, hell I sleep with my dogs....all four....do you have only outside guarding dogs?

Nahh, I have ( well my ex has now ) a golden named maggie. She goes inside. The others are hunting hounds and they stay in the barn and roam at night.

Well, since this thread is on the front page again, and since it is drifting, let me reiterate:

Horses (and coyotes) are indigenous to the Americas. Horses are the foundation of modern industrial society, and we owe them respect for helping us to build the modern world. They live on land that is the property of the American Indians, and should not be 'managed' by US corporate or government interests without the Native Governments being involved. I am both an Indian and a former rancher. Respect the Horse.

Look the bottom line is this: From your own save the horsie campaign. The HORSE YOU KNOW IS NOT NATIVE OF NORTH AMERICA. Shut yer pie hole for a minute and READ. The Eohippus was about the size of a DOG and was extinct in North America about 10 million years ago and the Przewalski horse looks like a damn burro.. THE HORSES IN THE BLM ARE IMPORTS! Jeezusss these horses are FERAL meaning domesticated that ran away from home. Also realize that when these horses give birth a staggering number of 'babies' are rounded up. Too many horses.

Horses are bred by humans for use as food. Meat from (injured) horses that vets have put down with a lethal injection is not used for consumption: the carcasses of such animals are cremated. In Europe horses are specially raised for their meat. These horses run wild and are not trained as carriage animals. In 2001, people consumed an estimated 153,000 tonnes of horse meat worldwide.

In the late palaeolithic (Magdalenien) wild horses formed an important source of food.

Horse meat is often of very good quality. It can be tender, and is low in fat and high in protein, something that has led to its being popular among body builders. Horse meat has a slightly sweet taste that some find distasteful, but that can be disguised with seasoning and spices.

Today many European countries, including France, Italy, Romania and Belgium, produce and consume horse meat.

In France specialized butcher shops (boucheries chevalines) sell horsemeat, as ordinary butcher shops do not have the right to deal in it. According to legend, the French taste for horse meat dates from the Battle of Eylau in 1807, when the surgeon-in-chief of Napoleon's Grand Army, Baron Dominique-Jean Larrey, advised the starving troops to eat the flesh of dead battlefield horses. The cavalry used breastplates as cooking pans and gunpowder as seasoning, and thus founded a tradition.

During World War II, due to the low supply and high price of beef, the state of New Jersey legalized the sale of horse meat. At war's end, the state again prohibited such sale�some say in response to pressure from the beef lobby.

Originally posted by just_a_pilot
Look the bottom line is this: From your own save the horsie campaign. The HORSE YOU KNOW IS NOT NATIVE OF NORTH AMERICA. Shut yer pie hole for a minute and READ.

Oh man I love it when a plan comes together.

If you considered these horses NATIVE, would that give them higher status?

The horse I know migrated to Asia, across Europe, into Spanish ships and back to its point of origin. To meet its ancestors, just_like_you.

Our version of His Story is different, j_a_p. As are our morals and values.

Respect this magnificent animal. Protect wild horses!

[edit on 28-12-2004 by Chakotay]

Ah Chakotay. You may want to check with your tribal elders before spouting off. Even they talk of the tribe AFTER the introduction of the HORSE.

Also look at the Nez Perce horses for sale by your own people Wonder how many go to slaughter. It seems your own people percieve them as $ signs also. You see, even the Nez Perce can see that money talks and bull shi walks. Hence the two casinos the tribe owns.

www.nezpercehorseregistry.com...

You may phone Anthony D. Johnson at (208) 843-2253 to inquire as to this travesty of history YOUR people wrote. Guess he is the big chief.

[edit on 12/28/2004 by just_a_pilot]

Originally posted by just_a_pilot
Ah Chakotay. You may want to check with your tribal elders before spouting off. Even they talk of the tribe AFTER the introduction of the HORSE.

I think you know nothing of our native ways and that you should study before spouting off! Times change with knowledge....I hear all the time, such stupidity as "Native Americans killed and ate meat" well duh! We also have/had respect for those things that gave their life for us to sustain ourselves, and we are quite aware of our world being out of balance due to the disrespect of nature....sometimes, it's a matter of in which way things are done!

I haven't read all the replies, and I am probably hopping in prematurely, that being said....


If you think that the BLM round up and slaughter is bad, look at the racehorses who do not run well. Do you think they go out to pasture and frolic the rest of their lives? No, they are sent for meat if they are not desireable for retraining as a hunter/jumper, dressage or 3 day horse.

I ran/owned a hunter/jumper farm and bought horses from the killer sales and the meat man. I got them by the pound. I retrained them and resold them. That was the biggest money maker I had and the only thing that kept my farm above water financially. No one else wanted these horses and Thoroughbred meat is the most desireable of all the horseflesh. Much higher meat content per lb vs other horses who have heavier bone.

There are some horses that do not need to be riding horses or even pets. There is a place for slaughter. I would not want to see it outlawed. IF it is outlawed, who is going to care for all the pretty, yet insane horses? Or the lame ones?? There are plenty out there. I DID send ONE horse to a trader as he was too dangerous for me to resale. I was not going to be responsible for someone getting hurt on him.

The mare in my avatar is out of an off the track thoroughbred who was lame. Very good conformation though and a sweet temperament. Her owner gave her to me, so she got a job of being a mother. Gave me an *incredible* baby from a Trakehner stallion. She went on to another owner and made babies out of Hanoverians for her. All the babies are athletic and personable. She would have gone to the killlers though otherwise.

I had a mare that was a grandaughter of Secretariat, she was a sabino(a coat pattern) and a red roan. She also had a flaxen mane and tail that was curly! I bought her for almost nothing from the meat dealer. she was sound and her conformation was incredible for a dressage horse. That is what she went on to be and she was double registered later as a paint.

My concerns tend to go more to the ex racehorses and horse we intentionally breed over the ones that are wild. I feel like we have more of a responsibility to those we intentionally create.

It is my understanding though that if a horse has a BLM freeze brand under their mane they may not be auctioned off for meat. I am sure it happens occasoinally, but most of the dealers will not bid on them. Not worth the trouble at the packing plants.

I am an animal lover. I have dogs, fish and horses. I abhor the mistreatment of them. I do know there have been significant changes in the way they are transported and slaughtered. And many of the packing plants have closed down. The price of horsemeat has plummetted and you can pick up a horse for about 40 cents a pound, at least the last time I heard. Maybe it has come up this winter(I doubt it)

Adopting a wild mustang is not an easy thing to do though. The young ones can turn into decent riding horses, but it takes someone really trained in retraining wild horses to get the adult ones truly safe for average riders

ll, I will have to agree with you there. It would be near impossible for me to put down my daughters horse than a 'wild' one. I have done it but for some reason its not to easy.

I read the rest of the replies, and a couple more points.

On Horse's being "broke" I have "started" MANY horses, most do actually like being ridden. Many LOVE to go to shows. My current horse can be ALOT of horse, though she is a loving and kind mare. She loves me and she loves my children. My son has issues with one of his legs and he has fallen and grabbed her by the nose to steady himself. That is something that normally, a horse would jump back from. She sat and waited for him to regain his balance and just kept looking at him with ears forward, in a loving way.

She nickers to me when I see her. She asks to be petted and paid attention to. She enjoys being ridden. I must state though that I am very careful that the saddle fits correctly and doesn't pinch or create sore spots. I am still with my hands and if I do carry a whip, it is only to reinforce my aids(as in a tap that would not hurt bare human skin) I rarely need to carry a whip as she is a bit hot and does honestly try. I NEVER use a whip in anger for punishment.

I use mild and high quality bits. I do not ever yank on a horses mouth for punishment. I rub them down well before and after a ride. Sometimes just because I want them to be nice and shiny. My horses have all enjoyed being ridden due to this. Almost none of my horses have bucked or reared when I started them. I do it slowly and not like you see in cowboy movies. It is a gradual process.

If a horse is treated well and not in pain, they enjoy people and being ridden. I have had horses that get so excited to see a trailer because it meant one of two things a show, or a mountain trail ride. They would literally pull me to the trailer to get on.

As far as eating meat, I like beef and chicken. I do have to admit I can't eat fish due to watching my grandfather skinning one. It upset me as a 6 year old and it is something I like the taste of, but just can't. I have seen chickens heads cut off(grandfather again) but for some reason, that didn't bother me as much, go figure.

PETA is as about as bad as the slaughter houses they rail against. By being so out there their message is lost and people tune them out. Extremists are never good for a cause. Do you think abortion bombers help stop abortions by blowing up things?? I can't imagine so.

I have a friend who shows dogs. The dogs MUST be kept inside the motor homes or in the hotel rooms vs the air conditioned/heated vans or pens as PETA often lets them loose. Gee, that is sure doing some good. Setting them free to be hit by cars. That is sure humane!

So, a vegan I will never be, but I do buy free range chicken(which is about 3x's as much) as much for the ethical part as for the health benefits. We buy part of a cow from our cleaning lady as we know how she and her family keeps their animals and the slaughterhouse is clean and humane. It isn't doing much, but it makes me feel better. We *are* omnivores as a species and we do need animal protein. We can go without it, but it is a healthy part of our diet.

Yes, there are abuses to animals on all levels. In homes, on farms, in packing plants. Not in all though. I hate to see it, I hate to hear about it. My animals live like kings and are happy to be living with us.

Around here, when a horse dies, it is buried by backhoe. Not cremated. I don't know where we could even get that service. Maybe the vet school