It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

My thoughts on the CIA Torture "revelations"

page: 6
4
<< 3  4  5    7  8  9 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Dec, 10 2014 @ 05:36 PM
link   
a reply to: Grovit

I applaud you in speaking your mind be means of not caring what people think of you.

I will warn you though, be careful of the venue. I lost a rather lucrative job because of speaking out against a former VPOTUS, even in a minor way. There can be repercussions.

With regards to taking someone as prisoner where they surrender, I feel that it depends on the situation. In that situation, can one afford the consequences of showing mercy? What if one person surrenders, but others take that as am opportunity to strike against you? Mercy is always preferable in my book, but I feel it must be used cautiously.


- NF




posted on Dec, 10 2014 @ 05:48 PM
link   

originally posted by: nullafides
a reply to: JohnnyCanuck
I do smile whenever I see a Canadian pointing the foibles of Americans. It seems to be as much of a national past time of the citizens of the UK and drinking
Hey, we share a long border and a whole lot of history and culture. I enjoy visiting the States, and I've covered more of the country than most Americans. I like Americans. But I'm always happy to get home.


originally posted by: Logarock
Sweet Madam Blue gaze in the looking glass your not a child anymore.
Ah Styx...now with a Canadian lead singer!


originally posted by: nullafides
a reply to: ScientificRailgun
In my point of view, there is never an option off of the table in these circumstances.
So, like I said, you Americans hanged Japanese after WW2 for the crime of waterboarding GIs. At what point did it become ok for you to do it? Further, I have not seen a discussion pointing out that it appears to be bad form to waterboard white folks...but the rules seem to change when they are Brown or Asian.

edit on 10-12-2014 by JohnnyCanuck because: ...just because, eh?



posted on Dec, 10 2014 @ 05:52 PM
link   
a reply to: Logarock

A puking event, I agree. From both the standpoint of the interrogations/imprisonment/torture, as well as the actions and consequences of all parties involved.

And yes, the moral piety being displayed is something to be considered and reflected upon carefully.


-NF



posted on Dec, 10 2014 @ 05:58 PM
link   
a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

I've been over a major portion of the US as well. Born in St. Louis, raised as a boy in Anchorage AK. I've lived in rural areas here, as well as major cities. I have been to Canada many times, and found the citizens there to be abundantly warm and welcoming....

I've also been to a great many countries outside the US, something many Americans have not done, or could not have done due to the cost and logistics involved.

Styx, great band! Domo arigato! But to me, RUSH is King!!!!


Yepp, America has committed atrocities in the name of righteous nationalism. Many other nations, if not all, have done the same. Rules of warfare are an antiquated ideal, I'm afraid. This is of course, my opinion. No, two wrongs do not make a right. But, war is an act of rage. It is at some times necessary. And in my opinion, this means the more disgusting aspects of it as well.

I am not necessarily proud to be an American. But truthfully, I'm not that certain I'd be "proud" to be of any nation. We all have blood on our hands, each and every nation and it's citizens.


- NF



posted on Dec, 10 2014 @ 06:06 PM
link   
a reply to: nullafides

You are quite correct, every nation has blood on it's hands. I used to consider myself a proud American. And while I still love America (at least, it's original founding ideas), after some deep introspection I think I'm ready to become a Japanese citizen.

The U.S. to me as a child was a very noble and humanitarian society, giving an example to the rest of the world on how a proper society should function. While I still want that childish side of me to be correct, as I grew up I learned that things are not always as I had been taught. The U.S. does some pretty terrible things, and for pretty flimsy reasons.

Of course, this doesn't mean other nations haven't done the same, but having been taught in a very conservative country in New Mexico at a school that still held daily prayer after the pledge of allegiance, I became disillusioned when I found out that the U.S. was not the shining bastion of Democracy that I once though it was.



posted on Dec, 10 2014 @ 06:44 PM
link   
a reply to: ScientificRailgun


I too am highly disillusioned with our nation.

While not raised to be a "Red White & Blue Blooded American", I was taught to respect our nation and it's foundations. Countless betrayals from elected officials has sullied this view in my mind. Not necessarily betrayals from an active standpoint (treason, for instance) , but the standard rhetorical promises that are worth no more than the carbon dioxide exhaled when the promises were made.

To this day it still sickens me when I see a tattered flag flying, as it should have been immediately taken down and burned according to custom and respect to what it stands for. This is what I raised to believe in.

Take a look at the american flags you drive by. A close look. And see just how many are tattered or stained or torn. I see this as being an excellent analogy for the current state of affairs in our nation.


- NF



posted on Dec, 10 2014 @ 08:46 PM
link   
a reply to: JohnnyCanuck




posted on Dec, 10 2014 @ 09:41 PM
link   

originally posted by: aorAki

originally posted by: tetra50


Just saying. In the short run, the info prob saved a lot of lives.



It probably also cost a lot of lives, or don't the North Vietnamese count?


Of course they do. The Op clearly addresses the use of torture being justified in wartime, and suggests one side over another, again, quite clearly. Americans weren't strapping bombs to children, I don't think. I could be wrong. The point to many was working towards disarming everyone, and stopping that.

If you wish to engage in an argument that will get us nowhere, here and obfuscates the issue then do so without me. The rest of my reply clearly speaks of the reasons and validity or lack there of, of being in these wars to begin with….



posted on Dec, 11 2014 @ 09:33 AM
link   

originally posted by: nullafides
a reply to: yeahright

"You don't fight evil by bringing yourself down to their level".


War.

If you fight, or more correctly, HAVE to fight, you need to fight to win. Do what it takes.

I apologize for not being able to agree, and I respect your opinion. I just cannot help but feel it is a naive opinion. I mean no disrespect with that, please do not take it that way.


-NF


As a former Marine, I agree that sometimes one must fight. And when one fights one must annihilate the enemy. However I will NEVER believe that torture is beneficial in any way, nor is it acceptable, nor is it crucial to mission accomplishment.

Why should we adhere to the rules if the other guy doesn't??? Because we're the good guys. At least that's what we're told.



posted on Dec, 11 2014 @ 10:10 AM
link   

originally posted by: kelbtalfenek
As a former Marine, I agree that sometimes one must fight. And when one fights one must annihilate the enemy. However I will NEVER believe that torture is beneficial in any way, nor is it acceptable, nor is it crucial to mission accomplishment.

Why should we adhere to the rules if the other guy doesn't??? Because we're the good guys. At least that's what we're told.
Well said! (a mere star was not enough comment on your post).



posted on Dec, 11 2014 @ 10:23 AM
link   

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck
Further, I have not seen a discussion pointing out that it appears to be bad form to waterboard white folks...but the rules seem to change when they are Brown or Asian.


Moot point, IMO.
Ethnically Arab people are a part of the Caucasian subgroup of human beings, along with "white folks".

There are some "white folks" in ISIS and Al-Qaeda though, that if taken alive, certainly would be tortured.



posted on Dec, 11 2014 @ 11:54 AM
link   

originally posted by: r0xor

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck
Further, I have not seen a discussion pointing out that it appears to be bad form to waterboard white folks...but the rules seem to change when they are Brown or Asian.
Moot point, IMO.
Ethnically Arab people are a part of the Caucasian subgroup of human beings, along with "white folks".
Frankly, I think that is a moot point. It's been broadly observed that it was not Germany that was nuked in '45...it was the 'yellow race'. It's easier to dehumanise people that don't look like you, and I believe this to be a factor at play in these current revelations.

Further, I think the American (and by extension, Canadian) public were being softened up by shows like '24', which I stopped watching when the subtext became too apparent to ignore. We're supposed to be better than that.



posted on Dec, 11 2014 @ 12:13 PM
link   
This torture news is over ten years old.
It is the result of a Democrat funded study.
The bottom line is that there will be no
investigation of criminal charges by the
ruling party (Obama) because there is
nothing there to be charged.

The torture, happened and the CIA is taken the position that these EIM

(Enhanced Interrogation Methods) resulted in intelligence that
eventually led to the location of OBL and his ultimate death.

Obama made a lot of political points for killing OBL so again
there is nothing here but a little smoke.

I will assure you that it will be business as usual.

The people we tortured are currently televising the
beheading of journalists, missionaries and Christian children.
Crocodile tears is all there are that remain.



posted on Dec, 11 2014 @ 12:20 PM
link   
a reply to: yeahright

Agreed. To resort to such tactics makes us no better than the terrorists and damages our relationship with tenuous allies.

We have to maintain our integrity and humanity or the terrorist win.



posted on Dec, 11 2014 @ 01:17 PM
link   

originally posted by: kosmicjack
a reply to: yeahright

Agreed. To resort to such tactics makes us no better than the terrorists and damages our relationship with tenuous allies.

We have to maintain our integrity and humanity or the terrorist win.







And right there is where you'll lose the fight. No matter what the cause is.




-NF



posted on Dec, 11 2014 @ 01:20 PM
link   
a reply to: nullafides
The ANGELS must have larger claws then the Demons...



posted on Dec, 11 2014 @ 01:20 PM
link   
a reply to: kelbtalfenek

With all do respect for your opinion as a Marine who served our nation, and my sincere thanks for doing so...

We have all been "told" something in our lives. We've been told alot.

Being told something is not the same thing as the truth. Neither are ideals.

That being said, I've also connected with all the Marines I know, both in and out of active service. To a one they all agreed that while vile, interrogation and torture as the means of such, is a necessary thing.

I concur.

Again, thank you for your service. I will be eternally grateful to you for that.


-NF



posted on Dec, 11 2014 @ 01:21 PM
link   
a reply to: Ophiuchus 13

But you still have to conduct yourself professionally to set example and not cause further rippling effects of negativity. Its not a easy position to hold when protecting others...



posted on Dec, 11 2014 @ 01:28 PM
link   

originally posted by: Ophiuchus 13
a reply to: nullafides
The ANGELS must have larger claws then the Demons...


If you believe in such a thing, I guess they should. I assume you're saying that Angels should be better than Demons...yet, the analogy you're using suggests the opposite. Just an observation, not an affront.

We, however, are humans. And, on top of that, we are animals. With animal instincts. The only difference is that sometimes some of us use our brains.

When others don't, and peaceful means are no longer viable, you have to either go all in, or suffer the consequences.



- NF



posted on Dec, 11 2014 @ 01:29 PM
link   
a reply to: Ophiuchus 13

Or....

Once the theatrics are over, and all reasonable efforts at peace have been made...

You fight to win.



-NF




top topics



 
4
<< 3  4  5    7  8  9 >>

log in

join