A Clear Presentation of the Gospel

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: graphuto

Right...

the heart of the earth would be well known as a place with lots of fire and such... a place of purification

Now would you like to rethink the whole Jesus going to the center of the earth thing?

or would you prefer to remain in such ridiculous delusions...

What are you even talking about? Are you suggesting that hell and baptism by fire are the same thing? I certainly never made that claim...

a reply to: graphuto

oh this will be fun..

Was God speaking the universe into existence metaphorical?

I don't know... and neither do you

Was people living for 900 years metaphorical?

No... it was simply nonsense

Were the plagues and subsequent leading of the people out of Egypt metaphorical?

not a shred of proof the israelites were EVER captive in Egypt... archeologists have been searching for years...

So that would be a myth...

Were the laws, ordinances, and commandments that people had to follow metaphorical?

No im sure they were real, just not given by God... they wer given by men with agendas

The Kings that ruled over the people, and the Chronicles of the kingdoms, were those all metaphorical?

Do you know what a metaphor is or are you just looking for silly examples?

At the very least there is some evidence for some of the kings written about iin the bible... soloman, David... theres evidence.... so obviously no

The story of Job. Metaphorical?

Can't even believe you asked that... the story of job is nonsense.... in fact it is the epitome of the word

Where does it end? You either believe the Bible and call on the name of the Lord to grant you eternal life, or you don't.

I would say it ends when Christians wake up to reality... its happening slowly... but as I've said many times before...2000 years from now there will be Christians preaching about the end of the world and the second coming...

and people like me trying to get people to wake up to reality...

What are you even talking about? Are you suggesting that hell and baptism by fire are the same thing? I certainly never made that claim...

Im saying some things are myth and legend.... some are metaphorical... and some things are reality in that book

and you like many other Christians, are very confused as to which is which.... so instead of trying to figure it out... you just take everything literal and call it Gods word... which its not

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: LittleByLittle

there ye go... theres at least two references

One in matthew and one in luke... google it hun...

Which, In any case creates a problem...

Either John was lying about it... or he meant it in a metaphorical sense

I wonder which

That was unfruitfull.

The light do create heat, cold and vibration inside a body depending on the body and the need fluctuating in the body. I think they are talking about the Kundalini fire and higher energized body states that can occur from intense light flow, but there might be another dimension/meaning to the wording also.

But there is no real reference in the bible of the techniques John the baptist and Jesus used I get no real insight on how they flowed the light.

Namaste

a reply to: Akragon

Considering your position and wanting some more insight into your mind :

Just for the sake of my question, ssume that the Bible IS true, it's ALL true. What do you say to God as you stand at the judgement seat?
Keeping in mind that you've been brow-beaten with the truth for your entire life.
What would you even say?

a reply to: LittleByLittle

Try matthew 6:22

originally posted by: graphuto
a reply to: Akragon

Considering your position and wanting some more insight into your mind :

Just for the sake of my question, ssume that the Bible IS true, it's ALL true. What do you say to God as you stand at the judgement seat?
Keeping in mind that you've been brow-beaten with the truth for your entire life.
What would you even say?

im not worried about that because I know the bible isn't entirely true... after 12 years of studying it... things have become quite clear in that respect...

But just to humour you...

I would say "Father have mercy and forgive your lowly servant... I was wrong"

On the other hand... You seem to believe the OT is Gods word...

So even if you said the same thing... you know where you'd be headed...

that so called god knows not forgiveness...

a reply to: Akragon

That's not really an acceptable answer, you kinda wriggled through that without giving me the honest truth there.

Assume that you already know without a shadow of a doubt that you're going to hell for eternal torment, and God is asking you to account for all the times you've blasphemed his Word, and led people to hell, etc. etc...

Would you really even say ANYTHING to Him? I'd have to say that if I were in the same position, I wouldn't even be able to speak.... My mind would be flooded with the countless times I'd been browbeaten with the truth, and rejected it, and rejected it, and rejected it, and blasphemed His name, and His actions, His Words, His people, etc..etc.....
Aside from the physical suffering of hell..... I can't even imagine anything worse than that.......

Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Mathew 10:28

First death body. Second death soul.

The punishment is eternal in the sense you have no hope of salvation because you have been utterly destroyed.

In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power. 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9

Destruction that is everlasting. Not everlasting torment. That wouldn't be destruction. Once something is destroyed it's gone forever. Or as scripture puts it, eternal.

The LORD preserves all who love Him, but all the wicked He will destroy. Psalm 145:20

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23

Wouldn't everlasting existence in Hell still count as... eternal life? Obviously it would be far less enjoyable but still.. eternal. Yet that's not consistent with "the wages of sin is death" is it?

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16

"perish" a.k.a. destroy both soul and body in hell.
"eternal life" a.k.a. heaven everlasting.

Enter through the narrow gate, for wide is the gate and broad the road that leads to destruction and many enter through it, but small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. Mathew 7:13-14

"leads to destruction" e.g. of the body and soul.
"road that leads to life" e.g. eternal life

We are so persuaded of our position, and so confident in the Scriptural evidence presented on this site, that we honestly do not believe that anyone who shares our faith in the final authority of Scripture will be able to cling to endless torment after reading this entire site and the links.

LINK

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: LittleByLittle

Try matthew 6:22

22"The eye is the lamp of the body; so then if your eye is clear, your whole body will be full of light.

23"But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light that is in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!

24"No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth.

That can both be a reference to the third eye or view point from my point of view.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

It's not that you're destroyed eternally. It's that the destroying takes place over an eternity.

And if your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the eternal fire

Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example, in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire

And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever

And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."


What says your argument to that, good sir?

a reply to: graphuto

that is because you have been brainwashed to live in fear of God my friend...

I do not fear a wrathful God as you do... I do not fear a literal hell as you do...

And I know what Jesus said... Faith alone does not Cut it.... unlike what Paul will tell you...

Hell does not exist, but even if it did... I have no reason to fear going there...

perhaps if you knew me outside of ATS you might understand why...

You base your beliefs around fear... the only reason you have those beliefs is because of fear...

I do not live in fear... and I do not fear God... (yes I know the OT quote... don't bother)

And the bottom line is this... I follow the gospels... Not Paul... not the OT...

Just him...

a reply to: graphuto

Painfully weak counter argument.

How is that destruction?

If it takes place over an eternity it will NEVER happen.

I rebuke thee!

a reply to: Akragon

You still haven't answered my sincere question. This is the root of the matter, in my opinion. The core of it all.

The fear of the Lord is a pretty consistent theme from Genesis to Revelation.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

I literally laughed out loud.

a reply to: graphuto

I already told you what I would say...

what do you want from me?

I would be guilty... period... and I would rely solely on the mercy of the one I serve

The fear of the Lord is a pretty consistent theme from Genesis to Revelation.

Can you expect anything less from a collection of documents designed to promote fear?

Doubt it

a reply to: Akragon

I'm asking you to put yourself in that hypothetical situation for a second, realize the guilt and weight and torment of it all, and then give me some sort of honest response, I guess.

If there is even a .000001% chance (which is probably higher, statistically, than the odds it took for "evolution" to get us here) that that could happen to you, why not just believe the Bible?

Here are some of the verses that reflect a geocentric model.

Then spoke Joshua to the Lord in the day when the Lord gave the Amorites over to the men of Israel; and he said in the sight of Israel, "Sun, stand thou still at Gibeon, and thou Moon in the valley of Aijalon." And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the nation took vengeance on their enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jashar? The sun stayed in the midst of heaven, and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day. Joshua 10:12-13

The sun and moon stood still in their habitation at the light of thine arrows as they sped, at the flash of thy glittering spear. Habakkuk 3:11

Yet their voice goes out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them he has set a tent for the sun, which comes forth like a bridegroom leaving his chamber, and like a strong man runs his course with joy. Its rising is from the end of the heavens, and its circuit to the end of them; and there is nothing hid from its heat. Psalms 19:4-6

The sun rises and the sun goes down, and hastens to the place where it rises. Ecclesiastes 1:5

Tremble before him, all earth; yea, the world stands firm, never to be moved. 1 Chronicles 16:30

The Lord reigns; he is robbed in majesty; the lord is robbed, he is girded with strength. Yea, the world is established; it shall never be moved. Psalms 93:1

Say among the nations, "The Lord reigns! Yea, the world is established, it shall never be moved; he will judge the peoples with equity." Psalms 96:10

a reply to: graphuto

Makes sense.

It's about all you can do besides admit you were wrong about hell.

originally posted by: graphuto
a reply to: Akragon

I'm asking you to put yourself in that hypothetical situation for a second, realize the guilt and weight and torment of it all, and then give me some sort of honest response, I guess.

Which is exactly what I have given you...

now lets turn the table...

Suppose you finally realise that a good portion of the bible is wrong... and designed to lead people to Hell....

What would you say when you stand in front of God, and he says... Remember that guy with the Cat Avatar on your forum... he was right by the way.... the gospels ARE the only documents in your book that are trustable...

What would you say?

In any case this is silly...

If there is even a .000001% chance (which is probably higher, statistically, than the odds it took for "evolution" to get us here) that that could happen to you, why not just believe the Bible?

that's pretty easy actually...

even though evolution is not perfect... (which I don't subscribe to anyways)

it still makes a lot more sense then the creation story... IF evolution's chances are .00001%

where does that leave a document written millenia ago....

and the answer is...0%

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

I quoted 5 or 6 verses to your 2 or 3 and even explained to you that the destruction takes an eternity. Eternal torment and destruction, where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

I laughed out loud at the way you said "I rebuke thee! "